Jeff has finally admitted the reasons why, for many sailing
enthusiasts, a cat like the PDQ 36 can't be considered. As a family
cruiser platform it certainly offers a stable platform. But the
tradition of sailing is what most of us prefer, and that included
healing and the most important thing of all....Upwind ability where a
multi faulters 10 degrees or more away from a boat like mine. On a long
reach Jeff's boat is faster, but in any real race on various tacks, the
PDQ couldn't even STAY ON the course.

So...in Jeff's OWN WORDS, ladies and gentlemen...

"It won't point too high (45-50 degrees true) but it will
go upwind side by side with any cruising boat. Foot off 5 to 10
degrees, and it takes off like a bandit. Tacking is tedious, it
certainly isn't good for short tacking out a channel. Light air is
another sore point, because the large wetted surface starts to
dominate. However, in 10 knots and over will do about half the wind
speed. It continues to hold this ratio up to 12 to 15 knots of boat
speed, depending on how long you hold off on reefing."

And so...with winds below 10 knots MANY times in MANY areas, the PDQ
gets an engine workout. With limited upwind performance the engines get
another workout. 45-50 degrees is NOT ACCEPTABLE. I bet newer multis
manage better. On the LIS these boats have to be motored much of the
time and these are otherwise classic sailing grounds hosting some great
sailing events. We see few Multi's sailing and for good reason...sooner
or later you need to sail upwind better than 50 degrees!

RB
35s5...the best performing boat here!
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:
Jeff has finally admitted the reasons why, for many sailing
enthusiasts, a cat like the PDQ 36 can't be considered. As a family
cruiser platform it certainly offers a stable platform. But the
tradition of sailing is what most of us prefer, and that included
healing and the most important thing of all....Upwind ability where a
multi faulters 10 degrees or more away from a boat like mine. On a
long reach Jeff's boat is faster, but in any real race on various
tacks, the PDQ couldn't even STAY ON the course.

You don't even know what a sailing race course looks like, or how one gets
arund it. All he'd do is more tacks on the upwind legs - and then thrash the
monohulls on the reaches and downwind legs.



degrees!

RB...the best performing clown here!
35s5
NY



--
Capt Scumbalino

You don't even know what a sailing race course looks like, or how one
gets
arund it. All he'd do is more tacks on the upwind legs - and then
thrash the
monohulls on the reaches and downwind legs.


That thing tacks like a bufallo for one. Second, he's not thrashing
anyone unless he has conditions and wind to do it. The better pointing
boat is the better performing boat. So it has been and always shall be.
Tacks on the upwind even in reasonably fair conditions off a 10 degree
deficit? Do you know how that would effect his VMG versus a high
pointing monohull? And what of the more common light air?
PDQ 36 is a cruiser with a very fast off the wind ability, but a
performance boat it aint.


RB
35s5...a real performance boat
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:

... The better pointing
boat is the better performing boat. So it has been and always shall
be. Tacks on the upwind even in reasonably fair conditions off a 10
degree deficit? Do you know how that would effect his VMG versus a
high pointing monohull? ...

There's more to racing than going upwind, and more to even that than simply
pointing the highest. If you think otherwise, then you have no clue about
racing.


--
Capt Scumbalino

There's more to racing than going upwind, and more to even that than
simply
pointing the highest. If you think otherwise, then you have no clue
about
racing.


Hmmmm....seems few others agree with this. Even Loco and Steve have
said the higher pointing boat has the advantage. VMG across the widest
possible range is what determines perfomance. This is the essense of
sailing performance in fact. Wish I'd written that! For a boat to be
considered high performance it must have excellent windward ability, be
fast off the wind and be stable downwind. A PDQ 36 is only fast off the
wind and not in light air. It MIGHT win a race...so long as the
conditions were pretty specific to it's advantages. My C&C 32 clobbered
a well sailed Gemini even though it was faster downwind. Upwind it was
a dead duck, just like Jeff's boat would be. He already wrote that
tacking is tedious!
Get a clue...even a PDQ owner says you're wrong. The PDQ and other cats
like her are fantastic cruising boats for some folks, but sailing
enthusiasts still prefer First series boats, J-Boats, Swans, Swedens
and the rest who comprise the cruiser/racer-racer/cruiser section of
the market. They're just more fun to sail, tack fast and can go upwind.

RB
35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:

VMG across the widest
possible range is what determines perfomance.

Widest possible range of what?


The PDQ and other
cats like her are fantastic cruising boats for some folks, but sailing
enthusiasts still prefer First series boats, J-Boats, Swans, Swedens
and the rest who comprise the cruiser/racer-racer/cruiser section of
the market.

