BB smirks thusly:

I think Bush has effectively destroyed the future
of an all volunteer military. Nice ****ing work, Smirking Chimp!

You're absolutely right! It's about time! The all volunteer military was a
bunch of weekend warriors that couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag.
What we need is a 2 year draft, where every one is made to realize that
military duty is just that: a DUTY, not a part time job or a way to get your
college tuition paid.

In article ,
Recobee wrote:
BB smirks thusly:

I think Bush has effectively destroyed the future
of an all volunteer military. Nice ****ing work, Smirking Chimp!

You're absolutely right! It's about time! The all volunteer military was a
bunch of weekend warriors that couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag.
What we need is a 2 year draft, where every one is made to realize that
military duty is just that: a DUTY, not a part time job or a way to get your
college tuition paid.

Slamming the military... sounds like a patriot to me...



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Ganz thinks so!

I think not! Its time to face facts. Patriotism and a sense of duty have gone
out the window. How many of the young men that are now serving in the NATIONAL
GUARD, etc., are there because of a sense of duty? What percentage of them
expected they would be fighting and dying on foreign soil to protect their
country? How many women generals know what it means to dig out a bloody
victory? How many women MP's know how to guard prisoners?

I suspect that many of them figured this was a weekend job, and that at most
they would be called out to help in some sort of national disaster, not have to
shoot and kill or be killed. I am upset when I see men and women, led by a
women general incapable of properly guarding prisoners. I am upset when I see
men and women refusing an order because they think it's to dangerous. I am
upset when I see men and women crying to mommy that their equipment isn't good
enough.

Am I slamming the military? I suppose so. I know that there are a significant
number of hardass patriotic men that do in fact serve, but not enough of them.
And we really need to make every one serve, and every one learn just what it
means to be a patriot.

That's not a football team in Massachusetts.

In article ,
Recobee wrote:
Ganz thinks so!

I think so if you're talking about the soldiers on the ground. If
you're talking about the upper-level of the military who don't insist
on having their advice heard, who pander to BushCo because they're
afraid of Rumsfeld forcing them out, then no.

I think not! Its time to face facts. Patriotism and a sense of duty have gone
out the window. How many of the young men that are now serving in the NATIONAL
GUARD, etc., are there because of a sense of duty? What percentage of them
expected they would be fighting and dying on foreign soil to protect their
country? How many women generals know what it means to dig out a bloody
victory? How many women MP's know how to guard prisoners?

I suspect that many did sign up because of sense of duty, and many
signed up for economic benefit. Doesn't matter. Both groups die the
same.

I suspect that many of them figured this was a weekend job, and that at most
they would be called out to help in some sort of national disaster, not have to
shoot and kill or be killed. I am upset when I see men and women, led by a
women general incapable of properly guarding prisoners. I am upset when I see
men and women refusing an order because they think it's to dangerous. I am
upset when I see men and women crying to mommy that their equipment isn't good
enough.

Seems to me that you are making assumptions about women in the
military. I don't have the complete facts about the specific female
general, but I believe she had her orders. She also gave a few
interviews wherein she disputed her "being in charge" of that part of
the prison.

Am I slamming the military? I suppose so. I know that there are a significant
number of hardass patriotic men that do in fact serve, but not enough of them.
And we really need to make every one serve, and every one learn just what it
means to be a patriot.

I agree. We need more. Kerry advocated increasing the size of the
Special Forces. Bush hasn't done much at all, except deny many of the
troops the equipment they need to do an effective, safer job.

That's not a football team in Massachusetts.

Neither is it in Texas.




--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Patriotism and a sense of duty have gone
out the window.

And it's taken many years of awful leadership to make this happen. Bush is the
worst yet.

RB

(Recobee) wrote in message ...


I agree 100% recobee.

Infact I think if your not willing to serve and protect your country
then you should not be allowed to vote.

After all how can you chose a commander and chief if you do not have a
clue what it's all about.

Joe
USS Samuel Gompers AD-37



Ganz thinks so!

I think not! Its time to face facts. Patriotism and a sense of duty have gone
out the window. How many of the young men that are now serving in the NATIONAL
GUARD, etc., are there because of a sense of duty? What percentage of them
expected they would be fighting and dying on foreign soil to protect their
country? How many women generals know what it means to dig out a bloody
victory? How many women MP's know how to guard prisoners?

I suspect that many of them figured this was a weekend job, and that at most
they would be called out to help in some sort of national disaster, not have to
shoot and kill or be killed. I am upset when I see men and women, led by a
women general incapable of properly guarding prisoners. I am upset when I see
men and women refusing an order because they think it's to dangerous. I am
upset when I see men and women crying to mommy that their equipment isn't good
enough.

Am I slamming the military? I suppose so. I know that there are a significant
number of hardass patriotic men that do in fact serve, but not enough of them.
And we really need to make every one serve, and every one learn just what it
means to be a patriot.

