"Bobsprit" wrote

Gilligan's Island, CHIPS, Pet Rocks, Dr. Pepper, Jerry Springer, Kia and
Paris
Hilton are all my favorites.


RB

So you're not going to be a dickhead anymore?



As much as it will dissapoint some people here, the character of Bobsprit is
retired. I'm married and soon to be a father. I have a deal set for a sailing
book. There are only so many ways to kick a dead horse and I think I covered
most of them.
Need any oars, Scotty? 20 bucks to Alt.Sailing.Asa members.

RB

Two piece or solid? 6'?

On 02 Mar 2004 13:56:39 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

Are you getting the canvas from your friend who never showed up to
give me a quote?

That guy was good for deals, but really unreliable time-wise. He offered me a
complete dodger for 500 bucks, but then wasn't even sure he could get it to me
before this spring! He's a good guy, but way overextended and a poor business
man. Too bad because he does nice work. He made a dodger for catalina with SS
frame, grab handles, zip out windows and even a built in cockpit light for 700
bucks.
My ebay sales worked out to make a deal with a local canvas guy who does work
for the City Island yards. I'm basically paying nothing for the dodger. I'll
let you know how well it turns out.
Let me know if you need a set of oars..I'll give you a nice 6 foot pair for 20
bucks!

RB

Bobsprit wrote:
You need to read the notes you respond to more carefully. What I said was:


Jim, while this group can offer valid and often helpful advice, they soon tire
of a subject and turn to school yard in-fighting. It's been the nature of
Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take any of
it seriously.
The Mac line of power sailors is generally considered by MANY to be ugly, cheap
and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are. I was aboard
a new M at the AC Boat show (I didn't even know it wasn't called the 26X
anymore). It was a laughable excuse for a power or sailboat. I was told it
could do nearly 25 knots, though 3 foot chop would cut that by a 3rd. A 3rd?
Such a loss of performance from moderate chop is indicative of design limits
too steep for my blood.
Few people, other than a Mac owner will encourage you to buy one. While it may
be the "best" compromise between power and sail, the trade offs are downright
offensive to sailors. If you have sailed good sailboats, I seriously think
you'll be dissapointed in the Mac and regret buying one.

Best of Luck,

Robert B
C&C 32, Alien
NY

Robert,
In any event, my notes apparently provide some entertainment value to
the group, since this seems to be one of the more active current
discussion topics. I was aware of the general reputation of the Mac
boats before posting my questions, but I was looking for information
about the new model, that includes significant mods that may have
resolved at least some of the limitations of previous models. Looking
for some "logical" and "rational" advice.

I appreciate your balanced and helpful comments. I'm aware that all
boats, including the Mac, would entail compromises for my particular
intended uses in the Galveston-Kemah environment. I'm not settled on a
trailorable boat, and there are lots of used, larger boats available in
our area. As mentioned previously, if I bought a fixed-keel boat I would
plan to leave it with a local charter company to minimize the time spent
in maintaining and checking on the boat. I wouldn't expect to get a
positive cash flow from the rentals, but my CPA mentioned that there may
be some tax benefits from such an arrangement. - It's largely a matter
of minimizing marina fees and being able to leave the boat with someone
who would keep an eye on it. I plan to meet with the charterer this
week and then check out some of the used boats they might accept.

Boats offered for sale in this area in the $20,000 - $30,000 price range
include 30 to 33-foot: Catalinas, S-2s, (older) Pearsons, Cals, C&Cs,
Siedlemanns, Hunters (nasty word - sorry), Columbias, Ericsons, and
several others that I wasn't familiar with. These boats vary in age
(1970 - 1985) and condition, but many of the ads claim that they have
been carefully maintained and upgraded. For more money, there are some
Tartans, O'Days, Sabres, Island Packets, etc. Although I would
obviously need to check out the condition and equipment of the boats and
obtain a survey if I were seriously considering one, do you have any
suggestions as to what to look for in this price range and venue?
Features that I think would be important a roller reefing and lines
led aft; wheel steering (required by the charter company); adequate sail
inventory in good condition; diesel engine in good condition; suitable
electronics; clean interior and recent bottom treatment; through-hull
valves, sump pumps, etc., in either new or good condition; no evidence
of water in the bilge; fun, fast, and exciting to sail, etc. For the
Houston weather, air conditioning would be nice, although few of the
boats also have an on-board generator to power it at anchor. Also, what
about one of the retractable-extendable keel boats, or the shoal draft
boats, for our shallow bay waters? - Would this mess up the offshore
sailing capabilities?

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.

Jim

sniff, sniff.......kinda funny how 'Jim' and 'Bob' use the same phrases and
misspell the same words.

SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Bobsprit wrote:
You need to read the notes you respond to more carefully. What I said
was:


Jim, while this group can offer valid and often helpful advice, they
soon tire
of a subject and turn to school yard in-fighting. It's been the nature
of
Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take
any of
it seriously.
The Mac line of power sailors is generally considered by MANY to be
ugly, cheap
and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are. I was
aboard
a new M at the AC Boat show (I didn't even know it wasn't called the 26X
anymore). It was a laughable excuse for a power or sailboat. I was told
it
could do nearly 25 knots, though 3 foot chop would cut that by a 3rd. A
3rd?
Such a loss of performance from moderate chop is indicative of design
limits
too steep for my blood.
Few people, other than a Mac owner will encourage you to buy one. While
it may
be the "best" compromise between power and sail, the trade offs are
downright
offensive to sailors. If you have sailed good sailboats, I seriously
think
you'll be dissapointed in the Mac and regret buying one.

Best of Luck,

Robert B
C&C 32, Alien
NY

Robert,
In any event, my notes apparently provide some entertainment value to
the group, since this seems to be one of the more active current
discussion topics. I was aware of the general reputation of the Mac
boats before posting my questions, but I was looking for information
about the new model, that includes significant mods that may have
resolved at least some of the limitations of previous models. Looking
for some "logical" and "rational" advice.

I appreciate your balanced and helpful comments. I'm aware that all
boats, including the Mac, would entail compromises for my particular
intended uses in the Galveston-Kemah environment. I'm not settled on a
trailorable boat, and there are lots of used, larger boats available in
our area. As mentioned previously, if I bought a fixed-keel boat I would
plan to leave it with a local charter company to minimize the time spent
in maintaining and checking on the boat. I wouldn't expect to get a
positive cash flow from the rentals, but my CPA mentioned that there may
be some tax benefits from such an arrangement. - It's largely a matter
of minimizing marina fees and being able to leave the boat with someone
who would keep an eye on it. I plan to meet with the charterer this
week and then check out some of the used boats they might accept.

Boats offered for sale in this area in the $20,000 - $30,000 price range
include 30 to 33-foot: Catalinas, S-2s, (older) Pearsons, Cals, C&Cs,
Siedlemanns, Hunters (nasty word - sorry), Columbias, Ericsons, and
several others that I wasn't familiar with. These boats vary in age
(1970 - 1985) and condition, but many of the ads claim that they have
been carefully maintained and upgraded. For more money, there are some
Tartans, O'Days, Sabres, Island Packets, etc. Although I would
obviously need to check out the condition and equipment of the boats and
obtain a survey if I were seriously considering one, do you have any
suggestions as to what to look for in this price range and venue?
Features that I think would be important a roller reefing and lines
led aft; wheel steering (required by the charter company); adequate sail
inventory in good condition; diesel engine in good condition; suitable
electronics; clean interior and recent bottom treatment; through-hull
valves, sump pumps, etc., in either new or good condition; no evidence
of water in the bilge; fun, fast, and exciting to sail, etc. For the
Houston weather, air conditioning would be nice, although few of the
boats also have an on-board generator to power it at anchor. Also, what
about one of the retractable-extendable keel boats, or the shoal draft
boats, for our shallow bay waters? - Would this mess up the offshore
sailing capabilities?

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.

Jim

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.

Jim, as you can see there are a LOT of used boats around. I tend to follow the
idea that buying a reasonably respectable brand is a good idea. Without that
you could end up stuck with her.
My favorite used boats: Pearson, C&C, Tartan, bristol, Catalina and quite a few
more makes, models and odd designs. You need to get aboard and see what "fits"
and what pleases your eye first and foremost. Learn to read the numbers. Sail
area/Disp. and PHRF ratings are a good initial inidcator for how a design will
treat you under sail. Above all, take your time. There are always compromises,
but you can shave them down. If financial limits have you looking at lesser
boats, perhaps it's worth saving a bit longer. You never know when a magic deal
will float along. My wife and I sold our Pearson 30 when we were married. We
were going to wait 2 or 3 years and then buy a big boat. Then I had the chance
to buy a C&C 32 for 16K. So, while waiting for the "big" boat plan, we still
get to sail a nice boat. I think the watchword is patience. If you're in a
hurry the wrong boat may find YOU! That's happened to at least 2 people in this
group.

RB

No, but a spell checker would have caught 'resonably'.

AND fix your word wrap!

Scotty



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:27:09 -0500, "Scott Vernon"
wrote:

Hey stupid, don't you know what I paid? Everybody else does. Do a
Google,
if you're capable. And while you're at it, learn how to use a spell
check.


Spell checkers, like the rest of the world, don't care enough about
Siedelmannnn's to give a rats ass if you spell their name correctly.
They aren't worth the bother. Owning one, you must know that without
me having to tell you. What did you pay to buy your Siddelmunn? The
answer is that you are STILL paying for it!

BB



Scotty

wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:39:33 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"

wrote:

I've forgotten... what kind of boat do you own? Do you
think it'll go up in value?


My boat model's average retail is slightly higher today than the
original
selling price... And don't worry about today's dollar versus 1986
dollars.
During those years, I've taken equity in the form of use out of the
boat
that
more than makes up for inflation. Nobody goes sailing to save money,
anyway.

What did Porta Scotty's Siedlemann go for new? What would it reasonably
bring
today. Don't forget to factor in that Scotty probably paid too much for
it. What
did your Cal20 go for new? What would it resonably sell for today?

BB

wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:52:45 -0500, "Scott Vernon"

wrote:

I see your math is no better than your English.



You are right! $30k would probably get you at least 15 or more
Sidelmanns
in
today's market. They sure aren't ever going to go UP in value.

BB


wrote in message
.. .
On 01 Mar 2004 23:15:48 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

But maybe $30K is a horrendous lot
of money to you, Jax?


It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....

A J30 and a J24
Two Pearson 30s
A C&C 30 late model
A Catalina 30 late 80's
A Bristol 29.5

And so on....

RB

or an even dozen Sidelmanns!

BB

Your logic eludes me.


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:25:22 -0500, "Scott Vernon"
wrote:

The new reformed & warned "Bobsprit" wrote


Jim, while this group can offer valid and often helpful advice, they
soon
tire
of a subject and turn to school yard in-fighting. It's been the nature
of
Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take
any
of
it seriously.

Which you are 85% responsible for yourself.



The Mac line of power sailors is generally considered by MANY to be
ugly,
cheap
and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are.


Yet they are the best selling sailboat in history.



Yes, and to you, McDonalds is the worlds best restaurant for the same
reason.

BB

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:14:52 -0600, Jim Cate wrote:



Bobsprit wrote:
You need to read the notes you respond to more carefully. What I said was:


Jim, while this group can offer valid and often helpful advice, they soon tire
of a subject and turn to school yard in-fighting. It's been the nature of
Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take any of
it seriously.
The Mac line of power sailors is generally considered by MANY to be ugly, cheap
and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are. I was aboard
a new M at the AC Boat show (I didn't even know it wasn't called the 26X
anymore). It was a laughable excuse for a power or sailboat. I was told it
could do nearly 25 knots, though 3 foot chop would cut that by a 3rd. A 3rd?
Such a loss of performance from moderate chop is indicative of design limits
too steep for my blood.
Few people, other than a Mac owner will encourage you to buy one. While it may
be the "best" compromise between power and sail, the trade offs are downright
offensive to sailors. If you have sailed good sailboats, I seriously think
you'll be dissapointed in the Mac and regret buying one.

Best of Luck,

Robert B
C&C 32, Alien
NY

Robert,
In any event, my notes apparently provide some entertainment value to
the group, since this seems to be one of the more active current
discussion topics. I was aware of the general reputation of the Mac
boats before posting my questions, but I was looking for information
about the new model, that includes significant mods that may have
resolved at least some of the limitations of previous models. Looking
for some "logical" and "rational" advice.

I appreciate your balanced and helpful comments. I'm aware that all
boats, including the Mac, would entail compromises for my particular
intended uses in the Galveston-Kemah environment. I'm not settled on a
trailorable boat, and there are lots of used, larger boats available in
our area. As mentioned previously, if I bought a fixed-keel boat I would
plan to leave it with a local charter company to minimize the time spent
in maintaining and checking on the boat. I wouldn't expect to get a
positive cash flow from the rentals, but my CPA mentioned that there may
be some tax benefits from such an arrangement. - It's largely a matter
of minimizing marina fees and being able to leave the boat with someone
who would keep an eye on it. I plan to meet with the charterer this
week and then check out some of the used boats they might accept.

Boats offered for sale in this area in the $20,000 - $30,000 price range
include 30 to 33-foot: Catalinas, S-2s, (older) Pearsons, Cals, C&Cs,
Siedlemanns, Hunters (nasty word - sorry), Columbias, Ericsons, and
several others that I wasn't familiar with. These boats vary in age
(1970 - 1985) and condition, but many of the ads claim that they have
been carefully maintained and upgraded. For more money, there are some
Tartans, O'Days, Sabres, Island Packets, etc. Although I would
obviously need to check out the condition and equipment of the boats and
obtain a survey if I were seriously considering one, do you have any
suggestions as to what to look for in this price range and venue?
Features that I think would be important a roller reefing and lines
led aft; wheel steering (required by the charter company); adequate sail
inventory in good condition; diesel engine in good condition; suitable
electronics; clean interior and recent bottom treatment; through-hull
valves, sump pumps, etc., in either new or good condition; no evidence
of water in the bilge; fun, fast, and exciting to sail, etc. For the
Houston weather, air conditioning would be nice, although few of the
boats also have an on-board generator to power it at anchor. Also, what
about one of the retractable-extendable keel boats, or the shoal draft
boats, for our shallow bay waters? - Would this mess up the offshore
sailing capabilities?

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.

Jim

Jim...I always cringe when I see people mention leaving their boat in
a charter program. There really aren't any tax benefits these days.
My experience is that there is a huge PITA factor, coupled with
enormous wear and tear on the boat. Many charter companies will let
just about any bozo take a boat out and your boat will certainly
reflect that fact in broken, lost or stolen gear. If you are looking
for a way to minimize expenses, perhaps you have a friend with whom
you might start a boat partnership. While there are some pitfalls
there, I would do that before I would ever leave a boat in charter,
based on my experience.

As to air conditioning, I agree that it is nice to have in Texas, but
I don't think you need it when you are anchored out. I sail in North
Texas and I am never hot out on the water, although it can be
miserable at the dock. I do have a/c, but no genset. As long as a
boat is properly ventilated and has a few fans, don't worry about the
genset. Those are really only practical on much larger boats than you
are thinking about anyway.

My advice, use reason to narrow down your choices, based on where and
how you will sail your boat. Then buy the boat that makes your heart
skip a beat when you see her.

The most dangerous words in sailing are "a lot of boat for the money."

There should be plenty of boats that would meet your needs. Just
start looking and studying. That is half the fun

Really, Scotty. So boring. Give it a rest.


RB