Lifelines
 

A lot of boats have pulled off the plastic from the lifelines and it looks
better than the constantly dirty plastic.
What's the best method for getting it off? Blowdryer?

RB

Lifelines
 

Looks better but there's a reason for the covering. Sail protecton if
nothing else. First time you snag your hand on a wire 'hook' you'll learn
to put 'show' behind 'go' and not the other way round. If they don't look
good CLEAN them.

M.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
A lot of boats have pulled off the plastic from the lifelines and it looks
better than the constantly dirty plastic.
What's the best method for getting it off? Blowdryer?

RB

Lifelines
 

Looks better but there's a reason for the covering. Sail protecton if
nothing else.


Good points.


RB

Lifelines
 

Nobody has "pulled off" the plastic. You have to get new lifelines made that
way. Better check your stanchions to see if they have chafe protection for the
wire or it ain't gonna work on your boat.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

Lifelines
 

Life line wire doesn't work enough to get meat hooks. Many sailors are
going to bare wire for a number of reasons.

The wire doesn't corrode as it will under a vinyl cover.

Can be checked for wear more readily.

They can use a larger wire dia. for a stronger life line.

Stays cleaner looking.

Additionally, with the new high tech lines, there is a growing trend
to use this material in stead of wire for life lines. There has been a
lot of discusion about this on the various boards and Practical
Sailor.

On 19 Feb 2004 14:36:50 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

Looks better but there's a reason for the covering. Sail protecton if
nothing else.


Good points.


RB

Lifelines
 

Nobody has "pulled off" the plastic. You have to get new lifelines made that
way.

Not correct. I know of several boats where they simply removed the covering.

RB

Lifelines
 

That's stupid. The plastic protects the sails from chafe and the
hands from fishhooks. The downside is that rust can develop
beneath the plastic which shortens the life of the lines, but then
you shouldn't be relying on them anyway. They're the grap of
last resort.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Nobody has "pulled off" the plastic. You have to get new lifelines made
that
way.

Not correct. I know of several boats where they simply removed the
covering.

RB

Lifelines
 

Actually I've seen fishhooks. I believe that stress on them
over time will do it. They certainly rust, though mostly
at the ends where the covers have pulled up a bit. You
shouldn't be relying on them, so "stronger" wire is a waste
of money.

Other material sounds interesting... doesn't it stretch more?

"Marc" wrote in message
...
Life line wire doesn't work enough to get meat hooks. Many sailors are
going to bare wire for a number of reasons.

The wire doesn't corrode as it will under a vinyl cover.

Can be checked for wear more readily.

They can use a larger wire dia. for a stronger life line.

Stays cleaner looking.

Additionally, with the new high tech lines, there is a growing trend
to use this material in stead of wire for life lines. There has been a
lot of discusion about this on the various boards and Practical
Sailor.

On 19 Feb 2004 14:36:50 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

Looks better but there's a reason for the covering. Sail protecton if
nothing else.


Good points.


RB

Lifelines
 

On 19 Feb 2004, (Bobsprit) wrote:


Nobody has "pulled off" the plastic. You
have to get new lifelines made that way.

Not correct. I know of several boats where they
simply removed the covering . . . .

. . . or, perhaps better (if more expensively), have replaced the
cable/coated lifelines with now equally-strong Spectra or like lines -
right?

Lifelines
 

you shouldn't be relying on them anyway. They're the grap of
last resort.


Last resort? Don't rely on them?
I never heard anything like this before.

RB

Lifelines
 

. . . or, perhaps better (if more expensively), have replaced the
cable/coated lifelines with now equally-strong Spectra or like lines -
right?


I've not seen this around here yet.


RB

Lifelines
 

A fishhook in an of itself, isn't a failure. Many people use them
to steady themselves when moving along the deck. I would prefer
to replace/inspect the lifelines as appropriate and in the mean time
not have cut fingers.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:36:42 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
said:

The downside is that rust can develop
beneath the plastic which shortens the life of the lines, but then
you shouldn't be relying on them anyway. They're the grap of
last resort.

And your "grap" of last resort should have its fishooks covered up? Not
sure
I wouldn't prefer a cut finger to a lifeline that fails when needed.


Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

Lifelines
 

Really? That's pretty standard information. They're about knee height as
well.
Not exactly the right height to prevent a fall.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
you shouldn't be relying on them anyway. They're the grap of
last resort.


Last resort? Don't rely on them?
I never heard anything like this before.

RB

Lifelines
 

A fishhook in an of itself, isn't a failure.


Yes it is. It means part of the line has FAILED and the line is compromised
along with your ability to hold onto it.

RB

Lifelines
 

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
........, but then
you shouldn't be relying on them anyway. They're the grap of
last resort.


Actually, lifelines are for snapping you harness on when you have to leave
the cockpit offshore. Errr, well, Bobsprit wouldn't have to ever worry
about that anyway so he may as well replace his plastic coated wire cables
with decorative goldtone cord.

Lifelines
 

Actually, lifelines are for snapping you harness on when you have to leave
the cockpit offshore

nope. they are NOT.

Lifelines
 

Really? That's pretty standard information.

Lifelines are very useful and important:
1) Working forward, stay low and they can and will catch you
2) If you take a fall from anywhere, accept over them, they can and will catch
you
3) Jacklines-part of the system.

You should expect to "rely" on lifelines. I've never heard or read anyone call
them a "last resort" and wouldn't treat them as such. I consider this an unsafe
philosophy. Like EVERY safety system on board they should be cared for as
PRIMARY safety gear. Do otherwise and you might regret it. I use my lifelines
FAR more often than my Fire Extiguisher (never used them actually), but I keep
the extinguishers updated as well.

RB

Lifelines
 

Actually, lifelines are for snapping you harness on when you have to leave
the cockpit offshore


Oops. Try JACKLINES. See my other post on the importance of lifelines as
PRIMARY safety gear.

RB

Lifelines
 

You are correct, I was wrong. Gee, I learned something today even if I did
get flamed for my ignorance.


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:18:01 -0500, "Dufus" wrote:


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
........, but then
you shouldn't be relying on them anyway. They're the grap of
last resort.


Actually, lifelines are for snapping you harness on when you have to
leave
the cockpit offshore.

They are? That sounds like a very bad idea to me! I have jack lines
for that purpose.

BB

Lifelines
 

Well, you're wrong. It's that simple.

1) Working forward, one of course stays low, and low, they'll work fine.
They're not a substitute for acting responsibly on the bow.

2) They won't necessarily catch you. They'll break, especially under your
considerable weight. I've seen them break several times in the middle and
even more often at the gate.

3) Jacklines have nothing to do with lifelines. Jacklines will not (or
should
not break), and are used to keep you on the boat in rough conditions.

You should *never* rely on lifelines. And, who give a crap what you think.
If you treat lifelines as a last resort, you won't rely on them, as you
shouldn't
and you will rely on yourself to be low and balanced.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Really? That's pretty standard information.

Lifelines are very useful and important:
1) Working forward, stay low and they can and will catch you
2) If you take a fall from anywhere, accept over them, they can and will
catch
you
3) Jacklines-part of the system.

You should expect to "rely" on lifelines. I've never heard or read anyone
call
them a "last resort" and wouldn't treat them as such. I consider this an
unsafe
philosophy. Like EVERY safety system on board they should be cared for as
PRIMARY safety gear. Do otherwise and you might regret it. I use my
lifelines
FAR more often than my Fire Extiguisher (never used them actually), but I
keep
the extinguishers updated as well.

RB

Lifelines
 

It's compromised, but hasn't yet failed. I much rather have a cut than
fall in the water.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
A fishhook in an of itself, isn't a failure.


