Since the White House only got copies of the documents this week, from CBS,
for comment on the story, they maybe didn't have time to consult multiple
experts on document authenticity and get the reports back. The blogs beat
them to it. I suspect that if you asked GW if any of his dad's friends put
in a good word for him to get him into the Air Guard, he would say, "I
assume they did, yes. Why not?" I don't think there were many doctor's sons
who passed the draft physical, if they wanted to flunk it. Definitely not
heroic, but not uncommon either. Bush would have been an officer (like
Kerry) in any case, and officers had more choices even when they ended up
in Vietnam.

Philip Carroll wrote:

Funny, the Bush camp isn't denying their authenticity.
"John Deere" wrote in message
news:bHV0ZWZpc2s=.826f81b94141a5f1e6c0063cc30abd99 @1094768452.nulluser.com..
..
'60 Minutes' Documents on Bush Might Be Fake
By Robert B. Bluey
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
September 09, 2004

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 01:14:50 -0000 (GMT), "John Deere"
wrote:

Since the White House only got copies of the documents this week, from CBS,
for comment on the story, they maybe didn't have time to consult multiple
experts on document authenticity and get the reports back. The blogs beat
them to it. I suspect that if you asked GW if any of his dad's friends put
in a good word for him to get him into the Air Guard, he would say, "I
assume they did, yes. Why not?" I don't think there were many doctor's sons
who passed the draft physical, if they wanted to flunk it. Definitely not
heroic, but not uncommon either. Bush would have been an officer (like
Kerry) in any case, and officers had more choices even when they ended up
in Vietnam.

Philip Carroll wrote:

Well, Bush wouldn't have been an officer "like Kerry", as Bush
received a direct appointment, bypassing any required officer
training. The only case of that happening for a pilot, as far as I
have been able to determine. Kerry actually had to go to officer's
training. I suppose it was that 25 percentile that Bush scored that
qualified him to skip all that unnecessary officer training. Perhaps
that is why Bush was under the impression that the order to take his
annual physical was optional, as well.



Funny, the Bush camp isn't denying their authenticity.
"John Deere" wrote in message
news:bHV0ZWZpc2s=.826f81b94141a5f1e6c0063cc30abd9 ..
.
'60 Minutes' Documents on Bush Might Be Fake
By Robert B. Bluey
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
September 09, 2004

felton wrote:

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 01:14:50 -0000 (GMT), "John Deere"
wrote:

Since the White House only got copies of the documents this week, from
CBS,
for comment on the story, they maybe didn't have time to consult
multiple
experts on document authenticity and get the reports back. The blogs
beat
them to it. I suspect that if you asked GW if any of his dad's friends
put
in a good word for him to get him into the Air Guard, he would say, "I
assume they did, yes. Why not?" I don't think there were many doctor's
sons
who passed the draft physical, if they wanted to flunk it. Definitely
not
heroic, but not uncommon either. Bush would have been an officer (like
Kerry) in any case, and officers had more choices even when they ended
up
in Vietnam.

Philip Carroll wrote:

Well, Bush wouldn't have been an officer "like Kerry", as Bush
received a direct appointment, bypassing any required officer
training. The only case of that happening for a pilot, as far as I
have been able to determine. Kerry actually had to go to officer's
training. I suppose it was that 25 percentile that Bush scored that
qualified him to skip all that unnecessary officer training.

Don't bet your boat on that 25th percentile figure. I know where it comes
from and it's not from a news source. It's originally from a Bush-hater's
online list of all the grievous sins of GW Bush, most of which are complete
fabrications or the deliberate misreading of a military document. But if
you do bet on it, bet with another raving liberal that cares nothing for
the truth. Then you may have a chance.

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:43:22 -0000 (GMT), "John Deere"
wrote:

felton wrote:

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 01:14:50 -0000 (GMT), "John Deere"
wrote:

Since the White House only got copies of the documents this week, from
CBS,
for comment on the story, they maybe didn't have time to consult
multiple
experts on document authenticity and get the reports back. The blogs
beat
them to it. I suspect that if you asked GW if any of his dad's friends
put
in a good word for him to get him into the Air Guard, he would say, "I
assume they did, yes. Why not?" I don't think there were many doctor's
sons
who passed the draft physical, if they wanted to flunk it. Definitely
not
heroic, but not uncommon either. Bush would have been an officer (like
Kerry) in any case, and officers had more choices even when they ended
up
in Vietnam.

Philip Carroll wrote:

Well, Bush wouldn't have been an officer "like Kerry", as Bush
received a direct appointment, bypassing any required officer
training. The only case of that happening for a pilot, as far as I
have been able to determine. Kerry actually had to go to officer's
training. I suppose it was that 25 percentile that Bush scored that
qualified him to skip all that unnecessary officer training.

Don't bet your boat on that 25th percentile figure. I know where it comes
from and it's not from a news source. It's originally from a Bush-hater's
online list of all the grievous sins of GW Bush, most of which are complete
fabrications or the deliberate misreading of a military document. But if
you do bet on it, bet with another raving liberal that cares nothing for
the truth. Then you may have a chance.

Not from a news source?

FACT: Bush Scored in 25th Percentile on Pilot Aptitude Test. When Bush
applied for the Guard, his score on the Air Force pilot aptitude
section, one of five on the test, was in the 25th percentile, the
lowest allowed for would-be fliers. [Dallas Morning News, 7/4/99]

There are dozens of sources for this, and unless you include MSNBC as
a "Bush-haters online list", you are full of crap.

Feel free to find ONE source that disputes the 25 Percentile score,
other than your own opinion, and we can go from there.

We know he wasn't a shining star, otherwise we would all have his GPA on the
tube every 10 miniutes.
"John Deere" wrote in message
news:bHV0ZWZpc2s=.81129a92e9ec1e636a4db3b550309663 @1094791402.nulluser.com...
felton wrote:

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 01:14:50 -0000 (GMT), "John Deere"
wrote:

Since the White House only got copies of the documents this week, from
CBS,
for comment on the story, they maybe didn't have time to consult
multiple
experts on document authenticity and get the reports back. The blogs
beat
them to it. I suspect that if you asked GW if any of his dad's friends
put
in a good word for him to get him into the Air Guard, he would say, "I
assume they did, yes. Why not?" I don't think there were many doctor's
sons
who passed the draft physical, if they wanted to flunk it. Definitely
not
heroic, but not uncommon either. Bush would have been an officer (like
Kerry) in any case, and officers had more choices even when they ended
up
in Vietnam.

Philip Carroll wrote:

Well, Bush wouldn't have been an officer "like Kerry", as Bush
received a direct appointment, bypassing any required officer
training. The only case of that happening for a pilot, as far as I
have been able to determine. Kerry actually had to go to officer's
training. I suppose it was that 25 percentile that Bush scored that
qualified him to skip all that unnecessary officer training.

Don't bet your boat on that 25th percentile figure. I know where it comes
from and it's not from a news source. It's originally from a Bush-hater's
online list of all the grievous sins of GW Bush, most of which are
complete
fabrications or the deliberate misreading of a military document. But if
you do bet on it, bet with another raving liberal that cares nothing for
the truth. Then you may have a chance.

In article bHV0ZWZpc2s=.b006ca2047413a79e91d30c92f02c074@109 4778890.nulluser.com,
John Deere wrote:
Since the White House only got copies of the documents this week, from CBS,
for comment on the story, they maybe didn't have time to consult multiple
experts on document authenticity and get the reports back. The blogs beat
them to it. I suspect that if you asked GW if any of his dad's friends put
in a good word for him to get him into the Air Guard, he would say, "I
assume they did, yes. Why not?" I don't think there were many doctor's sons
who passed the draft physical, if they wanted to flunk it. Definitely not
heroic, but not uncommon either. Bush would have been an officer (like
Kerry) in any case, and officers had more choices even when they ended up
in Vietnam.

My understanding is that Kerry actually showed up for all his
physicals.




--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:25:44 -0400, Philip Carroll wrote:

Funny, the Bush camp isn't denying their authenticity.

Perhaps, because they could be authentic. In all the smoke, mud, and
mirrors, it's difficult to say with any certainty what the "truth" is this
election year, but . . .

This document (for all I know, it could have been doctored) purportedly
released by Bush, has a superscript. Note the second line. Also note,
further down that 111th is not superscripted.

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/superscrptth.jpg

John Deere wrote:
ridiculous paranoid freetard crap snipped

You'll believe *anything*, won't you?

Wanna buy a sailboat from Granada? Only a teesy-weensy bit of storm
danmage.

--
// Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

Barnes in a 1999 article said he called Guard on Bush's behalf - no
debunking by daughter then?



Barnes says he called Guard on Bush's behalf

By Michael Holmes
Associated Press Writer
Story last updated at 12:10 p.m. on Tuesday, September 28, 1999

AUSTIN, Texas -- The former speaker of the Texas House of
Representatives acknowledged Monday that he called the head of the
Texas Air National Guard in 1968 to recommend George W. Bush for a
pilot slot during the Vietnam War.

But Ben Barnes, who later was lieutenant governor, said the request
for his help came from a Bush family friend -- not Bush or his father,
who then was a congressman.

The Texas governor and Republican presidential front-runner,
meanwhile, insisted again that neither he nor his father sought such
assistance when he joined the Guard.

''I can tell you what happened. Nothing happened. My Guard unit was
looking for pilots and I flew for the Guard,'' Bush said at a campaign
appearance south of Houston.

''I'm proud of my service and any allegation that my dad asked for
special favors is simply not true. ... I didn't ask anybody to help
get me to the Guard either,'' Bush said.

