Subject: DR practice
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 07/18/2004 17:31 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

One
reason straight DR in zero visibility may be frowned on with planes.

no, the reason it is illegal is that you can not know where you are. period,
as in can not.

DR in a boat is okay when you are hundreds of miles from any rocks. It is
not
okay when there is anything around to hit.

In all the years you've harped on this subject, it's become painfully clear you
have not and can not grasp the basic practices of "DR".
You've read somplace that the term should only be ded reckoning and that it
only involves speed,time, and heading, and will go to your death bed "knowing"
that anything else is sacrilege.
Problem is, most who spend any time on the water have learned to use other
things to help improve their "DR" plots so that they can safely navigate where
you would never tread.
Problem is, these things don't fit in your narrow view of DR, so you can't
accept them as being DR or being useful and trying to explain these things to
you is a waste of time as you can't seem to comprehend them or make use of
them.
In reality, you need to do or watch someone do these things, so you can learn
how to do them but odds of you ever doing that are slim to none.

Don't waste your time responding, as I know you will not have understood the
point being made.

Shen

PS recreational boats regularly hit rocks even with gps

Jaxie's simplistic mind can't cope with mixing two concepts. He confuses "using
DR" with "relying 100% on DR." He never figured out that combining DR with
other info, such as observing lobster pots, depth soundings, and fog signals is
generally adequate.

He seems terrified of coastal cruising, but at the same time claims that
learning both DR and piloting techniques is worthless. My favorite "jaxisms"
involve his misunderstanding of piloting and his belief that compasses are
worthless.

-------------------

On Navigation (or is he talking about snakes?):
This one kept us going for a month or so - Jax insists that piloting skills are
not needed in sight of land.

"scootss, you need *piloting* to "get around" in the Cheasepeake? All that
water and land and islands and markers and lights and boas confuse you?"

-------------------

Just to make sure he meant that:

you claimed that
piloting skills are not needed for sailing waters like LIS.

"They are not. You can see everything easily. Getting lost on western LIS is
impossible (unless you're dumb enough to go out in one of the rare fogs.)"

-----------
... Somewhere in there you implied
that taking a course on navigation was a total waste of time and money.

"You need a nav course to see a daymarker a half mile away? (besides, one of the
**serious** problems of a nav course -- as taught by the USPS -- is that a
compass and knot log is all you need to avoid hitting the rocks in a fog.)"

------------------------
on compasses and navigation:
Jax has a pathological fear of using a compass. Since he never learned any
piloting skills, he believes the compass is useless:

"a compass never has told you anything other than which way is North and so
never was worth much as a "navigation" tool."
---------
"no, jeffie, this the point that JAX with the experience tells you without that
you can't navigate with a compass."

--------------------------------
On variation & compasses:
Since he never uses a compass, he doesn't understand variation:

I think it's about 14 degree east here in nyc.

That's strange, my chart of New York City says
"Var 13 degrees 15 minutes WEST"

jeff, if you say it's west instead of east, I say okay. I use charts of nyc
area to know where the rocks are. Compass isn't much use there, is it?

--------------------------
On compass dip and variation, he thinks dip is built into the compass:

"markie, dip is a function of the compass construction. Variation is a function
of the Earth. Anyone who claims to be "The Navigator" should know this, don't
you think?"

EG Jeff, I think you got the makins of a book here.
Title page:
JAXAshby Rules of Navigation
or
Navigation By Dummies

footnote: all rules compiled from FAA regulations
caution: nothing contained in this book should be taken seriously,
except by those exclusively using their backyard wading pool (maximum
water depth, 4") for their boating needs.

Jeff Morris wrote:
Jaxie's simplistic mind can't cope with mixing two concepts. He confuses "using
DR" with "relying 100% on DR." He never figured out that combining DR with
other info, such as observing lobster pots, depth soundings, and fog signals is
generally adequate.

He seems terrified of coastal cruising, but at the same time claims that
learning both DR and piloting techniques is worthless. My favorite "jaxisms"
involve his misunderstanding of piloting and his belief that compasses are
worthless.

-------------------

On Navigation (or is he talking about snakes?):
This one kept us going for a month or so - Jax insists that piloting skills are
not needed in sight of land.

"scootss, you need *piloting* to "get around" in the Cheasepeake? All that
water and land and islands and markers and lights and boas confuse you?"

-------------------

Just to make sure he meant that:


you claimed that
piloting skills are not needed for sailing waters like LIS.


"They are not. You can see everything easily. Getting lost on western LIS is
impossible (unless you're dumb enough to go out in one of the rare fogs.)"

-----------

... Somewhere in there you implied
that taking a course on navigation was a total waste of time and money.


"You need a nav course to see a daymarker a half mile away? (besides, one of the
**serious** problems of a nav course -- as taught by the USPS -- is that a
compass and knot log is all you need to avoid hitting the rocks in a fog.)"

------------------------
on compasses and navigation:
Jax has a pathological fear of using a compass. Since he never learned any
piloting skills, he believes the compass is useless:

"a compass never has told you anything other than which way is North and so
never was worth much as a "navigation" tool."
---------
"no, jeffie, this the point that JAX with the experience tells you without that
you can't navigate with a compass."

