"John Cairns" wrote in message
.. .
| Well, I would drop the "considerably" faster and use another adjective,
| though none come to mind. Speed is relative, the average sailboat isn't
very
| fast. Since I started racing I am a more attuned to the numbers, in any
| event I still wouldn't consider the CR a "fast" offshore cruiser.

I don't dispute your contention that racing regularly attunes you to
numbers..... but your position that the Cabo 38 isn't a fast offshore
crusier is remarkably uninformed. Since you are formulating these
conjectures without practical experience on the vessel... I'm left to
question not only your reasoning but your objectives as well.

To date you have failed to supply hard data to disprove my claim.

I'll stand by what I said.

CM

No, I didn't supply the hard data, you did. Surely you haven't forgotten
your calculator? You reminded me that you supplied the link.
Your calculator doesn't claim a CR 38 can do 11 kts. As far as being attuned
to the numbers goes, all that it means is that I've been in the habit of
looking at phrf #'s for some time now, and am generally aware of how fast
different boats can go.You aren't claiming a CR 38 can plane, are you? Maybe
you have a different definition of "fast". In any event, I spent a fair
amount of time crossing the Atlantic, sailing from Bermuda, and to the
Bahamas on a boat that is correctly labeled as a "fast" offshore cruiser,
phrf rating of 54, and even we couldn't average 11kts. in 15 knots of wind
on a beam reach in pretty flat seas. Now explain to me how a CR 38 with a
rating of 177 can do 11 kts. TO WEATHER? You know, I don't have any
practical experience driving a Yugo, but I can tell you with a fair amount
of certainty that it will not go 150 mph. Fast offshore cruisers are capable
of closing in on 200 mile days, I'd be surprised if the CR 38 can do much
north of 150, which, by most accounts, is "average."

John Cairns

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...

"John Cairns" wrote in message
.. .
| Well, I would drop the "considerably" faster and use another adjective,
| though none come to mind. Speed is relative, the average sailboat isn't
very
| fast. Since I started racing I am a more attuned to the numbers, in any
| event I still wouldn't consider the CR a "fast" offshore cruiser.

I don't dispute your contention that racing regularly attunes you to
numbers..... but your position that the Cabo 38 isn't a fast offshore
crusier is remarkably uninformed. Since you are formulating these
conjectures without practical experience on the vessel... I'm left to
question not only your reasoning but your objectives as well.

To date you have failed to supply hard data to disprove my claim.

I'll stand by what I said.

CM

John.. the boat did 11 knots crossing Yellowbank.. thats a fact.

CM

"John Cairns" wrote in message
m...
| No, I didn't supply the hard data, you did. Surely you haven't forgotten
| your calculator? You reminded me that you supplied the link.
| Your calculator doesn't claim a CR 38 can do 11 kts. As far as being
attuned
| to the numbers goes, all that it means is that I've been in the habit of
| looking at phrf #'s for some time now, and am generally aware of how fast
| different boats can go.You aren't claiming a CR 38 can plane, are you?
Maybe
| you have a different definition of "fast". In any event, I spent a fair
| amount of time crossing the Atlantic, sailing from Bermuda, and to the
| Bahamas on a boat that is correctly labeled as a "fast" offshore cruiser,
| phrf rating of 54, and even we couldn't average 11kts. in 15 knots of wind
| on a beam reach in pretty flat seas. Now explain to me how a CR 38 with a
| rating of 177 can do 11 kts. TO WEATHER? You know, I don't have any
| practical experience driving a Yugo, but I can tell you with a fair amount
| of certainty that it will not go 150 mph. Fast offshore cruisers are
capable
| of closing in on 200 mile days, I'd be surprised if the CR 38 can do much
| north of 150, which, by most accounts, is "average."
|
| John Cairns
|
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
| ...
|
| "John Cairns" wrote in message
| .. .
| | Well, I would drop the "considerably" faster and use another
adjective,
| | though none come to mind. Speed is relative, the average sailboat
isn't
| very
| | fast. Since I started racing I am a more attuned to the numbers, in
any
| | event I still wouldn't consider the CR a "fast" offshore cruiser.
|
| I don't dispute your contention that racing regularly attunes you to
| numbers..... but your position that the Cabo 38 isn't a fast offshore
| crusier is remarkably uninformed. Since you are formulating these
| conjectures without practical experience on the vessel... I'm left to
| question not only your reasoning but your objectives as well.
|
| To date you have failed to supply hard data to disprove my claim.
|
| I'll stand by what I said.
|
| CM
|
|
|
|
|
|

John.. the boat did 11 knots crossing Yellowbank.. thats a fact.


WAS THERE A CURRENT INVOLVED???


RB

Capt. Mooron wrote:
I don't dispute your contention that racing regularly attunes you to
numbers..... but your position that the Cabo 38 isn't a fast offshore
crusier is remarkably uninformed.

Of course... you *have* to say that!

... Since you are formulating these
conjectures without practical experience on the vessel... I'm left to
question not only your reasoning but your objectives as well.

To date you have failed to supply hard data to disprove my claim.

I'll stand by what I said.

Well, it hinges a on a couple of things... what do you mean by "fast"
and what do you mean by "offshore cruiser"? For example, the Saga 43 and
her sisters are often touted as "fast offshore cruisers." Nobody in
their right mind would doubt that a Saga 43 would sail rings around a CR
38 in most conditions, but it's a bigger boat & a newer design... plus
it's got a (gasp) fin keel.

I took the liberty of firing up my huge database of boat specs, and did
some sorting. From a list of a couple hundred boats that were close to
the Cabo Rico 38 in displacement & LOD (a more honest measure of size
than LOA) I sorted through to get 50 that most would agree are fit for
offshore sailing, then sorted them by calculated speed (Vmax not hull
speed). Few of these boats have PHRF ratings BTW.

The Cabo Rico 38 came out 34th on the list, well under halfway down.
Conclusion- below average in speed potential.

Some faster boats from the list:
Bayfield 40, Island Packet 37, Corbin 39, Pacific Seacraft 40, Morgan
41, Robinhood 40 (the old Little Harbor 38), Shannon 37, Wright 40, Swan
38....

Slower boats: Hallberg-Rassy 36, Tartan 37 (?!?), Allied Mistress, Alden
38, Nor'Sea 37, Baba 35, Nauticat 38... the amazing thing is that some
boats were calculated as slower than the Nauticat, which is a very heavy
high-sided motorsailer.

Sorry, Mooron... I'm not trying to pass judgement on a boat I have no
experience with, but it's hard to justify calling it fast unless there
is something more to the story here... maybe the one you were sailing
was a secret experimental version?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Yeah Okay... I've been out on site for the last while here..... Cape Breton
Highlands.

I emailed my friend Beth and she contacted Alex who has the logs for the
trip. He won't be back until the 15th.of this month [Holman Island on
Geotechnical} ... just when I start my project.

At any rate once I get a copy of the logs dealing with that portion of the
trip I'll post them to webshots. Beth was on the trip and concurs on a fast
passage but does not remember the exact speeds. My brother concurs on the
speed but does not remember the exact point of sail.
So I'm still relying on my recollections which I remember as just high of a
beam reach.. and to weather. [ Not close hauled]

Basically until I front up some evidence I'll have to take it on the chin
around here.

No Doug it wasn't experimental and I doubt a Corbin 39 could match a Cabo
38.. I have sailed both vessels. The Bayfield 40 would be left well behind
both the Corbin39 and the Cabo38. I haven't sailed the Bayfield 40 but I
have sailed the Bayfield 32... it's a slug! So are all the Bayfields...
exceptionally slow vessels. You'd better adjust your "numbers" .

