"Undesirable alien" buying a US flagged boat
 

jeffies, you are no more an admiralty lawyer than you are a lingere model.

***people have lost their documentation because a noncitizen was found
operating the vessel with no citizen aboard***

There are several different issues going on here. One is "control" as in
ownership, and the law as are very clear - documented vessels must be owned
by
citizens. The stockholders of a holding corporation must be mostly citizens,
etc.

Jax is also claiming that the operator of the vessel must also be a citizen -
in
particular he's claiming that if you loan or charter your documented vessel
to a
non-citizen you at in violation. I found the CPR that specifically permits
chartering of recreational vessels, and I've never heard that loaning is
forbidden. If it were anyone but jaxie I'd be tempted to call the CG and
ask.



"Dave" wrote in message
...
On 11 Mar 2004 01:46:10 GMT, (JAXAshby) said:

sorry, jeffies, people have lost their documentation by letting
noncitizens
control (meaning no citizen onboard) their documented boats.

I'd suggest you take a careful look at the meaning of "control" in this
context, bearing in mind that there are specific provisions dealing with
owners, officers and directors of a corporation. My suspicion is that
"control" is not synonymous with "operate." For example, if a person has
the
power to elect a majority of a corporation's directors, he's generally said
to "control" the corporation, and might also be said to "control" the
vessel
owned by the corporation, even if he's 1000 miles away from it.




Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

"Undesirable alien" buying a US flagged boat
 

felton, the mags report a specific story of exactly that happening every few
years, always with the owner bitching he didn't know.

Most of the time in a boarding the coasties don't much care and if the guy has
a US drivers license they consider him a citizen.

nevertheless, if they do check for citizenship and do find a problem, the boat
owner has a problem.

and fleton, quit claiming you are thinking.

no, fleton. you were NOT thinking. quit lying like that.

Perhaps you would post a link to a case where someone loses their
documentation for allowing a foreigner to sail their boat without a
citizen aboard. You should really call your nearest community college
and ask any freshman pre-law student to explain the verbage you posted
about "effective control" as it relates to ownership. Next you will
be claiming I can't loan my car to a foreigner or I will lose title to
my vehicle.


sorry, jeffies, people have lost their documentation by letting
noncitizens
control (meaning no citizen onboard) their documented boats.

I'd suggest you take a careful look at the meaning of "control" in this
context, bearing in mind that there are specific provisions dealing with
owners, officers and directors of a corporation. My suspicion is that
"control" is not synonymous with "operate." For example, if a person has
the
power to elect a majority of a corporation's directors, he's generally
said
to "control" the corporation, and might also be said to "control" the
vessel
owned by the corporation, even if he's 1000 miles away from it.




Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

I was thinking the same thing, Dave. In the context that Jax quoted,
but seems to misunderstand, I gathered the term control was *as in
effective ownership*, not the simple operation of a boat. In other
words, no "citizen" acting as a straw man while the boat is
effectively owned, or controlled, by a noncitizen.

"Undesirable alien" buying a US flagged boat
 

I just want to buy the boat then get out fast.

skip the middle step. just get out fast. buy a boat somewhere else. NZ for
instance, or France which you love so much.

"Undesirable alien" buying a US flagged boat
 

felton wrote:

Not that I would recommend such a devious scheme, but in the world of
"what ifs"...

What if you sold the boat to a willing buyer, for say $10,000. At the
same time, the new buyer grants you an option to purchase the boat for
$10,000 and hires you to deliver the boat to Europe, where the new
buyer plans to cruise the boat. Plans change for unforeseen
circumstances once the boat is in Europe, say somewhere in the Antwerp
area, and you exercise your option to purchase the boat. The boat is
then registered in Belgium and tax is paid based on it's purchase
price of $10,000.

An alternative might be to sell a partnership interest to an American,
who could document the boat. Transport the boat to Europe. Register
the boat, terminate the partnerhsip.

I would hate to see you part with a boat for purely paperwork
complexities. Think form over substance...that is how the government
works:)

the first 'what if' scheme looks promising (at last a ray of light through the red tape). Let's say
I would go with this scenario and that I already had someone who would be willing to play along ...
would anybody be interested to crew (part of) the trip? (just remove the "no.s" from the email
adress to answer directly)

BTW: how did you know I was from the "say somewhere in the Antwerp area" ? :)

Frank

"Undesirable alien" buying a US flagged boat
 

dum dum, *you* said *you* broke a Brit law and they wish to arrest you for it.
that is not our problem, but rather yours.

we don't give visas to people who are wanted for criminal actions in other
countries.

are you really just on this ng because you are trying to flog some dumb book
about your criminal actions in the UK? is that why in the entire world this is
the only place you can buy a boat?

yeah, the guy knowingly and deliberately committed a crime breaking a low
the
Brits feel is vital for their national security.

Read my book you muppet. You don't know what you are talking about clearly.

Now, the clown wants us to grant him a visa so he can what? Knowingly and
deliberately commit a crime breaking a law we feel vital for our national
security?

What law might that be? Buying a boat is now a crime in the USA? Wouldn't
surprise me...

"Undesirable alien" buying a US flagged boat
 

the squathead is flogging a book. nothing more.

Buy it somewhere else - we don't need you business

Actually I think your country does need the business, with record currnet
account imbalance you'd probably quite like a couple of hundred thousand
hard euros in the bank. The USD is just monopoly money these days.

"Undesirable alien" buying a US flagged boat
 

Caryl Chessman was not a killer, as I recall. Kates, for someone who =
said she
didn't know who the guy was you certainly made some strong =
incriminations.

Google Caryl Chessman.....

I just did. through several pages of google, no mention that Chessman killed
anyone.

kates, you still think he was "cute"?

"Undesirable alien" buying a US flagged boat
 

France would be a great country if the French would leave.

Oh there's always loonies out there, especially in Amerika. But here in
France people are better balanced, and also not so gun-crazy.

"Undesirable alien" buying a US flagged boat
 

bob, the dum-dum is flogging a book, trying to make money off his criminal
actions.

if he really wanted to buy a boat there are lots of places to buy one. Indeed,
the French areas of the Caribbean are reportedly chock-a-block with boats
sailed by Frenchies there and then left behind.

France would be a great country if the French would leave.

Oh there's always loonies out there, especially in Amerika. But here in
France people are better balanced, and also not so gun-crazy.

"Undesirable alien" buying a US flagged boat
 

On 11 Mar 2004 10:02:13 -0600, Dave wrote:

On 11 Mar 2004 04:59:27 GMT, (JAXAshby) said:

dave, *I* suggest you take a look at the word "control" as interpreted by the
courts.

Don't need to, Jax. I've been a practicing lawyer for 30 years, and the term
"control" and its meaning comes up about once a week in my practice areas.
Matter of fact, I've written 3 legal memoranda in the last month on the
meaning of "control" under various statutes and regulations.


Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

Oh great, now Jax will challenge you to a math contest:) Jax is a
classic example of a person who doesn't recognize the things he
doesn't comprehend. Most of us, at a certain stage in life, learn to
tell the difference.