katysails wrote:

Jim stated:
Again, an evaluation of the quality of the boat depends on the criteria
used in the evaluation, and how the boat will be used.

So the MacGregor obviously fits OYUR criteria...go buy one, but don't come
whining back here...but then, maybe you're like Horvath with his blind love
of Hunter's....

1) As you suggested, I did place an order for one of the 26M's.

2) I won't come whining back to the group.

3) I'll be glad to report on my sailing experiences if anyone is
interested.

Jim

It sounds to me like you're not really listening. Macs have a terrible
reputation. Having seen several of them around, seen them "sail" or
"motor," and talked to a few owners, I wouldn't consider getting any
of them. There are better boats for the same money. Several people
have said basically the same thing over and over.

Are you really that thick?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

This note concerns the issue of intellectual honesty.

As a follow-up to and summary of the many responses generated by this
question, several hundreds of usually negative, usually dogmatic
statements were posted regarding the MacGregor 26M, but none were posted
by anyone who had actually sailed the 26M. Also, as far as I can
determine, none were posted by anyone who had even spoken to someone who
had actually sailed the boat. (Correct me if I missed one.)
Additionally, there was a long string of comments by posters who had
obviousaly confused various previous MacGregor boats with the current
26M (which incorporates major, substantive changes from the previous
models). Additionally, most writers were not willing, even when
corrected by knowledgeable members of the group, to admit that they were
talking about another boat and didn't actually know what the 26M entailed.

In other words, as a summary of this long and convoluted series of
pontifications, few participants had the intellectual honesty to admit
that they really didn't know what the hell they were talking about in
the first place. - Of course, this doesn't meant that the 26M is a great
boat. - But it does say something about the character and (lack of)
intellectual honesty of many who posted under this subject string.

Jim


Jim Cate wrote:


I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

It sounds to me like you're not really listening.


It sounds to me like you're not really listening.

Jim




Macs have a terrible
reputation. Having seen several of them around, seen them "sail" or
"motor," and talked to a few owners, I wouldn't consider getting any
of them. There are better boats for the same money. Several people
have said basically the same thing over and over.

Are you really that thick?

Ok. Well, I think we're pretty much finished with you. Just about
everyone, including Jax, has tried to be helpful. You're not having
any. And, I guess we'll just have to live with the fact that either you're
not too bright or an asshole who is not too bright.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

It sounds to me like you're not really listening.


It sounds to me like you're not really listening.

Jim




Macs have a terrible
reputation. Having seen several of them around, seen them "sail" or
"motor," and talked to a few owners, I wouldn't consider getting any
of them. There are better boats for the same money. Several people
have said basically the same thing over and over.

Are you really that thick?

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Ok. Well, I think we're pretty much finished with you. Just about
everyone, including Jax, has tried to be helpful. You're not having
any. And, I guess we'll just have to live with the fact that either you're
not too bright or an asshole who is not too bright.

Well, Johathan, if I'm that dumb, or that much of an asshole, I'm
assuming that you won't be reading any more of my notes or responding to
them. - In that case, all you have to do is to press the "down arrow"
(on the lower right side of your keyboard), and you can quickly
pass by my notes and move on to another topic. Or, even more convenient,
you can easily set up a filter that will filter out all my notes, and
all notes addressed to me, so that you don't even have to hit your
"down" arrow.

So your problems are solved, Johathan. - If you meant what you said,
that is.

Jim

jim, buy the Mac and motor it to your heart's content. HOWEVER, you are
forbidden from buying an EPIRB. That would be unethetical on your part and
would doom you to Hell for eternity.



This note concerns the issue of intellectual honesty.

As a follow-up to and summary of the many responses generated by this
question, several hundreds of usually negative, usually dogmatic
statements were posted regarding the MacGregor 26M, but none were posted
by anyone who had actually sailed the 26M. Also, as far as I can
determine, none were posted by anyone who had even spoken to someone who
had actually sailed the boat. (Correct me if I missed one.)
Additionally, there was a long string of comments by posters who had
obviousaly confused various previous MacGregor boats with the current
26M (which incorporates major, substantive changes from the previous
models). Additionally, most writers were not willing, even when
corrected by knowledgeable members of the group, to admit that they were
talking about another boat and didn't actually know what the 26M entailed.

In other words, as a summary of this long and convoluted series of
pontifications, few participants had the intellectual honesty to admit
that they really didn't know what the hell they were talking about in
the first place. - Of course, this doesn't meant that the 26M is a great
boat. - But it does say something about the character and (lack of)
intellectual honesty of many who posted under this subject string.

Jim


Jim Cate wrote:


I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

JAXAshby wrote:

jim, buy the Mac and motor it to your heart's content. HOWEVER, you are
forbidden from buying an EPIRB. That would be unethetical on your part and
would doom you to Hell for eternity.





Would I be permitted to buy a chart plotter, depth-knot, autosteering,
or VHF?

Jim

you are
forbidden from buying an EPIRB. That would be unethetical on your part and
would doom you to Hell for eternity.


Would I be permitted to buy a chart plotter, depth-knot, autosteering,
or VHF?


nope.


Jim

C'mon Jax, give the pedant a break. I saw a mac motoring out the race
equipped with radar.Gave me pause. Kind of like a mouse crawling up an
elephants leg with rape on its mind.

On 01 Apr 2004 15:52:48 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

you are
forbidden from buying an EPIRB. That would be unethetical on your part and
would doom you to Hell for eternity.


Would I be permitted to buy a chart plotter, depth-knot, autosteering,
or VHF?


nope.


Jim

Jim Cate wrote:

Would I be permitted to buy a chart plotter, depth-knot, autosteering,
or VHF?

What's a "depth-knot"?


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music