That's not a football team in Massachusetts.

"Joe" wrote

After all how can you chose a commander and chief if you do not have a
clue what it's all about.

Joe
USS Samuel Gompers AD-37

Bwahahahaha! Jeeze stop, my poor old busted up ribs hurt. An AD?? Can you
say REMF?

You really want people like ganz & bob in the military?


SV


"Joe" wrote in message
om...
(Recobee) wrote in message
...


I agree 100% recobee.

Infact I think if your not willing to serve and protect your country
then you should not be allowed to vote.

After all how can you chose a commander and chief if you do not have
a
clue what it's all about.

Joe
USS Samuel Gompers AD-37



Ganz thinks so!

I think not! Its time to face facts. Patriotism and a sense of
duty have gone
out the window. How many of the young men that are now serving in
the NATIONAL
GUARD, etc., are there because of a sense of duty? What
percentage of them
expected they would be fighting and dying on foreign soil to
protect their
country? How many women generals know what it means to dig out a
bloody
victory? How many women MP's know how to guard prisoners?

I suspect that many of them figured this was a weekend job, and
that at most
they would be called out to help in some sort of national
disaster, not have to
shoot and kill or be killed. I am upset when I see men and
women, led by a
women general incapable of properly guarding prisoners. I am
upset when I see
men and women refusing an order because they think it's to
dangerous. I am
upset when I see men and women crying to mommy that their
equipment isn't good
enough.

Am I slamming the military? I suppose so. I know that there are
a significant
number of hardass patriotic men that do in fact serve, but not
enough of them.
And we really need to make every one serve, and every one learn
just what it
means to be a patriot.

That's not a football team in Massachusetts.

"Recobee" wrote
I think not! Its time to face facts. Patriotism and a sense of duty have
gone
out the window. How many of the young men that are now serving in the
NATIONAL
GUARD, etc., are there because of a sense of duty? What percentage of
them
expected they would be fighting and dying on foreign soil to protect their
country? How many women generals know what it means to dig out a bloody
victory? How many women MP's know how to guard prisoners?

I live near a major Guard and Spl Forces training facility. ALL of the
guardsmen I've met have a strong sense of duty. And when it comes to being
mean and hard you obviously don't know many young women. A bike club once
tied a miscreant to a metal bedsprings with a old ford coil hooked you know
where. Anybody could 'push his button' for a quarter. Guess which sex did
all the pushing.


....... I am upset when I see men and women, led by a
women general incapable of properly guarding prisoners. I am upset when I
see
men and women refusing an order because they think it's to dangerous. I
am
upset when I see men and women crying to mommy that their equipment isn't
good
enough.

Then get used to it. A couple kids on our local ROTC shooting team are back
from their second tours as snipers in the Marine Reserves. Both killed
people without qualm as ordered. Both privately told me that they had to
say they didn't like it to calm folks back home. The girl didn't like
packing the heavy 50 cal rifle but loved the effect that blowing a terrorist
apart with it from half a mile away had on his buddies (c:

Are prisoners escaping in droves? No? Then what's this 'incapable' BS. If
you are sniviling about maltreating prisoners I'd remind you that SecDef
Rumsfeld ignored JAG admonishments to encourage the "atrocities" then left
the grunts, male and female, to take the heat when they followed his
"advise". What can we expect with leaders like that? Oh! That's right!!
You voted for more of the same!!! And your sis P-whipped you? Go ahead and
blame the women MPs then.

A kid I talked to recalled his squad busting into a building full of
mujahadeen. The point man thru the door took 3 AK rounds in the chest before
killing his attacker. He walked away, albiet sore, because he had the latest
vest. The rest of the squad did not. I'd do some ****ing and moaning too
were I one of them. I recall a lot of complaints about M-16s jamming in
'nam too. I suppose those guys were sissies too?

AFAIK nobody refused an order because it was dangerous. A fuel delivery
crew did refuse to deliver bad fuel to combat vehicles - not because of
danger to themselves but because the bad fuel would put the combat troops in
*unnessary* danger.

... I know that there are a significant
number of hardass patriotic men that do in fact serve, but not enough of
them.

G. Witless Bush and Don Rummyfeld disagree. "Enough of them" would have
been the 300 - 500,000 General Shinseki said we'd need, not just to topple
Saddam but to *secure the peace*. But G.Witless and Rummy only sent
140,000, thus allowing Al Qaeda agents to follow our troops in and loot
Saddam's weapons stashes for the crap now being used to kill our boys - and
perhaps to bomb your kids' school next month. Its the 3 stooges -LBJ,
Westmoreland and McNamara -all over again! And when the protests begin you
can blame them too.

When writting about the decline of the military,

Bobspud sputters:

And it's taken many years of awful leadership to make this happen.

Yes, I'd say about 8 years...When Hillary ran the government. You know, the
don't ask don't tell years.