Yes it is. It means part of the line has FAILED and the line is
compromised
along with your ability to hold onto it.

RB

Lifelines
 

HUH? Are you crazy?? Perhaps you're talking about JACKLINES????

"Dufus" wrote in message
. ..

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
........, but then
you shouldn't be relying on them anyway. They're the grap of
last resort.


Actually, lifelines are for snapping you harness on when you have to leave
the cockpit offshore. Errr, well, Bobsprit wouldn't have to ever worry
about that anyway so he may as well replace his plastic coated wire cables
with decorative goldtone cord.

Lifelines
 

As do most real sailors. But, I think Dufus made a typo.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:18:01 -0500, "Dufus" wrote:


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
........, but then
you shouldn't be relying on them anyway. They're the grap of
last resort.


Actually, lifelines are for snapping you harness on when you have to
leave
the cockpit offshore.

They are? That sounds like a very bad idea to me! I have jack lines
for that purpose.

BB

Lifelines
 

They are primary safety gear, but they should be used as a LAST RESORT.
Sort of like an Epirb.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Actually, lifelines are for snapping you harness on when you have to
leave
the cockpit offshore


Oops. Try JACKLINES. See my other post on the importance of lifelines as
PRIMARY safety gear.

RB

Lifelines
 

Lifelines
 

I guess the name says it all, unless, of course, you want Bob to tether
himself to his "lifelines". The word you might be looking for is
"jacklines", lines that serve no other purpose than attachment points for
tethers.
John Cairns
"Dufus" wrote in message
. ..

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
........, but then
you shouldn't be relying on them anyway. They're the grap of
last resort.


Actually, lifelines are for snapping you harness on when you have to leave
the cockpit offshore. Errr, well, Bobsprit wouldn't have to ever worry
about that anyway so he may as well replace his plastic coated wire cables
with decorative goldtone cord.

Lifelines
 

So, when you go forward you crawl on your hands and knees? You really need
to spend some time offshore Bob.
John Cairns
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

Lifelines are very useful and important:
1) Working forward, stay low and they can and will catch you
2) If you take a fall from anywhere, accept over them, they can and will
catch you
RB

Lifelines
 

Actually, I've done that several times, even in the bay. It can get pretty
rough.
Certainly off the coast also.

"John Cairns" wrote in message
...
So, when you go forward you crawl on your hands and knees? You really need
to spend some time offshore Bob.
John Cairns
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

Lifelines are very useful and important:
1) Working forward, stay low and they can and will catch you
2) If you take a fall from anywhere, accept over them, they can and will
catch you
RB

Lifelines
 

Umm... sorry, but I think I need an interpreter... what does
"I'm suggestion that that is a total non-sequitur" mean?

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:06:33 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
said:

It's compromised, but hasn't yet failed. I much rather have a cut than
fall in the water.

You'd probably prefer to be rich but happy rather than poor but unhappy
too.
(In case you missed it, I'm suggestion that that is a total non-sequitur)

Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

Lifelines
 

Flamed? Nah, flamed would be something like "YOU STUPID F*CKING
ASSH*LE! GET OUT OF THIS NEWGROUP." :-)

"Dufus" wrote in message
.. .
You are correct, I was wrong. Gee, I learned something today even if I
did
get flamed for my ignorance.


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:18:01 -0500, "Dufus" wrote:


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
........, but then
you shouldn't be relying on them anyway. They're the grap of
last resort.


Actually, lifelines are for snapping you harness on when you have to
leave
the cockpit offshore.

They are? That sounds like a very bad idea to me! I have jack lines
for that purpose.

BB

Lifelines
 

It's compromised, but hasn't yet failed. I much rather have a cut than
fall in the water.

The cut may lead your grip to fail...and splash anyway.

RB

Lifelines
 

So, when you go forward you crawl on your hands and knees?

In rough conditions I stay very low. One hand for me, one for the boat.

