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#1
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Thank You JEFF!!!
Jeff has finally admitted the reasons why, for many sailing
enthusiasts, a cat like the PDQ 36 can't be considered. As a family cruiser platform it certainly offers a stable platform. But the tradition of sailing is what most of us prefer, and that included healing and the most important thing of all....Upwind ability where a multi faulters 10 degrees or more away from a boat like mine. On a long reach Jeff's boat is faster, but in any real race on various tacks, the PDQ couldn't even STAY ON the course. So...in Jeff's OWN WORDS, ladies and gentlemen... "It won't point too high (45-50 degrees true) but it will go upwind side by side with any cruising boat. Foot off 5 to 10 degrees, and it takes off like a bandit. Tacking is tedious, it certainly isn't good for short tacking out a channel. Light air is another sore point, because the large wetted surface starts to dominate. However, in 10 knots and over will do about half the wind speed. It continues to hold this ratio up to 12 to 15 knots of boat speed, depending on how long you hold off on reefing." And so...with winds below 10 knots MANY times in MANY areas, the PDQ gets an engine workout. With limited upwind performance the engines get another workout. 45-50 degrees is NOT ACCEPTABLE. I bet newer multis manage better. On the LIS these boats have to be motored much of the time and these are otherwise classic sailing grounds hosting some great sailing events. We see few Multi's sailing and for good reason...sooner or later you need to sail upwind better than 50 degrees! RB 35s5...the best performing boat here! NY |
#2
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Thank You JEFF!!!
Capt. Rob wrote:
Jeff has finally admitted the reasons why, for many sailing enthusiasts, a cat like the PDQ 36 can't be considered. As a family cruiser platform it certainly offers a stable platform. But the tradition of sailing is what most of us prefer, and that included healing and the most important thing of all....Upwind ability where a multi faulters 10 degrees or more away from a boat like mine. On a long reach Jeff's boat is faster, but in any real race on various tacks, the PDQ couldn't even STAY ON the course. You don't even know what a sailing race course looks like, or how one gets arund it. All he'd do is more tacks on the upwind legs - and then thrash the monohulls on the reaches and downwind legs. degrees! RB...the best performing clown here! 35s5 NY -- Capt Scumbalino |
#3
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Thank You JEFF!!!
You don't even know what a sailing race course looks like, or how one
gets arund it. All he'd do is more tacks on the upwind legs - and then thrash the monohulls on the reaches and downwind legs. That thing tacks like a bufallo for one. Second, he's not thrashing anyone unless he has conditions and wind to do it. The better pointing boat is the better performing boat. So it has been and always shall be. Tacks on the upwind even in reasonably fair conditions off a 10 degree deficit? Do you know how that would effect his VMG versus a high pointing monohull? And what of the more common light air? PDQ 36 is a cruiser with a very fast off the wind ability, but a performance boat it aint. RB 35s5...a real performance boat NY |
#4
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Thank You JEFF!!!
Capt. Rob wrote:
... The better pointing boat is the better performing boat. So it has been and always shall be. Tacks on the upwind even in reasonably fair conditions off a 10 degree deficit? Do you know how that would effect his VMG versus a high pointing monohull? ... There's more to racing than going upwind, and more to even that than simply pointing the highest. If you think otherwise, then you have no clue about racing. -- Capt Scumbalino |
#5
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Thank You JEFF!!!
There's more to racing than going upwind, and more to even that than
simply pointing the highest. If you think otherwise, then you have no clue about racing. Hmmmm....seems few others agree with this. Even Loco and Steve have said the higher pointing boat has the advantage. VMG across the widest possible range is what determines perfomance. This is the essense of sailing performance in fact. Wish I'd written that! For a boat to be considered high performance it must have excellent windward ability, be fast off the wind and be stable downwind. A PDQ 36 is only fast off the wind and not in light air. It MIGHT win a race...so long as the conditions were pretty specific to it's advantages. My C&C 32 clobbered a well sailed Gemini even though it was faster downwind. Upwind it was a dead duck, just like Jeff's boat would be. He already wrote that tacking is tedious! Get a clue...even a PDQ owner says you're wrong. The PDQ and other cats like her are fantastic cruising boats for some folks, but sailing enthusiasts still prefer First series boats, J-Boats, Swans, Swedens and the rest who comprise the cruiser/racer-racer/cruiser section of the market. They're just more fun to sail, tack fast and can go upwind. RB 35s5 NY |
#6
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Thank You JEFF!!!
Capt. Rob wrote:
VMG across the widest possible range is what determines perfomance. Widest possible range of what? The PDQ and other cats like her are fantastic cruising boats for some folks, but sailing enthusiasts still prefer First series boats, J-Boats, Swans, Swedens and the rest who comprise the cruiser/racer-racer/cruiser section of the market. Are you trying to imply you're a "cruiser-racer" or "racer-cruiser" type? -- Capt Scumbalino |
#7
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Thank You JEFF!!!