CM


"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
| Capt. Mooron wrote:
| I don't dispute your contention that racing regularly attunes you to
| numbers..... but your position that the Cabo 38 isn't a fast offshore
| crusier is remarkably uninformed.
|
| Of course... you *have* to say that!
|
| ... Since you are formulating these
| conjectures without practical experience on the vessel... I'm left to
| question not only your reasoning but your objectives as well.
|
| To date you have failed to supply hard data to disprove my claim.
|
| I'll stand by what I said.
|
| Well, it hinges a on a couple of things... what do you mean by "fast"
| and what do you mean by "offshore cruiser"? For example, the Saga 43 and
| her sisters are often touted as "fast offshore cruisers." Nobody in
| their right mind would doubt that a Saga 43 would sail rings around a CR
| 38 in most conditions, but it's a bigger boat & a newer design... plus
| it's got a (gasp) fin keel.
|
| I took the liberty of firing up my huge database of boat specs, and did
| some sorting. From a list of a couple hundred boats that were close to
| the Cabo Rico 38 in displacement & LOD (a more honest measure of size
| than LOA) I sorted through to get 50 that most would agree are fit for
| offshore sailing, then sorted them by calculated speed (Vmax not hull
| speed). Few of these boats have PHRF ratings BTW.
|
| The Cabo Rico 38 came out 34th on the list, well under halfway down.
| Conclusion- below average in speed potential.
|
| Some faster boats from the list:
| Bayfield 40, Island Packet 37, Corbin 39, Pacific Seacraft 40, Morgan
| 41, Robinhood 40 (the old Little Harbor 38), Shannon 37, Wright 40, Swan
| 38....
|
| Slower boats: Hallberg-Rassy 36, Tartan 37 (?!?), Allied Mistress, Alden
| 38, Nor'Sea 37, Baba 35, Nauticat 38... the amazing thing is that some
| boats were calculated as slower than the Nauticat, which is a very heavy
| high-sided motorsailer.
|
| Sorry, Mooron... I'm not trying to pass judgement on a boat I have no
| experience with, but it's hard to justify calling it fast unless there
| is something more to the story here... maybe the one you were sailing
| was a secret experimental version?
|
| Fresh Breezes- Doug King
|

"Bobsprit" wrote in message

| WAS THERE A CURRENT INVOLVED???

DUH!!!... Bahamas!!! Of course there was!

Now you are sounding like John Cairns.... the Lake Racer and Global Traveler
who has only managed to claim 2 items from his many adventures, a photo
album and an erection whenever he hears the words "Heh Sailor...Jiggy Jiggy
Five dollars?"

CM

| WAS THERE A CURRENT INVOLVED???

DUH!!!... Bahamas!!! Of course there was!


So what was the CR 38's speed through water, Mooron. You were doing 11 knots
sustained over land via GPS, but not through water.

RB

Capt. Mooron wrote:
No Doug it wasn't experimental and I doubt a Corbin 39 could match a Cabo
38.. I have sailed both vessels.

I wonder what was wrong with the Corbin 39 you sailed. I've sailed one
too. For a tank it's pretty good.

...The Bayfield 40 would be left well behind
both the Corbin39 and the Cabo38. I haven't sailed the Bayfield 40 but I
have sailed the Bayfield 32... it's a slug! So are all the Bayfields...
exceptionally slow vessels. You'd better adjust your "numbers" .

Yeah, I was surprised when that one showed up. I think the "sail area"
numbers published by Bayfield include the genoa, not just the
foretriangle. I have not sailed a Bayfield 40 but have some of their
smaller boats, and yeah, they're slugs.

So we can agree that among slugs & tanks, the Cabo Rico 38 is fast?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| | WAS THERE A CURRENT INVOLVED???
|
| DUH!!!... Bahamas!!! Of course there was!
|
|
| So what was the CR 38's speed through water, Mooron. You were doing 11
knots
| sustained over land via GPS, but not through water.

Cripes Bob... you were there?? Where the heck were you hiding?

The log ...... bets on sustained higest speeds on the crossing..... across
Yellowbanks to the first Island on the Exuma Chain. Average crossing speed
was well below that.

Wait till I get the log sent to me will ya.... that will clarify
matters.... and then I'll either gloat or bloat on crow.

CM