Lifelines
 

The key word is "may."


That will be the word at your funeral, Jonathan.
"If the line had been maintained, he MAY have survived."
I'm not sure what you're attempting to preach here. Suggesting that lifelines
are not key gear is something Neal would say. Or maybe not.

RB

Lifelines
 

You are a putz, like the lately departed Neal pointed out constantly. I was
offshore last November, and you can prove you were offshore when? Just as I
thought. Typical AOLamer.Waves as high as the freeboard?
bwahahahahahhahahahahaha
John Cairns
"JAXAshby" bleated balefully
...
That is where I learned it. Racko-Nos, are you suggesting that should you
happen someday to get offshore you might learn some other way to go
forward in
waves as high as the freeboard?

Lifelines
 

I have been up on the foredeck in 40+ knots of wind off Glen Cove, as well as
somewhere between Bermuda and Hatteras. I go up forward low and on my feet.

You've never been in "rough conditions."

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
So, when you go forward you crawl on your hands and knees?

In rough conditions I stay very low. One hand for me, one for the boat.

RB

Lifelines
 

Racko-Nos, you said "rough" conditions. On one occasion, waves as high as the
freeboard were reported by other crew on the boat I was on (heading offshore,
btw, after ducking into a port to let the Norther against the Gulf Stream pass)
as "six feet" and by another boat not 10 minutes behind us as "20 feet" (water
too shallow to support much above 6 foot waves)

You are a putz, like the lately departed Neal pointed out constantly. I was
offshore last November, and you can prove you were offshore when? Just as I
thought. Typical AOLamer.Waves as high as the freeboard?
bwahahahahahhahahahahaha
John Cairns
"JAXAshby" bleated balefully
...
That is where I learned it. Racko-Nos, are you suggesting that should you
happen someday to get offshore you might learn some other way to go
forward in
waves as high as the freeboard?

Lifelines
 

You are a putz, like the lately departed Neal pointed out constantly. I was
offshore last November, and you can prove you were offshore when? Just as I
thought. Typical AOLamer.


John, instead of throwing rocks, why not just keep to the discussion at hand? I
have no idea if anyone here was offshore. Doesn't make a diff. I think the
lifeline issue as I've described it is obvious to anyone.
I don't see what AOL has to do with a discussion on safety.

RB

Lifelines
 

You need to read the posts more carefully. As high as the freeboard? I've
sailed in conditions like that on LAKE ERIE. Hint-how high is a typical
freeboard on a heeled sailboat of 30'-50' feet in LOA. So, the long and
short of it is, you agree that "lifelines" are an "important" safety feature
on sailboats. Another hint-when referring to wave height, waves are measured
from what two points?
John Cairns
"JAXAshby" keruffled
...
Racko-Nos, you said "rough" conditions. On one occasion, waves as high as
the
freeboard were reported by other crew on the boat I was on (heading
offshore,
btw, after ducking into a port to let the Norther against the Gulf Stream
pass)
as "six feet" and by another boat not 10 minutes behind us as "20 feet"
(water
too shallow to support much above 6 foot waves)

You are a putz, like the lately departed Neal pointed out constantly. I
was
offshore last November, and you can prove you were offshore when? Just as
I
thought. Typical AOLamer.Waves as high as the freeboard?
bwahahahahahhahahahahaha
John Cairns
"JAXAshby" bleated balefully
...
That is where I learned it. Racko-Nos, are you suggesting that should
you
happen someday to get offshore you might learn some other way to go
forward in
waves as high as the freeboard?

Lifelines
 

Well, of course you're right, it has nothing to do with safety. So we'll
snip the AOLamer crack and the putz remark but we'll leave in the
bwahaahhahahahhahahah.I myself have a very good idea when more than one of
the regulars here was offshore. Bottom line, it is a serious mistake to rely
on lifelines to keep you on a sailboat, even in moderate conditions. If
lifelines were an important safety feature there wouldn't be such a thing as
jacklines.
John Cairns
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
John, instead of throwing rocks, why not just keep to the discussion at
hand? I
have no idea if anyone here was offshore. Doesn't make a diff. I think the
lifeline issue as I've described it is obvious to anyone.
I don't see what AOL has to do with a discussion on safety.

RB

Lifelines
 

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:36:42 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

That's stupid. The plastic protects the sails from chafe and the
hands from fishhooks. The downside is that rust can develop
beneath the plastic which shortens the life of the lines, but then
you shouldn't be relying on them anyway. They're the grap of
last resort.

