It seems to me that there is not much idea around here as to what
constitutes seaworthiness. Here in NZ the conditions are more
challenging than in many other places and to sail offshore requires
great attention to detail and sound knowledge of your vessel. Many
people here might consider their vessels "seaworthy", but let me remind
you that seaworthiness is a state of preparedness and safely for major
passages and suitability for storm conditions.

Here in NZ we have to get vessels inspected every 2 years for their
seaworthiness and without a CAT1 clearance the vessel is not allowed to
leave (if owned by a NZ resident). The inspection takes up to ~2 hours
and the inspector also questions the skipper on his seamanship (it helps
if you already have qualifications like Ocean yachtmaster or even
Coastal skipper) for it is also the application his knowledge that makes
the vessel seaworthy (or not). In many cases vessel arrive here from
overseas which are patently unseaworthy and these days they are allowed
to leave -after a strong talking to by the inspector as to why their
vessels are unsuitable and what will likely happen to them in bad
conditions. For that reason, it would seem that many US and EU vessels
arrive but never leave.

When the real sailor thinks about his vessel he thinks about how she
will cope if hit by storm force winds in the open sea if he wishes to
call his vessel seaworthy. If the vessel is not seaworthy then it is
just a toy for amusement on nice fair wind days. The question is, to you
have a toy or a seaworthy vessel? How many people here even have a storm
jib?

Cheers MC

The navigator© wrote:

It seems to me that there is not much idea around here as to what
constitutes seaworthiness.

Speaking for yourself only, of course.

Here in NZ the conditions are more
challenging than in many other places

Due to the constant inability of NZers to pay their debts?

DSK

Is your comprehension defective? YOU LOST.

Cheers MC

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


It seems to me that there is not much idea around here as to what
constitutes seaworthiness.


Speaking for yourself only, of course.


Here in NZ the conditions are more
challenging than in many other places


Due to the constant inability of NZers to pay their debts?

DSK

The navigator© wrote:

Is your comprehension defective?

I comprehend that you have yet to post a single fact in support of your
contention.


YOU LOST.

Sorry, you're wrong. I guess you are used to it though.

How about a consolation prize, a nice geodesic grid structure? Or maybe
you'd rather have an aerodynamic textbook explaining the difference
between planform and cross section?

DSK

Yes, I'll accept any books you send in partial payment of your debt to
me. Talking of geodesics, have you found out what one is yet and why
they DON'T completely obstruct the interior of racing boats? bwhahhahaha

Cheers MC

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


Is your comprehension defective?


I comprehend that you have yet to post a single fact in support of your
contention.



YOU LOST.


Sorry, you're wrong. I guess you are used to it though.

How about a consolation prize, a nice geodesic grid structure? Or maybe
you'd rather have an aerodynamic textbook explaining the difference
between planform and cross section?

DSK

The navigator© wrote:

Yes, I'll accept any books you send in partial payment of your debt to
me.

I don't owe you anything except possibly a hiding, you welsher.

Talking of geodesics, have you found out what one is yet

Considering that I have built them, probably yes.

and why
they DON'T completely obstruct the interior of racing boats?

Of course, ones that don't have them.


bwhahhahaha

What an intelligent response. Did you learn that in your Junior Naval
Architecture course?

DSK

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

Here in NZ we have to get vessels inspected every 2 years for their
seaworthiness and without a CAT1 clearance the vessel is not allowed to
leave (if owned by a NZ resident). The inspection takes up to ~2 hours
and the inspector also questions the skipper on his seamanship (it helps
if you already have qualifications like Ocean yachtmaster or even
Coastal skipper) for it is also the application his knowledge that makes
the vessel seaworthy (or not).

Are you boasting about this??

You have little men in peaked caps who have the authority to stop you from
setting to sea because they dissapprove of your vessel?? What kind of
fascist dictatorship do you live in?



In many cases vessel arrive here from
overseas which are patently unseaworthy and these days they are allowed
to leave -after a strong talking to by the inspector as to why their
vessels are unsuitable

.... and what qualifications do these "inspectors" have? I bet that they are
recruited from the educational system's failures.
I bet that they are paid a low salary, and they have a great pension scheme.


and what will likely happen to them in bad
conditions. For that reason, it would seem that many US and EU vessels
arrive but never leave.

....and I bet that an even greater number never even arrive! Why would
someone sail around the world to visit a country that paid idiots to tell
the visitors that their craft were not seaworthy? Fer cryin' out loud, if
you sail to NZ, then your boat *must* be seaworthy.



When the real sailor thinks about his vessel he thinks about how she
will cope if hit by storm force winds in the open sea if he wishes to
call his vessel seaworthy. If the vessel is not seaworthy then it is
just a toy for amusement on nice fair wind days. The question is, to you
have a toy or a seaworthy vessel? How many people here even have a storm
jib?

Mind your own bloody business.

The real question is "Do you need some small minded civil servant to tell
you if your vessel is seaworthy?".

I do NOT.



Regards


Donal
--

Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


Here in NZ we have to get vessels inspected every 2 years for their
seaworthiness and without a CAT1 clearance the vessel is not allowed to
leave (if owned by a NZ resident). The inspection takes up to ~2 hours
and the inspector also questions the skipper on his seamanship (it helps
if you already have qualifications like Ocean yachtmaster or even
Coastal skipper) for it is also the application his knowledge that makes
the vessel seaworthy (or not).


Are you boasting about this??

No. Just stating facts FYI.


You have little men in peaked caps who have the authority to stop you from
setting to sea because they dissapprove of your vessel?? What kind of
fascist dictatorship do you live in?


I think it's quite fair. The southern ocean is a big hostile place
Donal. Suicide is illegal too -does that make the UK a fascist
dictatorship?



In many cases vessel arrive here from
overseas which are patently unseaworthy and these days they are allowed
to leave -after a strong talking to by the inspector as to why their
vessels are unsuitable


... and what qualifications do these "inspectors" have? I bet that they are
recruited from the educational system's failures.
I bet that they are paid a low salary, and they have a great pension scheme.


The ones I've met are all ex professional mariner with ocean yachtmaster
examiner certs or equivalent. Most have circumnavigated under sail -or
at least crossed the pacific. All are (or were) boating education
instructors.


and what will likely happen to them in bad
conditions. For that reason, it would seem that many US and EU vessels
arrive but never leave.


...and I bet that an even greater number never even arrive! Why would
someone sail around the world to visit a country that paid idiots to tell
the visitors that their craft were not seaworthy? Fer cryin' out loud, if
you sail to NZ, then your boat *must* be seaworthy.


No it may not be think about it... From the very definition of the word
and that most people have never experienced a storm at sea.

When the real sailor thinks about his vessel he thinks about how she
will cope if hit by storm force winds in the open sea if he wishes to
call his vessel seaworthy. If the vessel is not seaworthy then it is
just a toy for amusement on nice fair wind days. The question is, to you
have a toy or a seaworthy vessel? How many people here even have a storm
jib?


Mind your own bloody business.

The real question is "Do you need some small minded civil servant to tell
you if your vessel is seaworthy?".

I do NOT.

So you think it is?

Cheers MC

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


Here in NZ we have to get vessels inspected every 2 years for their
seaworthiness and without a CAT1 clearance the vessel is not allowed to
leave (if owned by a NZ resident). The inspection takes up to ~2 hours
and the inspector also questions the skipper on his seamanship (it helps
if you already have qualifications like Ocean yachtmaster or even
Coastal skipper) for it is also the application his knowledge that makes
the vessel seaworthy (or not).


Are you boasting about this??

No. Just stating facts FYI.


You have little men in peaked caps who have the authority to stop you
from
setting to sea because they dissapprove of your vessel?? What kind of
fascist dictatorship do you live in?


I think it's quite fair. The southern ocean is a big hostile place
Donal. Suicide is illegal too -does that make the UK a fascist
dictatorship?



In many cases vessel arrive here from
overseas which are patently unseaworthy and these days they are allowed
to leave -after a strong talking to by the inspector as to why their
vessels are unsuitable


... and what qualifications do these "inspectors" have? I bet that they
are
recruited from the educational system's failures.
I bet that they are paid a low salary, and they have a great pension
scheme.


The ones I've met are all ex professional mariner with ocean yachtmaster
examiner certs or equivalent. Most have circumnavigated under sail -or
at least crossed the pacific. All are (or were) boating education
instructors.


and what will likely happen to them in bad
conditions. For that reason, it would seem that many US and EU vessels
arrive but never leave.


...and I bet that an even greater number never even arrive! Why would
someone sail around the world to visit a country that paid idiots to
tell
the visitors that their craft were not seaworthy? Fer cryin' out loud,
if
you sail to NZ, then your boat *must* be seaworthy.


No it may not be think about it... From the very definition of the word
and that most people have never experienced a storm at sea.

When the real sailor thinks about his vessel he thinks about how she
will cope if hit by storm force winds in the open sea if he wishes to
call his vessel seaworthy. If the vessel is not seaworthy then it is
just a toy for amusement on nice fair wind days. The question is, to you
have a toy or a seaworthy vessel? How many people here even have a storm
jib?


Mind your own bloody business.

The real question is "Do you need some small minded civil servant to
tell
you if your vessel is seaworthy?".

I do NOT.

So you think it is?

Actually, I don't. I wouldn't choose to take her across the Atlantic.
However I would feel happy about taking her across Biscay. Go figure?

I often find it difficult to imagine the sailing conditions in different
parts of the world, so I have modified my opinions after reading the
responses in this thread. I still have a problem with civil servants
deciding whether my boat is fit, or not. However, I accept that providing
a rescue service over such a wide area is difficult - and expensive.


Regards


Donal
--

In article ,
The_navigator© wrote:

It seems to me that there is not much idea around here as to what
constitutes seaworthiness. Here in NZ the conditions are more
challenging than in many other places and to sail offshore requires
great attention to detail and sound knowledge of your vessel. Many
people here might consider their vessels "seaworthy", but let me remind
you that seaworthiness is a state of preparedness and safely for major
passages and suitability for storm conditions.

Here in NZ we have to get vessels inspected every 2 years for their
seaworthiness and without a CAT1 clearance the vessel is not allowed to
leave (if owned by a NZ resident). The inspection takes up to ~2 hours
and the inspector also questions the skipper on his seamanship (it helps
if you already have qualifications like Ocean yachtmaster or even
Coastal skipper) for it is also the application his knowledge that makes
the vessel seaworthy (or not).

[snip]

Here in Australia we can build/buy anything we like and sail it
anywhere there's enough water to float it.

Once again I count myself lucky to be an Australian instead of a NZ'er.
Ocean yachtmaster or coastal skipper before you can go sailing??? Give
me a break.

All we really need to do is restrict EPIRB's to people with insurance
sufficient to cover the cost of SAR and the whole problem would go
away. Boat unseaworthy and/or incompetent crew? So sad, too bad. Learn
to swim or stay home.

There's a Russian in a 12' sailboat, Navvie, who's gone a lot further
in it than you have managed in your boat, and done it single-handed,
which you can't do in yours. Nobody in NZ would be allowed to leave
port in such a cockleshell as that Russian has done. You lot are all
the poorer for it.

Peter Wiley