"Red Cloud®" wrote in message
...

It's different, Donal, as you ARE a homo! LOL

What's wrong with that? Not everybody is a white heterosexual.




Regards


Donal
--

See, it's working already.

Hey Tad, how goes the mud sailing? I've been having a lotta fun with my
CCA treated pine sailboat with the welded mast. Got any tips for
getting off a lee shore with 150mm of water under you so the lateral
plane is about zero? I haven't added a motor yet but that's due to
laziness rather than any matter of principle. I don't much care about
the time it takes to go anywhere, tons of fish & birds to watch anyway.

PDW

In article , Flying Tadpole
wrote:

Peter Wiley wrote:
That's typical LP bull****, anyway. More like, would you turn in your
neighbour for dumping a huge amount of **** in the road where everyone
could see it, and plastering your name & address all over it?

You turkeys started it by forging posts purporting to come from Katy.
You got what you deserved. Soon you'll be in so many killfiles here
that your virtual existence will be over. Katy will still be here.

Who's LP?

Peter Wiley wrote:
See, it's working already.

-ed, not -ing.

Hey Tad, how goes the mud sailing? I've been having a lotta fun with my
CCA treated pine sailboat with the welded mast. Got any tips for
getting off a lee shore with 150mm of water under you so the lateral
plane is about zero? I haven't added a motor yet but that's due to
laziness rather than any matter of principle. snip

Leeboards will continue to work until you totally ground. The
original Flying Tadpole II was able to do it by sailing on a
broad reach and witching up, all the while praying that what
little of the daggerboard was down wouldn't hit anything: but in
her case the folding rudder was acting as the main lateral plane
and leading to tendonitis in later years. Oars are useful. a
small 2hp motor is smart for just that eventuality.

How is the CCA pine doing as its own antifoul?


--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner
http://music.download.com/timfatchen
http://music.download.com/internetopera

"Peter Wiley" wrote:

Top-posted to annoy the flonkers.....

It doesn't annoy them, they laugh at the fool you are, idiot!

LP

In article , Flying Tadpole
wrote:

Peter Wiley wrote:
See, it's working already.

-ed, not -ing.

Hey Tad, how goes the mud sailing? I've been having a lotta fun with my
CCA treated pine sailboat with the welded mast. Got any tips for
getting off a lee shore with 150mm of water under you so the lateral
plane is about zero? I haven't added a motor yet but that's due to
laziness rather than any matter of principle. snip

Leeboards will continue to work until you totally ground.

The c/b does that, too, as it pivots back nicely. I have a pennant
going fwd to a block then back to a clam cleat under the centre thwart
so I can raise it a little at a time to keep max plane. When you hear
the grating noise, it's time to haul a bit more. Rudder kicks up when
it hits the bottom.

The
original Flying Tadpole II was able to do it by sailing on a
broad reach and witching up, all the while praying that what
little of the daggerboard was down wouldn't hit anything: but in
her case the folding rudder was acting as the main lateral plane
and leading to tendonitis in later years.

Yeah, I can feel your pain....

Oars are useful.

I have a couple of paddles. They were cheap. They are of marginal use
if you're by yourself. Gotta get some oars which means (re)fitting the
rowlocks. Dunno how I'll go with them, tho, given the restricted range
of movement in the arm. Only one way to find out.
a
small 2hp motor is smart for just that eventuality.

It's on the list.......

How is the CCA pine doing as its own antifoul?

Nothing seems to be living on it. Gonna haul this afternoon. I've
decided the bowsprit was a good idea but now there's too much lee helm.
I'll make a new mast base about a foot back and then make a new set of
stays & shrouds to suit. I never did like the existing chainplates
anyway, and I have a huge supply of scrap. Sometimes I think I took up
boats to finally have a hobby where I'd never run out of things to do,
things to change, things to repair and tools to play with while doing
it. The sailing side is pretty cool, too.

Might build an elongated Buehler Pogo next, just for fun. Gaff schooner
rig. I have a Yanmar 3HP diesel engine with g/box that needs a boat.

PDW

Peter Wiley wrote:
In article , Flying Tadpole
wrote:


Peter Wiley wrote:

See, it's working already.

-ed, not -ing.


Hey Tad, how goes the mud sailing? I've been having a lotta fun with my
CCA treated pine sailboat with the welded mast. Got any tips for
getting off a lee shore with 150mm of water under you so the lateral
plane is about zero? I haven't added a motor yet but that's due to
laziness rather than any matter of principle. snip

Leeboards will continue to work until you totally ground.


The c/b does that, too, as it pivots back nicely. I have a pennant
going fwd to a block then back to a clam cleat under the centre thwart
so I can raise it a little at a time to keep max plane. When you hear
the grating noise, it's time to haul a bit more. Rudder kicks up when
it hits the bottom.

No, not what I meant. Leeboards will _still_ give you some
lateral plane (also tunnel effects) at the point where you have
your c/b all the way up and there's only 1cm of water under your
keel. Similarly, a kick-up rudder will too (not a spade rudder,
the kickup has to rotate). Pity about where the centre of effort
shifts in relation to the centre of resistance, but what the
hey--even with the lee helm you've still got a chance of sailing
out with leeboards. (all learnt from bitter experience with the
original Flying Tadpole--although she had a 12ft large-bladed
steering oar and could always be sculled out of trouble)


I have a couple of paddles. They were cheap. They are of marginal use
if you're by yourself. Gotta get some oars which means (re)fitting the
rowlocks. Dunno how I'll go with them, tho, given the restricted range
of movement in the arm. Only one way to find out.

Short strokes, Peter, Short strokes. My nymph dinghy only allows
7ft oars, and it's a real bummer at first to respond to the
little strokes they enforce (hard long strokes tip the dinghy over...

How is the CCA pine doing as its own antifoul?


Nothing seems to be living on it.

Yeah... they're surreptitiously removing it from all the
vineyards around here, and I'm not allowed to recommend CCA
sleepers for resting oil flowlines on in the cattle country...

Gonna haul this afternoon. I've
decided the bowsprit was a good idea but now there's too much lee helm.
I'll make a new mast base about a foot back and then make a new set of
stays & shrouds to suit. I never did like the existing chainplates
anyway, and I have a huge supply of scrap. Sometimes I think I took up
boats to finally have a hobby where I'd never run out of things to do,
things to change, things to repair and tools to play with while doing
it. The sailing side is pretty cool, too.

You _could_ have rigged unstayed, it would be saner if less
weatherly for such a craft.

Might build an elongated Buehler Pogo next, just for fun. Gaff schooner
rig. I have a Yanmar 3HP diesel engine with g/box that needs a boat.

Ah. I retract my previous statement. Nothing wrong with your
sanity index.


PDW

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner
http://music.download.com/timfatchen
http://www.soundclick.com/flyingtadpolemusic.htm

The c/b does that, too, as it pivots back nicely. I have a pennant
going fwd to a block then back to a clam cleat under the centre thwart
so I can raise it a little at a time to keep max plane. When you hear
the grating noise, it's time to haul a bit more. Rudder kicks up when
it hits the bottom.


Flying Tadpole wrote:
No, not what I meant. Leeboards will _still_ give you some lateral
plane (also tunnel effects) at the point where you have your c/b all the
way up and there's only 1cm of water under your keel.

That's true. The leeboards are better at the super-shallow sailing. But
they also have twice as much drag.

Not sure if the "tunnel effect" is helpful or hurtful, that kind of
hydrodynamics is very picky.


I have a couple of paddles. They were cheap. They are of marginal use
if you're by yourself. Gotta get some oars which means (re)fitting the
rowlocks. Dunno how I'll go with them, tho, given the restricted range
of movement in the arm. Only one way to find out.


Rowing can be very therapeutic. Remember to take it easy at first,
that's the difficult part. I tend to get all wound up and pull like hell
then suffer later.


Short strokes, Peter, Short strokes. My nymph dinghy only allows 7ft
oars, and it's a real bummer at first to respond to the little strokes
they enforce (hard long strokes tip the dinghy over...

??? Never had that problem.
Another useful technique is to alternate sides, this keeps the stroke
short. It makes the boat waggle from side to side but if you get the
timing right this helps visibility.


How is the CCA pine doing as its own antifoul?



Nothing seems to be living on it.


Now I'm curious. What is "CCA pine?"



Gonna haul this afternoon. I've
decided the bowsprit was a good idea but now there's too much lee helm.
I'll make a new mast base about a foot back and then make a new set of
stays & shrouds to suit. I never did like the existing chainplates
anyway, and I have a huge supply of scrap.

Keep in mind this is going to change the sheeting geometry. A foot is a
lot! You sure you don't want to trial it at a bit less? How far back
have you raked the mast? This will give you a good way to measure how
far back to move the CE.

.... Sometimes I think I took up
boats to finally have a hobby where I'd never run out of things to do,
things to change, things to repair and tools to play with while doing
it. The sailing side is pretty cool, too.


Moderation in all things... don't be like Vito and focus solely on
working on the boat!


You _could_ have rigged unstayed, it would be saner if less weatherly
for such a craft.


Not necessarily less weatherly. The engineering would be a bit more
intense, remember he's flying a bigger headsail.



Might build an elongated Buehler Pogo next, just for fun. Gaff schooner
rig. I have a Yanmar 3HP diesel engine with g/box that needs a boat.


Ah. I retract my previous statement. Nothing wrong with your sanity index.


I guess all is relative

http://www.georgebuehler.com/pogo.html

Looks like a fun boat, but it's a lot heavier than FT2.

FResh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
The c/b does that, too, as it pivots back nicely. I have a pennant
going fwd to a block then back to a clam cleat under the centre thwart
so I can raise it a little at a time to keep max plane. When you hear
the grating noise, it's time to haul a bit more. Rudder kicks up when
it hits the bottom.



Flying Tadpole wrote:

No, not what I meant. Leeboards will _still_ give you some lateral
plane (also tunnel effects) at the point where you have your c/b all
the way up and there's only 1cm of water under your keel.


That's true. The leeboards are better at the super-shallow sailing. But
they also have twice as much drag.

Yes, but his problem was getting wrecked in the shoals. One
accepts drag as payment if it helps you get out. BTW now is the
time one is supposed to drag Dutch leeboarders out as the prize
example, but it's actually fallacious; leeboards were used as
much because they avoid slotting a hull, and so allow a
potentially stronger hull, as for their shallow sailing
abilities. An entire hull is an advantage if you keep boun\cing
on sand at low tide!


Not sure if the "tunnel effect" is helpful or hurtful, that kind of
hydrodynamics is very picky.

On FLying Tadpole the FIrst, it was hurtful until I got the
leeboards the right distance out and the right toe-in, then it
was helpful...


I have a couple of paddles. They were cheap. They are of marginal use
if you're by yourself. Gotta get some oars which means (re)fitting the
rowlocks. Dunno how I'll go with them, tho, given the restricted range
of movement in the arm. Only one way to find out.



Rowing can be very therapeutic. Remember to take it easy at first,
that's the difficult part. I tend to get all wound up and pull like hell
then suffer later.


Short strokes, Peter, Short strokes. My nymph dinghy only allows 7ft
oars, and it's a real bummer at first to respond to the little strokes
they enforce (hard long strokes tip the dinghy over...


??? Never had that problem.
Another useful technique is to alternate sides, this keeps the stroke
short. It makes the boat waggle from side to side but if you get the
timing right this helps visibility.

It would make my little pram go round'n'round like a coracle...


How is the CCA pine doing as its own antifoul?




Nothing seems to be living on it.



Now I'm curious. What is "CCA pine?"

Apple urgies. Copper Chrome Arsenate pressure-treated softwood.
"PermaPine". Impervious to rot, lethal to borers, white ants,
unfortunate propensity to poison you if used as barbeque fuel,
but also prone to explode when overheated...when it
disintegrates, leaves traces of (you guessed it) copper, chrome
and arsenic. Safe to lean against, not to chew contemplatively.
Sawdust nearly as poisonous as western red cedar.

snip



You _could_ have rigged unstayed, it would be saner if less weatherly
for such a craft.


Not necessarily less weatherly. The engineering would be a bit more
intense, remember he's flying a bigger headsail.

