It seems to me that there is not much idea around here as to what
constitutes seaworthiness. Here in NZ the conditions are more
challenging than in many other places and to sail offshore requires
great attention to detail and sound knowledge of your vessel. Many
people here might consider their vessels "seaworthy", but let me remind
you that seaworthiness is a state of preparedness and safely for major
passages and suitability for storm conditions.

Here in NZ we have to get vessels inspected every 2 years for their
seaworthiness and without a CAT1 clearance the vessel is not allowed to
leave (if owned by a NZ resident). The inspection takes up to ~2 hours
and the inspector also questions the skipper on his seamanship (it helps
if you already have qualifications like Ocean yachtmaster or even
Coastal skipper) for it is also the application his knowledge that makes
the vessel seaworthy (or not). In many cases vessel arrive here from
overseas which are patently unseaworthy and these days they are allowed
to leave -after a strong talking to by the inspector as to why their
vessels are unsuitable and what will likely happen to them in bad
conditions. For that reason, it would seem that many US and EU vessels
arrive but never leave.

When the real sailor thinks about his vessel he thinks about how she
will cope if hit by storm force winds in the open sea if he wishes to
call his vessel seaworthy. If the vessel is not seaworthy then it is
just a toy for amusement on nice fair wind days. The question is, to you
have a toy or a seaworthy vessel? How many people here even have a storm
jib?

Cheers MC

The navigator© wrote:

It seems to me that there is not much idea around here as to what
constitutes seaworthiness.

Speaking for yourself only, of course.

Here in NZ the conditions are more
challenging than in many other places

Due to the constant inability of NZers to pay their debts?

DSK

They've eased up not under diplomatic pressure. As I said, they can
leave but with advice... As for LPG, the sniffer must have been broken
or had bad pipes. That would be a serious worry for me!

Cheers MC

Donals Dilemma wrote:

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 10:15:15 +1300, The_navigator©
wrote:


Here in NZ we have to get vessels inspected every 2 years for their
seaworthiness and without a CAT1 clearance the vessel is not allowed to
leave (if owned by a NZ resident).


Apparently applies to all vessels regardless of ownership.
A good friend of mine "escaped" NZ late at night after buying a boat
there taht was in exceptional condition but which had not been passed
because IIRC the LPG system was not up to code.
She was not allowed to leave without the whole lot being pulled out
and reinstalled by an expert.
She chose to run for it and when back in Oz had the system inspected
for insurance confirmation..passed OK.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Is your comprehension defective? YOU LOST.

Cheers MC

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


It seems to me that there is not much idea around here as to what
constitutes seaworthiness.


Speaking for yourself only, of course.


Here in NZ the conditions are more
challenging than in many other places


Due to the constant inability of NZers to pay their debts?

DSK

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

Here in NZ we have to get vessels inspected every 2 years for their
seaworthiness and without a CAT1 clearance the vessel is not allowed to
leave (if owned by a NZ resident). The inspection takes up to ~2 hours
and the inspector also questions the skipper on his seamanship (it helps
if you already have qualifications like Ocean yachtmaster or even
Coastal skipper) for it is also the application his knowledge that makes
the vessel seaworthy (or not).

Are you boasting about this??

You have little men in peaked caps who have the authority to stop you from
setting to sea because they dissapprove of your vessel?? What kind of
fascist dictatorship do you live in?



In many cases vessel arrive here from
overseas which are patently unseaworthy and these days they are allowed
to leave -after a strong talking to by the inspector as to why their
vessels are unsuitable

.... and what qualifications do these "inspectors" have? I bet that they are
recruited from the educational system's failures.
I bet that they are paid a low salary, and they have a great pension scheme.


and what will likely happen to them in bad
conditions. For that reason, it would seem that many US and EU vessels
arrive but never leave.

....and I bet that an even greater number never even arrive! Why would
someone sail around the world to visit a country that paid idiots to tell
the visitors that their craft were not seaworthy? Fer cryin' out loud, if
you sail to NZ, then your boat *must* be seaworthy.



When the real sailor thinks about his vessel he thinks about how she
will cope if hit by storm force winds in the open sea if he wishes to
call his vessel seaworthy. If the vessel is not seaworthy then it is
just a toy for amusement on nice fair wind days. The question is, to you
have a toy or a seaworthy vessel? How many people here even have a storm
jib?

Mind your own bloody business.

The real question is "Do you need some small minded civil servant to tell
you if your vessel is seaworthy?".