Rust? Mine are stainless steel, dumbass.





This signature is now the ultimate power in the universe

Lifelines
 

Racko-Nos, you are a little slow on the uptake. Unless, of course, you are
saying that *you* would walk forward on the deck of some boat you *might* be on
in the future with 4 foot waves around and *you* would NOT crouch down or hold
on to anything. Or, you are trying to say that *you* think anything less than
50 or 60 waves is of no concern to you. If so, you are a walking dead man just
looking for a boat to take you to your death.

You read way too many books and spend way too little time on sailboats,
Racko-Nos Pam. Way too many books.

btw Racko-Nos, I seldom wear a harness going forward (unless I need two hands
once I get forward and the waves are anything but mild) but I never fail to
have a solid handhold at all times.



You need to read the posts more carefully. As high as the freeboard? I've
sailed in conditions like that on LAKE ERIE. Hint-how high is a typical
freeboard on a heeled sailboat of 30'-50' feet in LOA. So, the long and
short of it is, you agree that "lifelines" are an "important" safety feature
on sailboats. Another hint-when referring to wave height, waves are measured
from what two points?
John Cairns
"JAXAshby" keruffled
...
Racko-Nos, you said "rough" conditions. On one occasion, waves as high as
the
freeboard were reported by other crew on the boat I was on (heading
offshore,
btw, after ducking into a port to let the Norther against the Gulf Stream
pass)
as "six feet" and by another boat not 10 minutes behind us as "20 feet"
(water
too shallow to support much above 6 foot waves)

You are a putz, like the lately departed Neal pointed out constantly. I
was
offshore last November, and you can prove you were offshore when? Just as
I
thought. Typical AOLamer.Waves as high as the freeboard?
bwahahahahahhahahahahaha
John Cairns
"JAXAshby" bleated balefully
...
That is where I learned it. Racko-Nos, are you suggesting that should
you
happen someday to get offshore you might learn some other way to go
forward in
waves as high as the freeboard?

Lifelines
 

Racko-Nos, you missed the irony of the statement. I think _actual_ four-foot
waves would frighten you so much you could come back talking about seeing 20
foot waves.

As high as the freeboard?

Lifelines
 

horvath, what stainless steel lifelines on Lake of the Isles?

rom: Horvath
Date: 2/19/2004 6:38 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:36:42 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

That's stupid. The plastic protects the sails from chafe and the
hands from fishhooks. The downside is that rust can develop
beneath the plastic which shortens the life of the lines, but then
you shouldn't be relying on them anyway. They're the grap of
last resort.

Rust? Mine are stainless steel, dumbass.





This signature is now the ultimate power in the universe

Lifelines
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jonny, it means you didn't understand the context of the sentence,
therefore
the substitution of one letter for another and the elimination of a third
letter in a message of maybe ninety letters has left you completely
baffled.



Rubbish!



Regards


Donal
--

Lifelines
 

"Dufus" wrote in message
.. .
You are correct, I was wrong. Gee, I learned something today even if I
did
get flamed for my ignorance.


Pah! You didn't get flamed.

You commited a very minor misdemeanour(sp?), and you attracted the
attention of BinaryBill.

BB is nothing more than a Big girl's Blouse. You mustn't misinterpret his
small minded insults.


He isn't capable of a proper flame!



Regards


Donal
--

Lifelines
 

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
As do most real sailors. But, I think Dufus made a typo.

Exactly. Every *real* sailor understood him.

Binary Bill has managed to embarrass hinself once again.



Regards


Donal
--

Lifelines
 

I usually only think of irony in terms of truthful statements. You speak in
"ironic" terms of 20 ft. seas but you can't prove you've ever been offshore?
WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!! That is ironic. I, otoh, was offshore as recently as
last November and can prove it. In fact, you can't even prove you're more
than a figment of your own imagination, "Jax". BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
John Cairns
"JAXAshby" rose up on his hind legs and yipped
...
Racko-Nos, you missed the irony of the statement. I think _actual_
four-foot
waves would frighten you so much you could come back talking about seeing
20
foot waves.

As high as the freeboard?

Lifelines
 

Sorry, but how does one tell in advance on someone else's boat whether
or not a lifeline is "proper"? There is no way. In fact, a lifeline can
become
as you put it compromised without even the boat owner realizing it. One
should NEVER rely on a piece of safety equipment vs. common sense.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
2) They won't necessarily catch you. They'll break, especially under your
considerable weight.

On Yoda, a sudden lurch caught my friend off guard and he toppled from the
cabin trunk. The lines caught him, though at 6'6 and near 300lbs he
certainly
tested them. There's no way a proper lifeline will break from someone's
weight,
unless the core is rotted or the lines are bad. NO WAY.

RB

Lifelines
 

Probably right, but people do use them for balance. I don't have any on
my boat, so it's not an issue. On the boats on which I teach, I make sure
people are crouching or crawling if they have to go forward in bad
conditions.

"John Cairns" wrote in message
...
That was a rhetorical flourish. I've never thought of lifelines as a
primary
safety item, mainly for the reason that they won't keep you on the boat if
push comes to shove. Last summer when we were doing the feeder race for
Bay
Week I went under the lifelines up to my thighs on the bow of the J-33. If
I
had been unfortunate enough to be unconscious at the time I would have
keep
right on going. The stanchion was the grip of last resort at the time. And
of course I have gone forward in a crouch when conditions merited it. My
point was, and remains, they are not an important safety item for the
primary reason that they will not keep you on the boat in the types of
conditions you're referring to, and thinking of them as such is silly and
naive. Even relying on them in moderate conditions would be hubris at
best.
John Cairns
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Actually, I've done that several times, even in the bay. It can get
pretty
rough.
Certainly off the coast also.

"John Cairns" wrote in message
...
So, when you go forward you crawl on your hands and knees? You really
need
to spend some time offshore Bob.
John Cairns
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

Lifelines are very useful and important:
1) Working forward, stay low and they can and will catch you
2) If you take a fall from anywhere, accept over them, they can and
will
catch you
RB

Lifelines
 

Sounds like major backpeddling to me.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
My
point was, and remains, they are not an important safety item for the
primary reason that they will not keep you on the boat in the types of
conditions you're referring to

John, you just said that the lines saved you from going overboard. No
safety
item will save your life under all conditions. But lifelines can be an
important factor as you've just shown. You WERE conscous and the lines
kept you
aboard. They've done the same for me twice. As I said, that's more than my
fire
extinguishers have done!
Every safety item on a boat contributes and should be given equal care and
respect, from life lines to a flare gun. They are ALL primary safety
measures.
That's a smart philosphy that every boater should follow. Anything less
leads
to neglect and a level of safety is lost or comrpomised.

RB

Lifelines
 

Jackass, sounds like you have plenty of experience on your knees.
Thanks for the advice.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jonny, stay on your feet, don't go to your knees. more control that way.

Actually, I've done that several times, even in the bay. It can get
pretty
rough.
Certainly off the coast also.

"John Cairns" wrote in message
...
So, when you go forward you crawl on your hands and knees? You really
need
to spend some time offshore Bob.
John Cairns
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

Lifelines are very useful and important:
1) Working forward, stay low and they can and will catch you
2) If you take a fall from anywhere, accept over them, they can and
will
catch you
RB

Lifelines
 

I believe you, sort of. Bob has never done it, however.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
I have been up on the foredeck in 40+ knots of wind off Glen Cove, as well
as
somewhere between Bermuda and Hatteras. I go up forward low and on my
feet.

You've never been in "rough conditions."

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
So, when you go forward you crawl on your hands and knees?

In rough conditions I stay very low. One hand for me, one for the boat.

RB

Lifelines
 

Heck, I've sailed in the Carib with waves we looked up at. And that was
mild weather.

"John Cairns" wrote in message
...
You need to read the posts more carefully. As high as the freeboard? I've
sailed in conditions like that on LAKE ERIE. Hint-how high is a typical
freeboard on a heeled sailboat of 30'-50' feet in LOA. So, the long and
short of it is, you agree that "lifelines" are an "important" safety
feature
on sailboats. Another hint-when referring to wave height, waves are
measured
from what two points?
John Cairns
"JAXAshby" keruffled
...
Racko-Nos, you said "rough" conditions. On one occasion, waves as high
as
the
freeboard were reported by other crew on the boat I was on (heading
offshore,
btw, after ducking into a port to let the Norther against the Gulf
Stream
pass)
as "six feet" and by another boat not 10 minutes behind us as "20 feet"
(water
too shallow to support much above 6 foot waves)

You are a putz, like the lately departed Neal pointed out constantly. I
was
offshore last November, and you can prove you were offshore when? Just
as
I
thought. Typical AOLamer.Waves as high as the freeboard?
bwahahahahahhahahahahaha
John Cairns
"JAXAshby" bleated balefully
...
That is where I learned it. Racko-Nos, are you suggesting that should
you
happen someday to get offshore you might learn some other way to go
forward in
waves as high as the freeboard?

Lifelines
 

4 ft waves are moderate chop on the bay.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Racko-Nos, you are a little slow on the uptake. Unless, of course, you
are
saying that *you* would walk forward on the deck of some boat you *might*
be on
in the future with 4 foot waves around and *you* would NOT crouch down or
hold
on to anything. Or, you are trying to say that *you* think anything less
than
50 or 60 waves is of no concern to you. If so, you are a walking dead man
just
looking for a boat to take you to your death.

You read way too many books and spend way too little time on sailboats,
Racko-Nos Pam. Way too many books.

btw Racko-Nos, I seldom wear a harness going forward (unless I need two
hands
once I get forward and the waves are anything but mild) but I never fail
to
have a solid handhold at all times.



You need to read the posts more carefully. As high as the freeboard? I've
sailed in conditions like that on LAKE ERIE. Hint-how high is a typical
freeboard on a heeled sailboat of 30'-50' feet in LOA. So, the long and
short of it is, you agree that "lifelines" are an "important" safety
feature
on sailboats. Another hint-when referring to wave height, waves are
measured
from what two points?
John Cairns
"JAXAshby" keruffled
...
Racko-Nos, you said "rough" conditions. On one occasion, waves as high
as
the
freeboard were reported by other crew on the boat I was on (heading
offshore,
btw, after ducking into a port to let the Norther against the Gulf
Stream
pass)
as "six feet" and by another boat not 10 minutes behind us as "20 feet"
(water
too shallow to support much above 6 foot waves)

You are a putz, like the lately departed Neal pointed out constantly.
I
was
offshore last November, and you can prove you were offshore when? Just
as
I
thought. Typical AOLamer.Waves as high as the freeboard?
bwahahahahahhahahahahaha
John Cairns
"JAXAshby" bleated balefully
...
That is where I learned it. Racko-Nos, are you suggesting that
should
you
happen someday to get offshore you might learn some other way to go
forward in
waves as high as the freeboard?

Lifelines
 

Obvious to everyone but you.

Give us a break. You're not in the least bit reformed and you know it.
Your new meds must have kicked in.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
You are a putz, like the lately departed Neal pointed out constantly. I
was
offshore last November, and you can prove you were offshore when? Just as
I
thought. Typical AOLamer.


John, instead of throwing rocks, why not just keep to the discussion at
hand? I
have no idea if anyone here was offshore. Doesn't make a diff. I think the
lifeline issue as I've described it is obvious to anyone.
I don't see what AOL has to do with a discussion on safety.

RB

Lifelines
 

I think John went a little, tinsy bit far on that one.

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:37:14 -0500, "John Cairns"
scribbled thusly:

. If
lifelines were an important safety feature there wouldn't be such a thing
as
jacklines.
John Cairns

Huh?


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Lifelines
 

You're the one maintaining that they're essential or key gear. They're not.
I don't have
any on my boat. Don't need them. They're nice to have. They're in the
category
of safety equipment. They, like most things, shouldn't be relied upon to
save your
life. One's brain is the most important and essential piece of equipment.
Don't get
onboard without it.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
The key word is "may."


That will be the word at your funeral, Jonathan.
"If the line had been maintained, he MAY have survived."
I'm not sure what you're attempting to preach here. Suggesting that
lifelines
are not key gear is something Neal would say. Or maybe not.

RB

Lifelines
 

So, explain it than.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jonny, it means you didn't understand the context of the sentence,
therefore
the substitution of one letter for another and the elimination of a third
letter in a message of maybe ninety letters has left you completely
baffled.

Umm... sorry, but I think I need an interpreter... what does
"I'm suggestion that that is a total non-sequitur" mean?

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:06:33 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
said:

It's compromised, but hasn't yet failed. I much rather have a cut than
fall in the water.

You'd probably prefer to be rich but happy rather than poor but unhappy
too.
(In case you missed it, I'm suggestion that that is a total
non-sequitur)

Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

Lifelines
 

I thought you were claiming you were a suggestion. So sorry.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:55:38 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
said:


Umm... sorry, but I think I need an interpreter... what does
"I'm suggestion that that is a total non-sequitur" mean?

Try "suggesting" for "suggestion." A bit like the "grap" of last resort.

Or is it "non-sequitur" that's giving you the problem?

Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

Lifelines
 

And, you now claim that SS doesn't rust??

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:36:42 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

That's stupid. The plastic protects the sails from chafe and the
hands from fishhooks. The downside is that rust can develop
beneath the plastic which shortens the life of the lines, but then
you shouldn't be relying on them anyway. They're the grap of
last resort.

Rust? Mine are stainless steel, dumbass.





This signature is now the ultimate power in the universe

Lifelines
 

"John Cairns" scribbled thusly:
. If
lifelines were an important safety feature there wouldn't be such a thing as
jacklines.


OzOne wrote:
Huh?

Seems pretty simple & obvious to me... lifelines are nice & all, but they are not
a guarantee against going overboard. In fact getting flung or washed up against
them can be rather painful, never mind the added hazard of possibly ending up in
the drink.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Lifelines
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Racko-Nos, you are a little slow on the uptake. Unless, of course, you
are
saying that *you* would walk forward on the deck of some boat you *might*
be on
in the future with 4 foot waves around

4 foot waves???


Really Jax, you surpass yourself!!!


Twit!!!



Regards



Donal
--

Lifelines
 

You're the one maintaining that they're essential or key gear. They're not.
I don't have
any on my boat.


Jonathan, don't you own a Cal 20? Few boats that small have life lines.

RB

Lifelines
 

Sorry, but how does one tell in advance on someone else's boat whether
or not a lifeline is "proper"?

I'm not talking about risks associated with "someone else's boat." Lots of
people take risks and let their gear decay.
I'm talking about the lifelines on my last two boats, which were/are sound.

RB

Lifelines
 

One
should NEVER rely on a piece of safety equipment vs. common sense.


This is not the debate at hand. You said "YOU SHOULD NOT RELY ON LIFE LINES."
Period.
Now you've added some odd comment about common sense. We're talking gear and
only gear. Let's assume Rain Man isn't aboard.

RB

Lifelines
 

As do most real sailors. But, I think Dufus made a typo.

Exactly. Every *real* sailor understood him.

A typo? He said LIFELINES, not JALIFELINES. The former is a error, the latter a
typo.

RB

Lifelines
 

Bottom line, it is a serious mistake to rely
on lifelines to keep you on a sailboat, even in moderate conditions. If
lifelines were an important safety feature there wouldn't be such a thing as
jacklines.

By that measure, if jacklines were an important safety feature there wouldn't
be such a think as lifelines...or flare guns for that matter.
All safety gear works together and ALL of it is VERY important.

RB

Lifelines
 

And, I'm saying that relying on lifelines is foolhardy. One should rely
on oneself. That includes making sure the lifelines are in proper order.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Sorry, but how does one tell in advance on someone else's boat whether
or not a lifeline is "proper"?

I'm not talking about risks associated with "someone else's boat." Lots of
people take risks and let their gear decay.
I'm talking about the lifelines on my last two boats, which were/are
sound.

RB

Lifelines
 

You should NOT. We're talking about gear. Don't rely on them.
As you said, the stanchion can fail. That's part of the lifeline system.
Don't rely on them.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
One
should NEVER rely on a piece of safety equipment vs. common sense.


This is not the debate at hand. You said "YOU SHOULD NOT RELY ON LIFE
LINES."
Period.
Now you've added some odd comment about common sense. We're talking gear
and
only gear. Let's assume Rain Man isn't aboard.

RB

Lifelines
 

Jacklines have nothing to do with lifelines. You can have one without
the other. Jacklines are an essential piece of equipment for sailing
offshore.
One would be foolhardy not to have them available.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Bottom line, it is a serious mistake to rely
on lifelines to keep you on a sailboat, even in moderate conditions. If
lifelines were an important safety feature there wouldn't be such a thing
as
jacklines.

By that measure, if jacklines were an important safety feature there
wouldn't
be such a think as lifelines...or flare guns for that matter.
All safety gear works together and ALL of it is VERY important.

RB

Lifelines
 

So, I guess they're not so essential. Cal 20s have crossed oceans... not
that I
would recommend it.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
You're the one maintaining that they're essential or key gear. They're
not.
I don't have
any on my boat.


Jonathan, don't you own a Cal 20? Few boats that small have life lines.

RB

Lifelines
 

Ok. Let's now debate typos, since you're obviously not up to the task
of debating lifelines or jackellines.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
As do most real sailors. But, I think Dufus made a typo.

Exactly. Every *real* sailor understood him.

A typo? He said LIFELINES, not JALIFELINES. The former is a error, the
latter a
typo.

RB