Well, that's a mistake in an unstayed craft. Use a bigger main.
Or dispose of the jib entirely and replace it with the forward
bit of a balanced lug!

Might build an elongated Buehler Pogo next, just for fun. Gaff schooner
rig. I have a Yanmar 3HP diesel engine with g/box that needs a boat.



Ah. I retract my previous statement. Nothing wrong with your sanity
index.


I guess all is relative

There is no relative with a schooner of any sort. It is all
superlative.

http://www.georgebuehler.com/pogo.html

Looks like a fun boat, but it's a lot heavier than FT2.

Yeah, but he doesn't need to be a hyperfit young adult to drive
it, either. FT2 is going to come home from Port Augusta soon,
get stripped back to wood-epoxy, critical things fixed, then sold
as is. Harsh physical reality is I'm unlikely to sail her again
and I need all maintenenace time at present to keep Lady Kate
happy.--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner
http://music.download.com/timfatchen
http://music.download.com/internetopera

That's true. The leeboards are better at the super-shallow sailing.
But they also have twice as much drag.


Flying Tadpole wrote:
Yes, but his problem was getting wrecked in the shoals. One accepts drag
as payment if it helps you get out.

Actually, I was thinking of them dragging the bottom...

... BTW now is the time one is supposed
to drag Dutch leeboarders out as the prize example, but it's actually
fallacious; leeboards were used as much because they avoid slotting a
hull, and so allow a potentially stronger hull, as for their shallow
sailing abilities.

An advantage that has been negated by modern technology.

... An entire hull is an advantage if you keep boun\cing
on sand at low tide!


Yes much better than a partial hull, I'm sure


Not sure if the "tunnel effect" is helpful or hurtful, that kind of
hydrodynamics is very picky.


On FLying Tadpole the FIrst, it was hurtful until I got the leeboards
the right distance out and the right toe-in, then it was helpful...


Toe-in is "tunnel effect"? I thought you mean the pressure change due to
flow between the hull & leeboard.

BTW a centerboard can be set to angle itslef slightly to windward, just
like toe-in with leeboards, bilgeboards, or catamaran foils. This used
to be called a "gybing" board and it's a big help.



??? Never had that problem.
Another useful technique is to alternate sides, this keeps the stroke
short. It makes the boat waggle from side to side but if you get the
timing right this helps visibility.


It would make my little pram go round'n'round like a coracle...


Try shorter strokes.


I guess all is relative


There is no relative with a schooner of any sort. It is all superlative.


I meant relative sanity.

FWIW I agree about schooners. I have only sailed a few but always
admired them tremendously. Here it's commonly said that schooners are an
American rig, even an American invention, but one sees native schooner
types all over the world. I'm sad to hear you're planning on selling
FT2, it has been a pleasure to sail her vicariously.

BTW did I ever send you that picture of the FT2 sistership with the box
cabin?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

snip
Not sure if the "tunnel effect" is helpful or hurtful, that kind of
hydrodynamics is very picky.



On FLying Tadpole the FIrst, it was hurtful until I got the leeboards
the right distance out and the right toe-in, then it was helpful...


Toe-in is "tunnel effect"? I thought you mean the pressure change due to
flow between the hull & leeboard.


No, the distance I had the leeboards out from the hull was one
thing and their toe-in another (FT1 had leeboards mounted on an
outrigger boom, not directly on the canoe's hull. And the hull
was still widening at the point the boom crossed it, so water
flow faced a constrciting passage, not parallel. A few cm in or
out made a surprisign difference. Then I fiddled with the toe in .)

BTW a centerboard can be set to angle itslef slightly to windward, just
like toe-in with leeboards, bilgeboards, or catamaran foils. This used
to be called a "gybing" board and it's a big help.
snip

FWIW I agree about schooners. I have only sailed a few but always
admired them tremendously. Here it's commonly said that schooners are an
American rig, even an American invention, but one sees native schooner
types all over the world. I'm sad to hear you're planning on selling
FT2, it has been a pleasure to sail her vicariously.

BTW did I ever send you that picture of the FT2 sistership with the box
cabin?

Yes thanks. One day when I finally update the Light Schooner
page I will put it up.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner
http://music.download.com/timfatchen
http://music.download.com/internetopera