Joe wrote:
So your saying we should of waited, let Saddam attack us.. or pay
someone to attack us... before we acted?

Even with the whole world demanding that saddam prove he dis-armed? And
Saddam telling the world to get ****ed and throwing out the inspectors?
We should of waited..

No wonder you guys let the govt take your guns away.

Joe

The inspectors didn't get thrown out. The US didn't give them enough
time to confirm there was nothing to be found.

Why he invaded Iraq remains a mistery .... perhaps even to Bush.

Vito... I think not.

I believe Irag has the third largest natural oil reserve in the world.

And we have a Texas oil man (and cronies) in high office.

Hmmmm....

Bill

"Gary" wrote in message

The inspectors didn't get thrown out. The US didn't give them enough time
to confirm there was nothing to be found.

Sure Gary... next thing you'll claim that Iraq wasn't involved in 911!
..... or that Saddam had no intention of attacking the USA!!

Americans are the most welcomed and loved people on the entire planet. They
are the last bastions of freedom and peace. The USA single-handedly won both
world wars. If it wasn't for the USA we'd all be speaking Gerpan or Japman!!
Now they are fighting the crusade for proper Christian beliefs!

Bless Them

CM

"Scout" wrote
The chapter on Iraq is still being written.

True, but indications are we are in deep trouble.

Religious fundamentalism is the enemy of all mankind. Europeans were afraid
to explore west because the church told them they would sail off the edge of
the world - never mind that ancient Egyptians and Greeks had not only
determined that Earth was round but estimated its diameter. Israel almost
died abirthing when Jewish fundamentalists demanded that the rest stop
defending themselves for Sabbath (Fortunately they didn't listen).
Scientists know that the Earth will become another Easter Island if we do
not limit population but only the "Godless Communists" in China are doing
so. Here in the US faith is triumphing over logic and common sense and we
are poised to again outlaw birth control and abortion.

We encouraged Muslim fundamentalism because it was primarily directed at
'Godless Communism' and the USSR in Afghanistan. Now that buzzard has come
home to roost.

Saddam was ruthless dictator but a secular Muslim. As such, he opposed the
Islamic fundamentalists in Iran and Afghanistan. When religious
fundamentalists among Iraq's Shiite sect turned on him, at the behest of
like extremists in Iran, he murdered them, filling mass graves - then went
to war with fundamentalist Iran. And when bin Laden and his al Qaeda
fighters tapped Saddam for money and training camps he not only refused but
began systematically killing anyone associated with them caught in Iraq
(Zuqari survived hidden by Saddams' own son). Iraq had long claimed that
Kuwait was Iraqi property and invaded it, largely to recoup the costs of war
with extremist Iran. This unsettled other Arab nations, who thought they
might b next. So, the UN, led by the USA put a stop to this adventure - and
ordered Saddam to get rid of any WMDs that he had previously had and used.
Up til then, he had as legit a right to them as, say, Israel.

The "invasion" of the "Holy Peninsula" and the killing of Muslims by the
"army of infidels" that freed Kuwait infuriated Muslim fundamentalists. Bin
Ladin himself says that is why his army of religious nutcases attacked the
USA and other countries, including the 9-11 attacks.

For reasons nobody understands, George Bush Jr attacked Iraq to depose
Saddam. Saddam no longer had any WMDs and, except for paying widows
pensions to Palestinians attacking Israel, took no part in terrorism. He and
bin Ladin were bitter enemies over his refusal to help al Qaeda. And he was
eager to sell all the oil he could pump. So why - to establish a western
democracy in the region??

That might have worked if we'd sent enough troops to lock down all the ammo
dumps, banks, museums and other places that got looted, and to capture the
al Qaeda terrorists fleeing the Afghan tribesmen via Iran, but we did not.
So with Saddam gone they found a nice home and are killing two or three
Americans every day.

Progress? Predictably, Shiite fundamentalists elected a big plurality in
the new assembly and in turn devised a new constitution that will give Iraq
a democracy, but not a western democracy. Oh no, it's one just like Iran's,
where the people elect a powerless parliament and the country is run by -
guess what - religious fundamentalists friendly to al Qaeda and other fundy
terrorists!! And next month they will elect their parliament and it will
appoint the fundamentallist mullahs who will rule thereafter.

But, as Scout says, that chapter has yet to be written. But I'd bet on the
fundies ......

"Capt.Mooron" wrote
Now they are fighting the crusade for proper Christian beliefs!

That's the most logical reason for attacking Iraq I've heard so far .....

"Joe" wrote ...
So your saying we should of waited, let Saddam attack us.. or pay
someone to attack us... before we acted?

There's no evidence he planned to do that. He 'd been fighting Islamic
fundies in Iran and his own country and was too broke to do that even if he
wanted to. His survival depended on US help. Since we were fighting the
same enemies it was only logical for us to leave him in power.

"Dave" wrote
"Vito" said:

thanks to
an effective intel organization put in place by previous presidents.

Hey, you could prolly get a gig doing stand-up comedy on Jay Leno with
lines
like that.

Prolly - but who do you think got the Afghans to oust the Taliban if not "an
effective intel organization" and who do you believe fostered that
organization if not previous presidents? Bush hadn't had time too do it and
his record with "intellegence" is pretty spotty.