Are you trying to imply you're a "cruiser-racer" or "racer-cruiser" type?



--
Capt Scumbalino

Capt. Rob wrote:
There's more to racing than going upwind, and more to even that than
simply
pointing the highest. If you think otherwise, then you have no clue
about
racing.


Hmmmm....seems few others agree with this. Even Loco and Steve have
said the higher pointing boat has the advantage. VMG across the widest
possible range is what determines perfomance. This is the essense of
sailing performance in fact. Wish I'd written that! For a boat to be
considered high performance it must have excellent windward ability, be
fast off the wind and be stable downwind. A PDQ 36 is only fast off the
wind and not in light air. It MIGHT win a race...so long as the
conditions were pretty specific to it's advantages. My C&C 32 clobbered
a well sailed Gemini even though it was faster downwind. Upwind it was
a dead duck, just like Jeff's boat would be. He already wrote that
tacking is tedious!
Get a clue...even a PDQ owner says you're wrong. The PDQ and other cats
like her are fantastic cruising boats for some folks, but sailing
enthusiasts still prefer First series boats, J-Boats, Swans, Swedens
and the rest who comprise the cruiser/racer-racer/cruiser section of
the market. They're just more fun to sail, tack fast and can go upwind.

RB
35s5
NY

You are comparing apples and oranges. Try the same comparison using
your 35s5 and a Ferrier (any size). The PDQ is in a different league.
Compare it with the Nordica.

Gaz

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

Hmmmm....seems few others agree with this. Even Loco and Steve have
said the higher pointing boat has the advantage.

Only if the skipper has the knowledge and experience to utilize that
advantage. The art of pointing involves a lot more than simply sailing as
closely to the wind as possible.

VMG across the widest
possible range is what determines perfomance. This is the essense of
sailing performance in fact.

VMG has more to do with the skipper than the boat. Paul Elvstrom proved
that for decades, sailing inferior boats against superior ones with inferior
skippers, and beating them easily.

Wish I'd written that!

What a lofty goal, to be able to coin a phrase suggesting something
blatantly obvious.

For a boat to be
considered high performance it must have excellent windward ability, be
fast off the wind and be stable downwind. A PDQ 36 is only fast off the
wind and not in light air. It MIGHT win a race...so long as the
conditions were pretty specific to it's advantages. My C&C 32 clobbered
a well sailed Gemini even though it was faster downwind.

It is conceivable that some Geminis are owned and sailed by incompetent
people.

Upwind it was
a dead duck, just like Jeff's boat would be. He already wrote that
tacking is tedious!
Get a clue...even a PDQ owner says you're wrong. The PDQ and other cats
like her are fantastic cruising boats for some folks, but sailing
enthusiasts still prefer First series boats, J-Boats, Swans, Swedens

Interesting that you include your boat with such a distinquished list of
yachts. Reminds me of a guy who used to boast that his Cosworth Vega was in
the same league as a Ferrari 248GTSi.

and the rest who comprise the cruiser/racer-racer/cruiser section of
the market. They're just more fun to sail, tack fast and can go upwind.

And your 35s5, compared with similarly-sized cruising boats, is cramped,
lightly constructed, uncomfortable in a seaway, and must be reefed early and
often, not to mention worth a fraction of the value of the cruising boats at
resale time. Everything's relative, Bubbles.

Max

"Capt. Scumbalino" wrote in message

If you think otherwise, then you have no clue about
racing.

You could have omitted the words "If you think otherwise, then".

Max

Hey, Jeff. Suppose you agree to go to the LIS to
meet bs (since there's no chance he'd ever go to
meet you), and you accept his race challenge.
It's blowing about 10k. He's beating to windward
@ 36° making 4.7k - decent performance. But, you,
with your loaded-for-cruising slug that can't
point, foot off to about 50°, but in doing so are
holding 6.5k. Yeah, you're faster, but you're not
pointing.
Then, down wind, he's sailing 170° making about
4.5k and you reach off to about 150° and are
making just over 6k. Again, you're faster, but
he's sailing closer to the mark.
Can't you just accept the fact that his boat is
better because he can point higher?
S.

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

: That thing tacks like a bufallo for one. Second,
he's not thrashing
: anyone unless he has conditions and wind to do
it. The better pointing
: boat is the better performing boat. So it has
been and always shall be.
: Tacks on the upwind even in reasonably fair
conditions off a 10 degree
: deficit? Do you know how that would effect his
VMG versus a high
: pointing monohull? And what of the more common
light air?
: PDQ 36 is a cruiser with a very fast off the
wind ability, but a
: performance boat it aint.
:
:
: RB
: 35s5...a real performance boat
: NY
: