Careful Jon, the older Macs (pre X ) were pretty good little boats.

SV

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Well, the Mac line of boats are bottom of the barrel. Not sure what
else "we" can tell you. If you like/want the compromise, go for it.
At this point, I'm not sure what you're looking for here.

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
Well, this discussion string is now up to around 250 responses, not
including my own. It's interesting that no one has commented on my
initial "both and" rather than "either or" plan. As you may recall, I
stated that:

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the
Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours
on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used
30
- 32-foot boats.

In other words, my plan was to consider getting a 26M Mac for: (1) it's
obvious advantages in shallow bay waters and close-in coastal cruising
(such as, for fishing, and for getting to fishing or sailing areas
quickly and for returning quickly, for anchoring in areas where small
childred (grandkids) could swim, for beaching on local islands, etc.),
AND ALSO (2) to continue to charter larger boats for more extended
cruising without the younger (3 to 5 year old) set.

In any event, it's obvious that my note and my refusal to "cave" are
either generating increasing frustration or providing some perverse form
of pleasure to participants in this discussion string.
(No one, after all, is required to participate.)

Again, I'm not asking for agreement or "approval" or even acquiescence.
I would like to seem some semblance of logic, rationality and
intellectual honesty, however. - Like, for starters, talking about the
same boat I'm talking about.

Jim



Jim Cate wrote:


I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have
some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and
doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant,
although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots
under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina
to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel
(which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the
years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the
video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the
Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours
on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used
30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring
characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

Careful Jon, the older Macs (pre X ) were pretty good little boats.


The older Macs, like Coronado's and a few other low end makes were built at the
lowest price point possible and were passable at best.
A "pretty good little boat" is a C&C 25, Cape Dory 25, Pearson 26 and so on.

RB

Scott Vernon wrote:

Careful Jon, the older Macs (pre X ) were pretty good little boats.

Yeah, what he said!

Xtually the Mac26 PowR-SailR isn't a bad boat if you understand it's limits and
agree with the basic design philosophy. MacGregor has always built their boats
to be very inexpensive but that doesn't necessarily make them bad, or flimsy.
There are a heck of a lot of 20 and 30 year old Ventures & MacGregors out there
sailing.

Most of the older MacGregor models sail fairly well. Some are quite good, the
Mac 25, which was the predecessor to the older water ballast 26, has left many a
more expensive & prestigious yacht in it's wake.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

which was the predecessor to the older water ballast 26, has left many a
more expensive & prestigious yacht in it's wake.

Meaning what exactly? A Mac 25 will outrun a Dana 24 as well.
I guess you'd call the Mac a "better" boat.

RB

Isn't the M25 in the Sail hall of fame? Ever seen a Mac/Venture 23' cutter
rigged? Cool looking boat.

Scotty

SV

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Scott Vernon wrote:

Careful Jon, the older Macs (pre X ) were pretty good little boats.

Yeah, what he said!

Xtually the Mac26 PowR-SailR isn't a bad boat if you understand it's
limits and
agree with the basic design philosophy. MacGregor has always built their
boats
to be very inexpensive but that doesn't necessarily make them bad, or
flimsy.
There are a heck of a lot of 20 and 30 year old Ventures & MacGregors out
there
sailing.

Most of the older MacGregor models sail fairly well. Some are quite good,
the
Mac 25, which was the predecessor to the older water ballast 26, has left
many a
more expensive & prestigious yacht in it's wake.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Xtually the Mac26 PowR-SailR isn't a bad boat if you understand it's limit

How PC is this comment? Let's look at these so called "limits."

Mac 26X or M

Ugly design
Very light build quality
Poor sailing performance
Poor power boat performance
Not cheap compared to better used boats

Yeah...I guess if you're okay with that, then the Mac26 is GREAT! I also have a
1983 OMC saildrive for sale...great if you understand it's limits.

RB

RB

They were probably better than the current brew, but I don't have
any direct experience with any of them.

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Careful Jon, the older Macs (pre X ) were pretty good little boats.

SV

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Well, the Mac line of boats are bottom of the barrel. Not sure what
else "we" can tell you. If you like/want the compromise, go for it.
At this point, I'm not sure what you're looking for here.

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
Well, this discussion string is now up to around 250 responses, not
including my own. It's interesting that no one has commented on my
initial "both and" rather than "either or" plan. As you may recall, I
stated that:

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier
boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the
Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for
hours
on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many
used
30
- 32-foot boats.

In other words, my plan was to consider getting a 26M Mac for: (1)
it's
obvious advantages in shallow bay waters and close-in coastal cruising
(such as, for fishing, and for getting to fishing or sailing areas
quickly and for returning quickly, for anchoring in areas where small
childred (grandkids) could swim, for beaching on local islands, etc.),
AND ALSO (2) to continue to charter larger boats for more extended
cruising without the younger (3 to 5 year old) set.

In any event, it's obvious that my note and my refusal to "cave" are
either generating increasing frustration or providing some perverse
form
of pleasure to participants in this discussion string.
(No one, after all, is required to participate.)

Again, I'm not asking for agreement or "approval" or even
acquiescence.
I would like to seem some semblance of logic, rationality and
intellectual honesty, however. - Like, for starters, talking about the
same boat I'm talking about.

Jim



Jim Cate wrote:


I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the
Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or
sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have
some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and
doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can
therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home
yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the
boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant,
although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots
under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah
marina
to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the
depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice.
Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. -
It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel
(which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other
structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the
years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is
clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the
video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat;
it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier
boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the
Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours
on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many
used
30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring
characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

I would like to seem some semblance of logic, rationality and
intellectual honesty, however. - Like, for starters, talking about the
same boat I'm talking about.


Jim, few "sailors" favor the Mac. To them it's both ugly and ungainly. It won't
sail well compared to a traditional sailing vessel and this is a "sailing NG,
so the responses are easy to understand. About the only place where you might
find favor is in a Mac26 discussion group.
I've responded to your comments honestly and thoughtfully. It's a boat. If you
like it, buy it.
I'm out of this one, folks.

RB
C&C 32
City Island, NY

This note concerns the issue of intellectual honesty.

As a follow-up to and summary of the many responses generated by this
question, several hundreds of usually negative, usually dogmatic
statements were posted regarding the MacGregor 26M, but none were posted
by anyone who had actually sailed the 26M. Also, as far as I can
determine, none were posted by anyone who had even spoken to someone who
had actually sailed the boat. (Correct me if I missed one.)
Additionally, there was a long string of comments by posters who had
obviousaly confused various previous MacGregor boats with the current
26M (which incorporates major, substantive changes from the previous
models). Additionally, most writers were not willing, even when
corrected by knowledgeable members of the group, to admit that they were
talking about another boat and didn't actually know what the 26M entailed.

In other words, as a summary of this long and convoluted series of
pontifications, few participants had the intellectual honesty to admit
that they really didn't know what the hell they were talking about in
the first place. - Of course, this doesn't meant that the 26M is a great
boat. - But it does say something about the character and (lack of)
intellectual honesty of many who posted under this subject string.

Jim


Jim Cate wrote:


I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

Jim...MacGregor's have a poor reputation. They have made some very bad
boats. Most of us here have experience sailing many different brands of
boats and have been around sailors and sailboats for years and years. Your
analogy about intellectual honesty is bunkum. Fact of the matter is, if a
product gets negative brand recognition because of lack of quality, it will
take 75% more effort to convince the knowledgeable that that company might
then, out of the blue, produce a good product. If you were in the market
for a subcompact car, and you read the history of the Yugo, spoke with
people who had purchased Yugo's, and seen the statistics about their rate of
repair and other problems, would you then include Yugo in the cars you are
planning to test drive? I think not. Time is money, and wating time is
wasting money. Yes, there are flukes...once in a while a company with a bad
reputation comes up with a single good item...Hunter comes to mind
here...but for the most part, Hunter's are crap, and that is based on
comparison of facts. macGregor's , for the most part, are crap. Now quit
wasting everyone's time with your specious arguments and go learn how to
sail.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein