The true sail area (with 100% foretriangle) for the CR38 is 763, not
969.

That's what I figured. Most 38' cruising tanks don't have 900 sq. ft. + of
sail area. As usual the 2 biggest mouths on here prove once again they know
nothing about boats. They do keep me laughing though.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

,,Overproof has exceeded her calculated hull speed on many occasions... for
extended periods.

And the group is always in awe of you and the Boob's stories.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

Well you should remember that the Boobster told us he did 13kts in 8kts of wind
with his 70s era tub.


I'd sure like to see Loco-the-loser find THAT post!!!!

RB

Have no idea how fast a Nordica 30 is, don't recall seeing phrf #'s. Never
attempted to do any reverse calculations, ie., how fast is a particular boat
based on it's phrf #, but I feel it is a useful tool when comparing boats of
similar length. BTW, more than one responder on the CR list told me they
didn't consider their CR38 to be a fast boat, no one, including the lake
sailors, claimed their boat would do 11 kts.

SPEED/LENGTH RATIO (V/ L.5): This is the speed in knots divided by the
square root of the LWL. For example, a 25 foot waterline sailboat moving at
5.5 knots would be at a V/ L.5 of 1.1. while a 400 foot LWL destroyer
travelling at 22 knots also has a V/ L.5 of 1.1. Both vessels would develop
about the same resistance per ton of displacement as they are both running
at the same V/ L.5.
The limiting speed for a pure displacement hull is a V/ L.5 of 1.34. Above
this speed the stern wave moves aft so that the stern loses bouyancy, the
hull squats, and great additional power is necessary for a small gain in
speed. In truth, the typical cruising sailboat probably averages a V/ L.5 of
about .9 - 1.0 and only gets close to 1.3 when reaching in a stiff breeze.
Tender boats may never get above 1.2 as the crew has to ease sheets when the
rail buries!

The modern beamy, super light ocean racer can have a stern wide enough to
resist squatting and the stability to stand up to a breeze so often achieves
speeds well above 1.4, but that is semi-planing and the boat is getting lift
aft due to its speed. My BOC 60 design exceeded 20 knots at times, a V/ L.5
ratio of over 2.6, but those are very specialised yachts.

Ted Brewer " Understanding Boat Design 4th. Edition"

http://www.tedbrewer.com/yachtdesign.html

John Cairns



"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...

John you can be as surprised as you like.... I'm certain of the figures
but
won't have the documentation to offer until well into the middle of next
month.

Insofar as the owner's response..... there is a Nordica 30 owner right
here with a sister ship to mine that claims he has never gotten beyond 6
knots of speed from the vessel. I understood that statement when I first
sailed along side him in my boat. His vessel will not do over 6 knots...
but
it has nothing to do with the vessel's abilities and all to do with it's
set-up and handling.

Now you'll tell me that a speed of over 9 knots sustained is impossible on
Overproof I suppose!

CM

"John Cairns" wrote in message
om...
| Don't remember that one, but I was surprised by Mooron's statement, so
| surprised that I let it pass for a while. When I first saw the statement
| "11kts in 6 ft of water" my initial reaction is that he was loaded and
got
| the numbers backwards. Then he insisted it was correct, and offered to
post
| proof in the form of log entries that he was going to post to his
webshots
| album. In any event, got some info from folks on the Cabo Rico list, at
| least one of whom indicated that the CR38 is slower than I imagined,
even
| got an offer to take a tour of a boat in Port Clinton, Ohio, hope to do
that
| before the season ends.
|
| "If you are going to windward, a 150 mile day is going to be hard to do.
On
| a
| reach or downwind with the right sails it is easy to do. The CR38 has a
29
| ft
| waterline so it does about 7kts if the wind and sails are right, and
| because
| it has a full keel (lots of wetted surface) the bottom needs to be kept
| clean"
|
| Quote from an owner, which were my thoughts about hull speed, too much
| wetted surface, too short a LWL. Still a great blue water boat, just not
a
| fast one.
|
| John Cairns
|
| "SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
| ...
| Claiming that a CR 38 will do 11 knots is
| a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
|
| Well you should remember that the Boobster told us he did 13kts in
8kts
of
| wind
| with his 70s era tub.
| S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
| "Trains are a winter sport"
|
|

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
| ,,Overproof has exceeded her calculated hull speed on many occasions...
for
| extended periods.
|
| And the group is always in awe of you and the Boob's stories.

So... that puts you in the realm of those who believe a boat cannot surpass
her theoretical hull speed??

Do tell.....

Loco it's obvious you think that your opinion matters..... but frankly
speaking you are an intellectual midget and any thoughts you feel obligated
to impart are held suspect as to logic or rational.

Now.... Run along and have a crabcake.

CM

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
| The true sail area (with 100% foretriangle) for the CR38 is 763, not
| 969.
|
| That's what I figured. Most 38' cruising tanks don't have 900 sq. ft. +
of
| sail area. As usual the 2 biggest mouths on here prove once again they
know
| nothing about boats. They do keep me laughing though.

Is that what you fiqured out is it???
Wow Loco..... now why don't you tell us what else you've "fiqured out"??
Tell us again what news item or interview assisted you in making this
assumption?
Tell me again how a 20 minute interview makes you an expert on anything.

I doubt it takes more than a windchime to keep you giggling and amused for
hours Loco!

You are an Idiot.... Really!
I mean that in the nicest way.

CM

So... that puts you in the realm of those who believe a boat cannot surpass
her theoretical hull speed??

No, I know better ............... ULDBs can get up on a plane under certain
conditions and ULDBs and mid displacement boats can surf also under certain
conditions but one fact remains. Heavy displacement full keelers can't do
either. So that lets you out.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

there is a Nordica 30 owner right
here with a sister ship to mine that claims he has never gotten beyond 6
knots of speed from the vessel..

Some people are honest.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

Loco,

I really didn't want to get into this but the TransPac fleets, once they
get into the "Trades" flying their Spinnakers have been known to peg out
their Speedometers for hours on the Hawaii Run while surfing.

I've been on full keelers that have been designed for racing with cut
away bottoms that will surf and track in double figure speeds. I've done
it going down the New Jersey Coast.

These are special cases so I know the tales can be true. I also know
that the stories of fast passages, above hull speed, are subject to
questions.

So be it, if it makes a good story.

Ole Thom

Jeff Morris wrote:
The true sail area (with 100% foretriangle) for the CR38 is 763, not 969. The
SA/Disp is actually 15.79, not 20. And the Hull Speed is 7.33, making a
sustained 11 knot through the water rather unlikely. And I noticed someone
attributed it to Ellis (who designed the NE38, renamed NE400, as well as the
Nonsuch's) but it actually came from the board of Bill Crealock.

My bad. You're right, it is a Crealock design. I don't know where I got
the mistaken idea it was from Mark Ellis.

Like many production boats, it's also much modified over the production
run. The hull shape is as he designed it, but I'm not sure how much else it.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King