"She's Dead Jim"......

I've been on a couple of Macs... the 19 the 26X. I've sailed on them.... [
and I use the term lightly].... in a variety of conditions. In each case
and condition..... the vessels have never disappointed me in their ability
to deliver substandard performance parameters and yet exceed the boundaries
of discomfort.

What truly renders this magnificent design so unique...... is it's
capacity to operate as either a power boat or sailboat while maintaining
it's reputation as the worst of both worlds.

Now you may well see this as boat bashing..... but in truth it's merely
enlightenment. The Macgregor is a vessel suited to those of little cash, no
experience and lacking all concept of boating in general.

The boat is suited for it's purpose...... I believe that you merely feel
uncomfortable with the mantle dictated by ownership.

Don't worry Jim... we're laughing at you .... not with you. ;-)

CM


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
|
|
| Capt. Mooron wrote:
| CRIPES!!!!!!!
|
| I tagged the basics and ended up with a cost of over 32 grand for what
| amounts to a dangerously under rigged, cheap plastic piece of **** with
the
| PHRF rating of a margarine container.
|
| You won't get pussy on that boat unless you have a "As when And Where"
| contract with a brothel.
|
| I can't see any major difference between the "X" & "M"......
|
| CM
|
|
|
| There are major differences between the two boats, including an entirely
| new hull design, new keel, new sail configuration, different ballast,
| etc., etc., etc. These differences have been discussed in detail in the
| past few weeks.
|
| Of course, if you are more interested in posting Mac-Bashing notes on
| the ng and getting "atta-boys" from your buddies, you probably don't
| have much interest in the facts, do you CM?
|
| Jim
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| "Scott Vernon" wrote in message
| ...
| | Just look at the POS!
| | http://www.havencraft.com/Index.asp
| |
| | A pic is worth a thousand words, in this case all negative.
| |
| | Scotty
| |
|
|
|

"Jim Cate" wrote in message

| In other words, can you back up your (libelous) remarks?

Yes....

CM

Capt. Mooron wrote:

"She's Dead Jim"......

I've been on a couple of Macs... the 19 the 26X. I've sailed on them.... [
and I use the term lightly].... in a variety of conditions. In each case
and condition..... the vessels have never disappointed me in their ability
to deliver substandard performance parameters and yet exceed the boundaries
of discomfort.

What truly renders this magnificent design so unique...... is it's
capacity to operate as either a power boat or sailboat while maintaining
it's reputation as the worst of both worlds.

Now you may well see this as boat bashing..... but in truth it's merely
enlightenment. The Macgregor is a vessel suited to those of little cash, no
experience and lacking all concept of boating in general.

The boat is suited for it's purpose...... I believe that you merely feel
uncomfortable with the mantle dictated by ownership.

Don't worry Jim... we're laughing at you .... not with you. ;-)

CM


You've sailed several Macs (but not the 26M). I've sailed O'Days,
Catalinas, Valiants, Endeavors, Cals, etc., in the 30 to 40 ft range.
They all have their good points, but none of them compares with the Mac
as far as versatility and resolution of the time issue.

Jim






"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
|
|
| Capt. Mooron wrote:
| CRIPES!!!!!!!
|
| I tagged the basics and ended up with a cost of over 32 grand for what
| amounts to a dangerously under rigged, cheap plastic piece of **** with
the
| PHRF rating of a margarine container.
|
| You won't get pussy on that boat unless you have a "As when And Where"
| contract with a brothel.
|
| I can't see any major difference between the "X" & "M"......
|
| CM
|
|
|
| There are major differences between the two boats, including an entirely
| new hull design, new keel, new sail configuration, different ballast,
| etc., etc., etc. These differences have been discussed in detail in the
| past few weeks.
|
| Of course, if you are more interested in posting Mac-Bashing notes on
| the ng and getting "atta-boys" from your buddies, you probably don't
| have much interest in the facts, do you CM?
|
| Jim
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| "Scott Vernon" wrote in message
| ...
| | Just look at the POS!
| | http://www.havencraft.com/Index.asp
| |
| | A pic is worth a thousand words, in this case all negative.
| |
| | Scotty
| |
|
|
|

katysails wrote:

Now Jim, I'm going to tell you a true story, and if you've been lurking here
for as long as you say you have, you know I don't make things up. When we
had our O'Day 27 up for sale, which by the way was a 1976 model...the old
variety, the good variety of O'day, a young couple came to look at the boat.
They sat with us down in the cabin, with very forlorn faces. You see, they
had purchased a brand new Mac26X the previous summer, hated it and couldn't
sell it. They wanted to know if we would trade....needless to say, the
answer was "no". We did not bash their boat, but commiserated with them.
He stated that yes, it was great to motor around in, and that it would get
up and boogie under engine power, but that it stank as a sailboat. There
are several that "sail" on Muskegon Lake...they are not fast...they are not
even mediocre...when they can't get the thing to sail on the wind, they rev
up the engine's to reposition themselves. And that's the truth, whether you
want to admit it or not. Remember, an awful lot of people bought things
like Gremlins, Yugo's and Pacers...and they to went the way of most things
useless.

I don't doubt your story. (And it is, after all, an antidote that
doesn't say much about the other 30,000 Mac owners.) But I suspect that
if they were sailing their Mac near the Gulf coast as I will be, instead
of on a lake, there would be plenty of wind to keep them sailing.

I also notice that the contributors to the very active Mac discussion
groups seem as enthusiastic about sailing their boats and racing their
boats as those on any owner group on the net. Some of them have been
sailing their boats for years, and they are still getting great pleasure
from them.

As has also been discussed, those who have sailed the new 26M tell me
that its sailing performance is substantially improved.

Jim

Capt. Mooron wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote in message

| In other words, can you back up your (libelous) remarks?

Yes....

CM

Really? Then let's see your statistics Capt. If, as you say, the Mac 26
is only a "cheap plastic piece of ****" that is "dangerously under
rigged," then there must be hundreds of them that are falling apart
every year, right? And since MacGregor has sold over 30,000 boats,
there must be at least 5,000 of them in which the rigging has come apart
in a moderate wind, or in which the boat has simply self-destructed and
sunk. - Right? If it's dangerously under rigged, the rigging must be
coming apart every time they go out in moderate winds.

Where's your stats on all those Macs that are falling apart because they
are "cheap plastic pieces of ****" and
"dangerously under rigged." - Give us some hard evidence without the
usual antecdotes, Mooron.

Put up or shut up.

Jim

katysails wrote:

Jim asked:
What education or degrees do you have that relate to aesthetics?

Actually, I did take some art courses, and I've visited art museums in
many countries and observed the design of lots of boats over the years.
But if you read my note carefully, I didn't actually claim to be an
expert in aesthetics. In fact, I didn't say anything about the good
looks of the new Mac, since it's all very subjective, and in the eye of
the beholder anyway, as you say. (It's not surprising that a klutz like
Johnathan wouldn't be capable of appreciating it.)

Actually, all I did was question Johnathan as to why anyone should
respect HIS opinions regarding boat design or aesthetics.

Jim



Give me a break. Now you are being absolutely ludicrous. Aesthetics is in
the eye of the beholder...and that includes art. There is no degree that
teaches you that. Aesthetics come from experience, from knowing what works,
what is practical, what is beautifful. Do you see any of the top boat
designers designing sailboats that look like Macs? NO! I'd venture Bob
Perry would gag. I'd say Buddy Melges would have a stroke. The French
designers would spit on you. Maybe you'd find someone in your court from
the old Coronado/Irwin camps....but probably not. You are buying a
butt-ugly, unaesthetic boat that is neither fish nor foul but a
hermaphrodite. And like most hermaphrodites, it is impotent.

And none of them except the Mac would be bought by a fool like you.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Capt. Mooron wrote:

"She's Dead Jim"......

I've been on a couple of Macs... the 19 the 26X. I've sailed on them....
[
and I use the term lightly].... in a variety of conditions. In each
case
and condition..... the vessels have never disappointed me in their
ability
to deliver substandard performance parameters and yet exceed the
boundaries
of discomfort.

What truly renders this magnificent design so unique...... is it's
capacity to operate as either a power boat or sailboat while maintaining
it's reputation as the worst of both worlds.

Now you may well see this as boat bashing..... but in truth it's merely
enlightenment. The Macgregor is a vessel suited to those of little
cash, no
experience and lacking all concept of boating in general.

The boat is suited for it's purpose...... I believe that you merely
feel
uncomfortable with the mantle dictated by ownership.

Don't worry Jim... we're laughing at you .... not with you. ;-)

CM


You've sailed several Macs (but not the 26M). I've sailed O'Days,
Catalinas, Valiants, Endeavors, Cals, etc., in the 30 to 40 ft range.
They all have their good points, but none of them compares with the Mac
as far as versatility and resolution of the time issue.

Jim






"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
|
|
| Capt. Mooron wrote:
| CRIPES!!!!!!!
|
| I tagged the basics and ended up with a cost of over 32 grand for
what
| amounts to a dangerously under rigged, cheap plastic piece of ****
with
the
| PHRF rating of a margarine container.
|
| You won't get pussy on that boat unless you have a "As when And
Where"
| contract with a brothel.
|
| I can't see any major difference between the "X" & "M"......
|
| CM
|
|
|
| There are major differences between the two boats, including an
entirely
| new hull design, new keel, new sail configuration, different ballast,
| etc., etc., etc. These differences have been discussed in detail in
the
| past few weeks.
|
| Of course, if you are more interested in posting Mac-Bashing notes on
| the ng and getting "atta-boys" from your buddies, you probably don't
| have much interest in the facts, do you CM?
|
| Jim
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| "Scott Vernon" wrote in message
| ...
| | Just look at the POS!
| | http://www.havencraft.com/Index.asp
| |
| | A pic is worth a thousand words, in this case all negative.
| |
| | Scotty
| |
|
|
|

Well, there are a lot of idiots in the world. 30,000 seems like a small
number.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
I don't doubt your story. (And it is, after all, an antidote that
doesn't say much about the other 30,000 Mac owners.) But I suspect that
if they were sailing their Mac near the Gulf coast as I will be, instead
of on a lake, there would be plenty of wind to keep them sailing.

Well, what do you expect them to say... that they got ripped off??

I also notice that the contributors to the very active Mac discussion
groups seem as enthusiastic about sailing their boats and racing their
boats as those on any owner group on the net. Some of them have been
sailing their boats for years, and they are still getting great pleasure
from them.

Sort of like you being "above average" in intelligence?

As has also been discussed, those who have sailed the new 26M tell me
that its sailing performance is substantially improved.

Jim

He doesn't have to. Most Macs get sailed once, then
the person gets something else, shuts up about his/her
"sailing experience," drowns, or posts like you.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Capt. Mooron wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote in message

| In other words, can you back up your (libelous) remarks?

Yes....

CM

Really? Then let's see your statistics Capt. If, as you say, the Mac 26
is only a "cheap plastic piece of ****" that is "dangerously under
rigged," then there must be hundreds of them that are falling apart
every year, right? And since MacGregor has sold over 30,000 boats,
there must be at least 5,000 of them in which the rigging has come apart
in a moderate wind, or in which the boat has simply self-destructed and
sunk. - Right? If it's dangerously under rigged, the rigging must be
coming apart every time they go out in moderate winds.

Where's your stats on all those Macs that are falling apart because they
are "cheap plastic pieces of ****" and
"dangerously under rigged." - Give us some hard evidence without the
usual antecdotes, Mooron.

Put up or shut up.

Jim

MacBoy,

Actually, given your lack of sophistication, I'm not shocked that
you would like they're looks.

And, FYI, if you don't think I have a valid point about the Mac
being butt-ugly, then why are you so worked up about it??

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


katysails wrote:

Jim asked:
What education or degrees do you have that relate to aesthetics?

Actually, I did take some art courses, and I've visited art museums in
many countries and observed the design of lots of boats over the years.
But if you read my note carefully, I didn't actually claim to be an
expert in aesthetics. In fact, I didn't say anything about the good
looks of the new Mac, since it's all very subjective, and in the eye of
the beholder anyway, as you say. (It's not surprising that a klutz like
Johnathan wouldn't be capable of appreciating it.)

Actually, all I did was question Johnathan as to why anyone should
respect HIS opinions regarding boat design or aesthetics.

Jim



Give me a break. Now you are being absolutely ludicrous. Aesthetics is
in
the eye of the beholder...and that includes art. There is no degree
that
teaches you that. Aesthetics come from experience, from knowing what
works,
what is practical, what is beautifful. Do you see any of the top boat
designers designing sailboats that look like Macs? NO! I'd venture Bob
Perry would gag. I'd say Buddy Melges would have a stroke. The French
designers would spit on you. Maybe you'd find someone in your court
from
the old Coronado/Irwin camps....but probably not. You are buying a
butt-ugly, unaesthetic boat that is neither fish nor foul but a
hermaphrodite. And like most hermaphrodites, it is impotent.