RB

Lifelines
 

2) They won't necessarily catch you. They'll break, especially under your
considerable weight.

On Yoda, a sudden lurch caught my friend off guard and he toppled from the
cabin trunk. The lines caught him, though at 6'6 and near 300lbs he certainly
tested them. There's no way a proper lifeline will break from someone's weight,
unless the core is rotted or the lines are bad. NO WAY.

RB

Lifelines
 

You've never been in "rough conditions."

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
So, when you go forward you crawl on your hands and knees?

In rough conditions I stay very low. One hand for me, one for the boat.

RB

Lifelines
 

The key word is "may."

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
It's compromised, but hasn't yet failed. I much rather have a cut than
fall in the water.

The cut may lead your grip to fail...and splash anyway.

RB

Lifelines
 

That was a rhetorical flourish. I've never thought of lifelines as a primary
safety item, mainly for the reason that they won't keep you on the boat if
push comes to shove. Last summer when we were doing the feeder race for Bay
Week I went under the lifelines up to my thighs on the bow of the J-33. If I
had been unfortunate enough to be unconscious at the time I would have keep
right on going. The stanchion was the grip of last resort at the time. And
of course I have gone forward in a crouch when conditions merited it. My
point was, and remains, they are not an important safety item for the
primary reason that they will not keep you on the boat in the types of
conditions you're referring to, and thinking of them as such is silly and
naive. Even relying on them in moderate conditions would be hubris at best.
John Cairns
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Actually, I've done that several times, even in the bay. It can get pretty
rough.
Certainly off the coast also.

"John Cairns" wrote in message
...
So, when you go forward you crawl on your hands and knees? You really
need
to spend some time offshore Bob.
John Cairns
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

Lifelines are very useful and important:
1) Working forward, stay low and they can and will catch you
2) If you take a fall from anywhere, accept over them, they can and
will
catch you
RB

Lifelines
 

Racko-Nos Pam writes:

So, when you go forward you crawl on your hands and knees?

not hands and knees. hands and feet, body low. Better control that way.

You really need
to spend some time offshore

That is where I learned it. Racko-Nos, are you suggesting that should you
happen someday to get offshore you might learn some other way to go forward in
waves as high as the freeboard?

Lifelines
 

jonny, stay on your feet, don't go to your knees. more control that way.

Actually, I've done that several times, even in the bay. It can get pretty
rough.
Certainly off the coast also.

"John Cairns" wrote in message
...
So, when you go forward you crawl on your hands and knees? You really need
to spend some time offshore Bob.
John Cairns
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

Lifelines are very useful and important:
1) Working forward, stay low and they can and will catch you
2) If you take a fall from anywhere, accept over them, they can and will
catch you
RB

Lifelines
 

My
point was, and remains, they are not an important safety item for the
primary reason that they will not keep you on the boat in the types of
conditions you're referring to

John, you just said that the lines saved you from going overboard. No safety
item will save your life under all conditions. But lifelines can be an
important factor as you've just shown. You WERE conscous and the lines kept you
aboard. They've done the same for me twice. As I said, that's more than my fire
extinguishers have done!
Every safety item on a boat contributes and should be given equal care and
respect, from life lines to a flare gun. They are ALL primary safety measures.
That's a smart philosphy that every boater should follow. Anything less leads
to neglect and a level of safety is lost or comrpomised.

RB

Lifelines
 

jonny, it means you didn't understand the context of the sentence, therefore
the substitution of one letter for another and the elimination of a third
letter in a message of maybe ninety letters has left you completely baffled.

Umm... sorry, but I think I need an interpreter... what does
"I'm suggestion that that is a total non-sequitur" mean?

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:06:33 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
said:

It's compromised, but hasn't yet failed. I much rather have a cut than
fall in the water.

You'd probably prefer to be rich but happy rather than poor but unhappy
too.
(In case you missed it, I'm suggestion that that is a total non-sequitur)

Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27