I do NOT.



Regards


Donal
--

I've never seen a certificate of complaince for boat LPG...

Cheers MC

Donals Dilemma wrote:

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:51:43 +1300, The_navigator©
wrote:


They've eased up not under diplomatic pressure. As I said, they can
leave but with advice... As for LPG, the sniffer must have been broken
or had bad pipes. That would be a serious worry for me!

Cheers MC


Not sure of the circumstances wityh the LPG, I believe it was handyman
installed and didn't have a cert of compliance. It was under 4 years
old and not leaking.
As I said it was perfectly OK...I did the inpection myself when she
arrived here and had no hesitation in issuing a certificate. It was as
good as it gets.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

The navigator© wrote:

Is your comprehension defective?

I comprehend that you have yet to post a single fact in support of your
contention.


YOU LOST.

Sorry, you're wrong. I guess you are used to it though.

How about a consolation prize, a nice geodesic grid structure? Or maybe
you'd rather have an aerodynamic textbook explaining the difference
between planform and cross section?

DSK

Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


Here in NZ we have to get vessels inspected every 2 years for their
seaworthiness and without a CAT1 clearance the vessel is not allowed to
leave (if owned by a NZ resident). The inspection takes up to ~2 hours
and the inspector also questions the skipper on his seamanship (it helps
if you already have qualifications like Ocean yachtmaster or even
Coastal skipper) for it is also the application his knowledge that makes
the vessel seaworthy (or not).


Are you boasting about this??

No. Just stating facts FYI.


You have little men in peaked caps who have the authority to stop you from
setting to sea because they dissapprove of your vessel?? What kind of
fascist dictatorship do you live in?


I think it's quite fair. The southern ocean is a big hostile place
Donal. Suicide is illegal too -does that make the UK a fascist
dictatorship?



In many cases vessel arrive here from
overseas which are patently unseaworthy and these days they are allowed
to leave -after a strong talking to by the inspector as to why their
vessels are unsuitable


... and what qualifications do these "inspectors" have? I bet that they are
recruited from the educational system's failures.
I bet that they are paid a low salary, and they have a great pension scheme.


The ones I've met are all ex professional mariner with ocean yachtmaster
examiner certs or equivalent. Most have circumnavigated under sail -or
at least crossed the pacific. All are (or were) boating education
instructors.


and what will likely happen to them in bad
conditions. For that reason, it would seem that many US and EU vessels
arrive but never leave.


...and I bet that an even greater number never even arrive! Why would
someone sail around the world to visit a country that paid idiots to tell
the visitors that their craft were not seaworthy? Fer cryin' out loud, if
you sail to NZ, then your boat *must* be seaworthy.


No it may not be think about it... From the very definition of the word
and that most people have never experienced a storm at sea.

When the real sailor thinks about his vessel he thinks about how she
will cope if hit by storm force winds in the open sea if he wishes to
call his vessel seaworthy. If the vessel is not seaworthy then it is
just a toy for amusement on nice fair wind days. The question is, to you
have a toy or a seaworthy vessel? How many people here even have a storm
jib?


Mind your own bloody business.

The real question is "Do you need some small minded civil servant to tell
you if your vessel is seaworthy?".

I do NOT.

So you think it is?

Cheers MC

Yes, I'll accept any books you send in partial payment of your debt to
me. Talking of geodesics, have you found out what one is yet and why
they DON'T completely obstruct the interior of racing boats? bwhahhahaha

Cheers MC

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


Is your comprehension defective?


I comprehend that you have yet to post a single fact in support of your
contention.



YOU LOST.


Sorry, you're wrong. I guess you are used to it though.

How about a consolation prize, a nice geodesic grid structure? Or maybe
you'd rather have an aerodynamic textbook explaining the difference
between planform and cross section?

DSK

I guess you live in a "fascist state" too! The cylinders won't be filled
if they are rusty but apart from that I've not seen any restrictions.
Certainly my insurance does not require a certificate...

Cheers MC

Donals Dilemma wrote:

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:15:52 +1300, The_navigator©
wrote:


I've never seen a certificate of complaince for boat LPG...

Cheers MC


You're kidding?
All mobile (read caravans and trailers) and marine LPG installation
MUST be inspected and certified here to get insurance.
Insurance coys insist on reinspection at least at change of ownership
and most every 5 years min.
Cylinders MUST be galvanised for marine and in current inspection to
be refilled.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.