Amen!


"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Capt.Mooron" wrote
Now they are fighting the crusade for proper Christian beliefs!

That's the most logical reason for attacking Iraq I've heard so far .....

SHUT UP , Ozzhole!!!!!!!!!!!!


OzOne wrote ....
nothing worth reading, again.
Oz

What a Difference Four Years Makes
Why U.N. inspectors left Iraq--then and now




"The U.N. orders its weapons inspectors to leave Iraq after the chief
inspector reports Baghdad is not fully cooperating with them."

-- Sheila MacVicar, ABC World News This Morning, 12/16/98


"To bolster its claim, Iraq let reporters see one laboratory U.N.
inspectors once visited before they were kicked out four years ago."

--John McWethy, ABC World News Tonight, 8/12/02




"The Iraq story boiled over last night when the chief U.N. weapons
inspector, Richard Butler, said that Iraq had not fully cooperated with
inspectors and--as they had promised to do. As a result, the U.N.
ordered its inspectors to leave Iraq this morning"

--Katie Couric, NBC's Today, 12/16/98


"As Washington debates when and how to attack Iraq, a surprise offer
from Baghdad. It is ready to talk about re-admitting U.N. weapons
inspectors after kicking them out four years ago."

--Maurice DuBois, NBC's Saturday Today, 8/3/02




"The chief U.N. weapons inspector ordered his monitors to leave Baghdad
today after saying that Iraq had once again reneged on its promise to
cooperate--a report that renewed the threat of U.S. and British
airstrikes."

--AP, 12/16/98


"Information on Iraq's programs has been spotty since Saddam expelled
U.N. weapons inspectors in 1998."

--AP, 9/7/02




"Immediately after submitting his report on Baghdad's noncompliance,
Butler ordered his inspectors to leave Iraq."

--Los Angeles Times, 12/17/98


"It is not known whether Iraq has rebuilt clandestine nuclear
facilities since U.N. inspectors were forced out in 1998, but the
report said the regime lacks nuclear material for a bomb and the
capability to make weapons."

--Los Angeles Times, 9/10/02




"The United Nations once again has ordered its weapons inspectors out
of Iraq. Today's evacuation follows a new warning from chief weapons
inspector Richard Butler accusing Iraq of once again failing to
cooperate with the inspectors. The United States and Britain repeatedly
have warned that Iraq's failure to cooperate with the inspectors could
lead to air strikes."

--Bob Edwards, NPR, 12/16/98


"If he has secret weapons, he's had four years since he kicked out the
inspectors to hide all of them."

--Daniel Schorr, NPR, 8/3/02




"This is the second time in a month that UNSCOM has pulled out in the
face of a possible U.S.-led attack. But this time there may be no
turning back. Weapons inspectors packed up their personal belongings
and loaded up equipment at U.N. headquarters after a predawn evacuation
order. In a matter of hours, they were gone, more than 120 of them
headed for a flight to Bahrain."

--Jane Arraf, CNN, 12/16/98


"What Mr. Bush is being urged to do by many advisers is focus on the
simple fact that Saddam Hussein signed a piece of paper at the end of
the Persian Gulf War, promising that the United Nations could have
unfettered weapons inspections in Iraq. It has now been several years
since those inspectors were kicked out."

--John King, CNN, 8/18/02




"Russian Ambassador Sergei Lavrov criticized Butler for evacuating
inspectors from Iraq Wednesday morning without seeking permission from
the Security Council."

--USA Today, 12/17/98


"Saddam expelled U.N. weapons inspectors in 1998, accusing some of
being U.S. spies."

--USA Today, 9/4/02




"But the most recent irritant was Mr. Butler's quick withdrawal from
Iraq on Wednesday of all his inspectors and those of the International
Atomic Energy Agency, which monitors Iraqi nuclear programs, without
Security Council permission. Mr. Butler acted after a telephone call
from Peter Burleigh, the American representative to the United Nations,
and a discussion with Secretary General Kofi Annan, who had also spoken
to Mr. Burleigh."

--New York Times, 12/18/98


"America's goal should be to ensure that Iraq is disarmed of all
unconventional weapons.... To thwart this goal, Baghdad expelled United
Nations arms inspectors four years ago."

--New York Times editorial, 8/3/02




"Butler ordered his inspectors to evacuate Baghdad, in anticipation of
a military attack, on Tuesday night--at a time when most members of the
Security Council had yet to receive his report."

--Washington Post, 12/18/98


"Since 1998, when U.N. inspectors were expelled, Iraq has almost
certainly been working to build more chemical and biological weapons."

--Washington Post editorial, 8/4/02




"Butler abruptly pulled all of his inspectors out of Iraq shortly after
handing Annan a report yesterday afternoon on Baghdad's continued
failure to cooperate with UNSCOM, the agency that searches for Iraq's
prohibited weapons of mass destruction."

-- Newsday, 12/17/98


"The reason Hussein gave was that the U.N. inspectors' work was
completed years ago, before he kicked them out in 1998, and they
dismantled whatever weapons they found. That's disingenuous."

--Newsday editorial, 8/14/02