Barnes, a Democrat, has been at the center of questions about Bush's
Vietnam-era service for several weeks.

His name surfaced in a lawsuit filed in federal court in Dallas by the
former executive director of the Texas Lottery. Lawrence Littwin has
sued GTECH Corp., the lottery operator, alleging that the company is
to blame for his firing in 1997, after four months on the job.

According to court records, Littwin's lawyers wanted to question
Barnes, who used to lobby for GTECH, about whether GTECH was allowed
to keep its lucrative state contract in exchange for Barnes' silence
about the Guard matter.

That theory has been dismissed as unfounded by GTECH, Barnes and Bush.
Barnes testified for several hours Monday in a deposition in the case.

Afterwards, his lawyer issued a written statement saying Barnes had
been contacted by the now-deceased Sidney Adger, a Houston oilman and
friend of the elder Bush.

''Mr. Barnes was contacted by Sid Adger and asked to recommend George
W. Bush for a pilot position with the Air National Guard. Barnes
called Gen. (James) Rose (Texas Air Guard commander) and did so,'' the
statement said.

''Neither Congressman Bush nor any other member of the Bush family
asked Barnes' help. Barnes has no knowledge that Governor Bush or
President Bush knew of Barnes' recommendation,'' the statement said.

Barnes also said he met in September 1998 with Donald L. Evans, a
longtime friend and chief fund-raiser for Governor Bush. Barnes told
Evans about Adger's request, and ''Governor Bush wrote Barnes a note
thanking him for his candor in acknowledging that Barnes received no
call from any member of the Bush family.''

In an interview with The Associated Press, Evans said he met with
Barnes on his own initiative, without informing the governor in
advance. At the time, he was Bush's gubernatorial campaign chairman
and was concerned only about that contest, Evans said.

Bush joined the National Guard in 1968, at the height of the Vietnam
War, serving until late 1973.

The Republican governor has said for several years that he received no
special treatment. Both he and his father, the former president, have
said they didn't ask for help in finding the Guard opening.

''I don't know if Ben Barnes did or not -- but he was not asked by me
or my dad,'' Bush said Monday.

''People are relying on whether a man who is deceased (Adger) tried to
help. I can just tell you, from my perspective, I never asked for, I
don't believe I received any special treatment,'' Bush said.

Bush indicated that he wasn't concerned about Barnes' deposition.
''I think everybody ought to tell the truth when they're being
deposed. I'm confident he will,'' Bush said. ''I'm not sure what Ben
Barnes is going to say. But I know what the facts are.''

Asked if he considered questions about his National Guard service a
personal attack, Bush replied, ''I think it's just politics.''

http://www.ardmoreite.com/stories/09...w_barnes.shtml

OBVIOUSLY, SINCE THIS ARTICLE WAS WRITTEN IN 1999, IT HAD NOTHING TO
DO WITH JOHN KERRY'S CAMPAIGN.





Walt wrote in message ...
John Deere wrote:
ridiculous paranoid freetard crap snipped

You'll believe *anything*, won't you?

Wanna buy a sailboat from Granada? Only a teesy-weensy bit of storm
danmage.

On 10 Sep 2004 05:41:31 -0700, (Riddick) wrote:

Barnes in a 1999 article said he called Guard on Bush's behalf - no
debunking by daughter then?



Barnes says he called Guard on Bush's behalf

By Michael Holmes
Associated Press Writer
Story last updated at 12:10 p.m. on Tuesday, September 28, 1999

AUSTIN, Texas -- The former speaker of the Texas House of
Representatives acknowledged Monday that he called the head of the
Texas Air National Guard in 1968 to recommend George W. Bush for a
pilot slot during the Vietnam War.

But Ben Barnes, who later was lieutenant governor, said the request
for his help came from a Bush family friend -- not Bush or his father,
who then was a congressman.

Yeah, that story is not new. Bush appears to take great comfort in
the fact that it was a family friend and not his father who pulled the
strings with Ben Barnes. No surprise there, really. Bush Sr
obviously called the family friend who acted on his behalf. It is not
surprising that Bush Sr didn't want to directly call a Democratic
politician when he obviously had markers out with others. It all
depends on who owes who favors. I am sure that the family friend
didn't undertake this on his own initiative out of the goodness of his
heart. GWB obviously had "friends in high places" to get moved to the
front of the line, given his commission without any training and sent
directly to flight school. That is one thing, but to be excused from
meeting his minimal obligations to the Guard is another, particularly
when the alternative would have been to actually serve in Vietnam.


"NBC News uncovered footage of President Bush insulting thousands of
Vietnam veterans who were killed or injured in combat. Bush said in
1988 that the government "probably should have called the National
Guard up in those days -- maybe we'd have done better in Vietnam."

Yeah, maybe they should have called up the Champaign Squadron of GWB.