--------------------------------
On variation & compasses:
Since he never uses a compass, he doesn't understand variation:

I think it's about 14 degree east here in nyc.


That's strange, my chart of New York City says
"Var 13 degrees 15 minutes WEST"


jeff, if you say it's west instead of east, I say okay. I use charts of nyc
area to know where the rocks are. Compass isn't much use there, is it?

--------------------------
On compass dip and variation, he thinks dip is built into the compass:

"markie, dip is a function of the compass construction. Variation is a function
of the Earth. Anyone who claims to be "The Navigator" should know this, don't
you think?"

change to FAA, all physicists on the planet, and all knowledgeable mariners.

EG Jeff, I think you got the makins of a book here.
Title page:
JAXAshby Rules of Navigation
or
Navigation By Dummies

footnote: all rules compiled from FAA regulations
caution: nothing contained in this book should be taken seriously,
except by those exclusively using their backyard wading pool (maximum
water depth, 4") for their boating needs.

Jeff Morris wrote:
Jaxie's simplistic mind can't cope with mixing two concepts. He confuses
"using
DR" with "relying 100% on DR." He never figured out that combining DR
with
other info, such as observing lobster pots, depth soundings, and fog
signals is
generally adequate.

He seems terrified of coastal cruising, but at the same time claims that
learning both DR and piloting techniques is worthless. My favorite
"jaxisms"
involve his misunderstanding of piloting and his belief that compasses are
worthless.

-------------------

On Navigation (or is he talking about snakes?):
This one kept us going for a month or so - Jax insists that piloting skills
are
not needed in sight of land.

"scootss, you need *piloting* to "get around" in the Cheasepeake? All that
water and land and islands and markers and lights and boas confuse you?"

-------------------

Just to make sure he meant that:


you claimed that
piloting skills are not needed for sailing waters like LIS.


"They are not. You can see everything easily. Getting lost on western LIS
is
impossible (unless you're dumb enough to go out in one of the rare fogs.)"

-----------

... Somewhere in there you implied
that taking a course on navigation was a total waste of time and money.


"You need a nav course to see a daymarker a half mile away? (besides, one
of the
**serious** problems of a nav course -- as taught by the USPS -- is that a
compass and knot log is all you need to avoid hitting the rocks in a fog.)"

------------------------
on compasses and navigation:
Jax has a pathological fear of using a compass. Since he never learned any
piloting skills, he believes the compass is useless:

"a compass never has told you anything other than which way is North and so
never was worth much as a "navigation" tool."
---------
"no, jeffie, this the point that JAX with the experience tells you without
that
you can't navigate with a compass."

--------------------------------
On variation & compasses:
Since he never uses a compass, he doesn't understand variation:

I think it's about 14 degree east here in nyc.


That's strange, my chart of New York City says
"Var 13 degrees 15 minutes WEST"


jeff, if you say it's west instead of east, I say okay. I use charts of
nyc
area to know where the rocks are. Compass isn't much use there, is it?

--------------------------
On compass dip and variation, he thinks dip is built into the compass:

"markie, dip is a function of the compass construction. Variation is a
function
of the Earth. Anyone who claims to be "The Navigator" should know this,
don't
you think?"

Jaxie's simplistic mind can't cope with mixing two concepts. He confuses
"using
DR" with "relying 100% on DR." He never figured out that combining DR with
other info, such as observing lobster pots, depth soundings, and fog signals
is
generally adequate.


jeffies, what you describe above is not DR, but rather pilotage. HUGE
difference in the number or rocks a boat might hit.

DR, even by your definition, is one component of Piloting. While DR is not
"perfect" (not that anything is) it is still useful. But since you don't know
how DR or any other form of piloting works, you'll never understand.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Jaxie's simplistic mind can't cope with mixing two concepts. He confuses
"using
DR" with "relying 100% on DR." He never figured out that combining DR with
other info, such as observing lobster pots, depth soundings, and fog signals
is
generally adequate.


jeffies, what you describe above is not DR, but rather pilotage. HUGE
difference in the number or rocks a boat might hit.

it
only involves speed,time, and heading,

shen, that *IS* the definition of ded reckoning. what you describe "improved"
DR is in fact pilotage, a whole different breed of cat.

Subject: DR practice
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 08/07/2004 07:02 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

it
only involves speed,time, and heading,

shen, that *IS* the definition of ded reckoning. what you describe
"improved"
DR is in fact pilotage, a whole different breed of cat.



No jaxass. That is YOUR limited definition of DR.
What I described is NOT piloting, as piloting involves fixes.
In truth, the two can be and frequently are, used in conjunction, but that's
beyond you -you're still at the "definition" stage.

Shen

pilotAGE, not pilotING. there is a difference, dood.

What I described is NOT piloting,

Subject: DR practice
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 08/07/2004 14:22 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

pilotAGE, not pilotING. there is a difference, dood.

What I described is NOT piloting,


ROFL Maybe you'd best say what you're talking about then since you're soo hung
up on these definitions.
Obviously you aren't discussing my pay scale........ then again......

Shen