Keeping a boat on it's feet vs. excessive heeling... that's what you're
saying right? Because zero heel may indicate pinching too much.

I'm not sure what you mean by feathering with respect to light air.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message

Max, what do you believe is important when attempting to point? I think
this is a discussion worth having.

The fine art of pointing encompasses more than just having a boat that
sails closely to the wind. When racing, the weather course made good will
depend upon a number of factors. An adroit skipper can sail a higher CMG
with a boat that doesn't sail as closely to the wind than a poorer skipper
will with a boat that theoretically points higher. Keeping the boat on
its feet (upright) is one factor. Another is maintaining sufficient speed
to be able to periodically feather into the wind without slowing
appreciably. This is where skill really shines. Sailing a high CMG often
requires footing off periodically, especially in light air, to maintain
boat speed to allow feathering and to prevent leeward slippage. Puffs can
enable a boat to point higher as well, provided boat speed is maintained.
Inexperienced skippers tend to pinch when following faster boats--the
perception is that those boats are "pointing" higher than he, so he
pinches in attempt to equal their pointing ability, effectively slowing
himself down and losing ground to leeward. The direction in which the
boat is aimed often has little to do with how well the boat is "pointing."

There's more to it, but that's a good start.

Max

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Keeping a boat on it's feet vs. excessive heeling... that's what you're
saying right? Because zero heel may indicate pinching too much.

No. There is no such thing as zero heel--a boat will always heel when
beating to windward unless it's a small dinghy with a 300lb. skipper and
similarly-sized crew. But limiting the heel to a practical minimum will
generally allow better helm control and less leeway slippage. It also keeps
the sailplan presented to the wind more optimally.

I'm not sure what you mean by feathering with respect to light air.

Feathering is the act of turning the boat into the wind (somewhat) during
puffs and when moving well, but it is done only briefly, with a feel for the
inevitable loss of speed that accompanies such a maneuver. At the first
sign of the boat beginning to slow, the boat is pulled back to its original
course. Learning to feather a boat to windward can make a big difference,
especially when attempting to make a mark that is just above the rhumb line.
Essentially it is the act of trading speed and momentum for pointing
ability. Feathering is difficult in light air, and ill advised in drifter
conditions.

Max

Hmm... well, I think there is a spot when there's zero heel, but it may not
be sustainable upwind. Assuming no current and light wind, it seems like you
would want some heel.

I've always used the term heading up or pinching up. I guess you did say
something about falling off before attempting to heading up.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Keeping a boat on it's feet vs. excessive heeling... that's what you're
saying right? Because zero heel may indicate pinching too much.

No. There is no such thing as zero heel--a boat will always heel when
beating to windward unless it's a small dinghy with a 300lb. skipper and
similarly-sized crew. But limiting the heel to a practical minimum will
generally allow better helm control and less leeway slippage. It also
keeps the sailplan presented to the wind more optimally.

I'm not sure what you mean by feathering with respect to light air.

Feathering is the act of turning the boat into the wind (somewhat) during
puffs and when moving well, but it is done only briefly, with a feel for
the inevitable loss of speed that accompanies such a maneuver. At the
first sign of the boat beginning to slow, the boat is pulled back to its
original course. Learning to feather a boat to windward can make a big
difference, especially when attempting to make a mark that is just above
the rhumb line. Essentially it is the act of trading speed and momentum
for pointing ability. Feathering is difficult in light air, and ill
advised in drifter conditions.

Max

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...

Hmm... well, I think there is a spot when there's zero heel,

I'm open to learning under what conditions this may be true. I can't
conceive of it, however. If the boat is hard on the wind and there IS wind,
a boat will heel, unless it's one of those redundant-hull thingys that Oz
sails.

but it may not be sustainable upwind. Assuming no current and light wind,
it seems like you would want some heel.

You'll always have *some* heel, but minimizing it is advantageous for a
number of reasons. If this weren't true, why all the railmeat on maxi
boats? Dinghies are generally best sailed, in all but very light winds,
with a minimum of heel. Big boats are no different, unless they are
classics with long overhangs which increase effective waterline when heeled.


I've always used the term heading up or pinching up. I guess you did say
something about falling off before attempting to heading up.

I've always interpreted "pinching" as simply sailing too close to the wind.
An example would be a boat with the ability to sail at, say, 30 degrees to
the relative wind. Pinching would be to sail it along at 27 degrees, and
footing would be at 35 degrees, plus or minus. Feathering is, according to
Snipe guru Ted Wells, alternating between footing and pinching, but
maintaining speed by spending only that amount of time pinching that won't
denigrate boat speed significantly. It's an active process, with the
skipper moving the helm quite a bit.

There are some experienced skippers who prefer to find that sweet spot when
hard on the wind, holding the helm very still. I can generally outpoint
them, but they do seem to win their share of races. It's just another
school of thought.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...

Hmm... well, I think there is a spot when there's zero heel,

I'm open to learning under what conditions this may be true. I can't
conceive of it, however. If the boat is hard on the wind and there IS
wind, a boat will heel, unless it's one of those redundant-hull thingys
that Oz sails.

Well, I thought you said that yourself... upwind, very light wind. I would
think that when there's a lull in light wind, the heel would go to zero, if
it wasn't nearly there already. I'm not sure how one would judge that, since
I don't have nor have I seen a tilt meter that accurate.

but it may not be sustainable upwind. Assuming no current and light wind,
it seems like you would want some heel.

You'll always have *some* heel, but minimizing it is advantageous for a
number of reasons. If this weren't true, why all the railmeat on maxi
boats? Dinghies are generally best sailed, in all but very light winds,
with a minimum of heel. Big boats are no different, unless they are
classics with long overhangs which increase effective waterline when
heeled.

I've always used the term heading up or pinching up. I guess you did say
something about falling off before attempting to heading up.

I've always interpreted "pinching" as simply sailing too close to the
wind. An example would be a boat with the ability to sail at, say, 30
degrees to the relative wind. Pinching would be to sail it along at 27
degrees, and footing would be at 35 degrees, plus or minus. Feathering
is, according to Snipe guru Ted Wells, alternating between footing and
pinching, but maintaining speed by spending only that amount of time
pinching that won't denigrate boat speed significantly. It's an active
process, with the skipper moving the helm quite a bit.

Ok... so feathering is zigzagging.

There are some experienced skippers who prefer to find that sweet spot
when hard on the wind, holding the helm very still. I can generally
outpoint them, but they do seem to win their share of races. It's just
another school of thought.

Yup... straight line sailing is faster.. turn = slowing.

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...


Well, I thought you said that yourself... upwind, very light wind. I would
think that when there's a lull in light wind, the heel would go to zero,
if it wasn't nearly there already. I'm not sure how one would judge that,
since I don't have nor have I seen a tilt meter that accurate.

I'm not talking about momentary zero heel, rather zero heel when moving
along hard on the wind. Only rail ballast can effect zero heel, or even
windward heel, in such cases. When racing dinghies in drifter conditons,
most do slightly better if artifically heeled to minimize wetted surface
area. So in those conditions when you might expect zero heel, some heel is
preferable.

Ok... so feathering is zigzagging.

Done properly its a very smooth procedure, and really doesn't result in a
zigzag CMG, rather a slight serpentine. If you're zigzagging, you're
oversteering or moving the helm too abruptly.

Yup... straight line sailing is faster.. turn = slowing.

I'd agree that it's faster, but one can sail higher on the wind by
feathering. It's helpful in making a mark that you might be slightly below
and want to avoid having to tack at the last minute. To continue your
argument, one can always go faster by footing than by sailing as high as
possible. I should have made the comment that while some of those who don't
touch the helm do win, so do those who steer constantly, feathering into the
wind. The ability and experience of the skipper has more to do with winning
than any given technique on one point of sail. But you know that.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message
.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...


Well, I thought you said that yourself... upwind, very light wind. I
would think that when there's a lull in light wind, the heel would go to
zero, if it wasn't nearly there already. I'm not sure how one would judge
that, since I don't have nor have I seen a tilt meter that accurate.

I'm not talking about momentary zero heel, rather zero heel when moving
along hard on the wind. Only rail ballast can effect zero heel, or even
windward heel, in such cases. When racing dinghies in drifter conditons,
most do slightly better if artifically heeled to minimize wetted surface
area. So in those conditions when you might expect zero heel, some heel
is preferable.

I know you're not... I've never heard of anyone getting zero heel when hard
into the wind. On the lake where I also teach, I have students sit on the
low side to get a feel for the difference in light wind.

Ok... so feathering is zigzagging.

Done properly its a very smooth procedure, and really doesn't result in a
zigzag CMG, rather a slight serpentine. If you're zigzagging, you're
oversteering or moving the helm too abruptly.

Well, call it whatever you like, it's not a straight course.

Yup... straight line sailing is faster.. turn = slowing.

I'd agree that it's faster, but one can sail higher on the wind by
feathering. It's helpful in making a mark that you might be slightly
below and want to avoid having to tack at the last minute. To continue
your argument, one can always go faster by footing than by sailing as high
as possible. I should have made the comment that while some of those who
don't touch the helm do win, so do those who steer constantly, feathering
into the wind. The ability and experience of the skipper has more to do
with winning than any given technique on one point of sail. But you know
that.

Sure, I get what you're saying. If one were sailing on a beam reach, for
example, a straight course would be faster than constantly turning. For up
wind, it's a different story.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com