Capt. Rob wrote:
There's more to racing than going upwind, and more to even that than simply pointing the highest. If you think otherwise, then you have no clue about racing. Hmmmm....seems few others agree with this. Even Loco and Steve have said the higher pointing boat has the advantage. VMG across the widest possible range is what determines perfomance. This is the essense of sailing performance in fact. Wish I'd written that! For a boat to be considered high performance it must have excellent windward ability, be fast off the wind and be stable downwind. A PDQ 36 is only fast off the wind and not in light air. It MIGHT win a race...so long as the conditions were pretty specific to it's advantages. My C&C 32 clobbered a well sailed Gemini even though it was faster downwind. Upwind it was a dead duck, just like Jeff's boat would be. He already wrote that tacking is tedious! Get a clue...even a PDQ owner says you're wrong. The PDQ and other cats like her are fantastic cruising boats for some folks, but sailing enthusiasts still prefer First series boats, J-Boats, Swans, Swedens and the rest who comprise the cruiser/racer-racer/cruiser section of the market. They're just more fun to sail, tack fast and can go upwind. RB 35s5 NY You are comparing apples and oranges. Try the same comparison using your 35s5 and a Ferrier (any size). The PDQ is in a different league. Compare it with the Nordica. Gaz |
#8
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Thank You JEFF!!!
"Capt. Rob" wrote in message Hmmmm....seems few others agree with this. Even Loco and Steve have said the higher pointing boat has the advantage. Only if the skipper has the knowledge and experience to utilize that advantage. The art of pointing involves a lot more than simply sailing as closely to the wind as possible. VMG across the widest possible range is what determines perfomance. This is the essense of sailing performance in fact. VMG has more to do with the skipper than the boat. Paul Elvstrom proved that for decades, sailing inferior boats against superior ones with inferior skippers, and beating them easily. Wish I'd written that! What a lofty goal, to be able to coin a phrase suggesting something blatantly obvious. For a boat to be considered high performance it must have excellent windward ability, be fast off the wind and be stable downwind. A PDQ 36 is only fast off the wind and not in light air. It MIGHT win a race...so long as the conditions were pretty specific to it's advantages. My C&C 32 clobbered a well sailed Gemini even though it was faster downwind. It is conceivable that some Geminis are owned and sailed by incompetent people. Upwind it was a dead duck, just like Jeff's boat would be. He already wrote that tacking is tedious! Get a clue...even a PDQ owner says you're wrong. The PDQ and other cats like her are fantastic cruising boats for some folks, but sailing enthusiasts still prefer First series boats, J-Boats, Swans, Swedens Interesting that you include your boat with such a distinquished list of yachts. Reminds me of a guy who used to boast that his Cosworth Vega was in the same league as a Ferrari 248GTSi. and the rest who comprise the cruiser/racer-racer/cruiser section of the market. They're just more fun to sail, tack fast and can go upwind. And your 35s5, compared with similarly-sized cruising boats, is cramped, lightly constructed, uncomfortable in a seaway, and must be reefed early and often, not to mention worth a fraction of the value of the cruising boats at resale time. Everything's relative, Bubbles. Max |
#9
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Thank You JEFF!!!
"Capt. Scumbalino" wrote in message If you think otherwise, then you have no clue about racing. You could have omitted the words "If you think otherwise, then". Max |
#10
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Thank You JEFF!!!
Hey, Jeff. Suppose you agree to go to the LIS to
meet bs (since there's no chance he'd ever go to meet you), and you accept his race challenge. It's blowing about 10k. He's beating to windward @ 36° making 4.7k - decent performance. But, you, with your loaded-for-cruising slug that can't point, foot off to about 50°, but in doing so are holding 6.5k. Yeah, you're faster, but you're not pointing. Then, down wind, he's sailing 170° making about 4.5k and you reach off to about 150° and are making just over 6k. Again, you're faster, but he's sailing closer to the mark. Can't you just accept the fact that his boat is better because he can point higher? S. "Capt. Rob" wrote in message oups.com... : That thing tacks like a bufallo for one. Second, he's not thrashing : anyone unless he has conditions and wind to do it. The better pointing : boat is the better performing boat. So it has been and always shall be. : Tacks on the upwind even in reasonably fair conditions off a 10 degree : deficit? Do you know how that would effect his VMG versus a high : pointing monohull? And what of the more common light air? : PDQ 36 is a cruiser with a very fast off the wind ability, but a : performance boat it aint. : : : RB : 35s5...a real performance boat : NY : |
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