| Home |
| Search |
| Today's Posts |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Seaworthiness of Mac26
Granted the Mac26 is not an offshore boat, but what can she do? One
poster said he would not take one out of sight of land so lets consider this. First, most boat accidents happen within sight of land because thats where the boats hit stuff, like land. So, out of sight of land, aside from an occasional collision, weather is the major hazard so let's examine the possible hazards. Hurricanes: Any Mac owner who finds himself in a hurricane is the victim of his own stupidity. I cannot envision any possible excuse to find oneself in such a situation. Unexpected storm, like the Storm of the Century: Actually, most mariners should have expected it. I was due to leave that day for a sailing trip but two days before had noticed an odd low in the Western Gulf. CG posted small craft warnings. I put off my trip. Within 24 hours there were local gale warnings. I know of no small craft operator on any reasonable (for a Mac26) passage of say 48 hours that got caught in this and injured who can honestly say they had no warning. NorEaster: I have no experience with them. Pacific storms: No experience Thunderstorms and line squalls: These are legit hazards because they are fairly unpredictable and isolated. Winds can go from 0 to 70 kts to 0 in an hour and be dead calm 5 miles away. All Florida sailors will eventually find themselves in one and probably several. On my S2, my technique is: First recognize them by hearing thunder (duh), then look to see if I can go around it. This is sometimes possible because they are local but since a sailboat moves slow and sometimes its (the storm) direction of movement is uncertain, this only works about 30% of the time. make sure anchor is ready for possible deployment if near shallow water. Look for the slight coolness of the wind that signals it is near and approaching. TAKE DOWN SAILS NOW if you feel it. Evaluate searoom and try to get into deeper water with engine. As wind gets strong, try to power into it to keep bow pointed toward it. It I cannot keep bow pointed toward the wind, execute a very fast turn and run with wind on the stern quarter. Try to stay out of shallow water. If necessary, deploy anchor. A Mac26 can do all of this and better since it has more power and speed. If the storms direction can be ascertained, it can easily power around it. Since most such storms occur near the ocean/land interface, safe harbor is probably close for powering too at 17 kts. I have noticed that such isolated storms do not greatly enhance the wave height because they are so local and short lived. Storms imbedded in a front can be associated with big waves but these are obvious on a weather map and avoided. This means that a Mac26 can power away from such a storm at speeds greatly in excess of the speed of a REAL sailboat. Another point about going out of sight of land: Why go out there if you can avoid it? After a few minutes, all the waves look the same (ok, so theres an occasional crazy one). The interesting stuff is near land. All teh times I have gone out of sight of land was because it was the fastest way to get somewhere or the only way for my 4' draft. With the Mac26 very shallow draft, it is not limited in this way so should spend far less time on such unnecessary passages. |
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
|
Seaworthiness of Mac26
|
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
|
Seaworthiness of Mac26
rhys wrote:
...Nobody blames PortaBote owners for getting the sailing rig option, so I find the criticisms of the Mac26X *as a sailing vessel* a little pointless, AFAIK nobody has *criticised* the sailing performance of the Mac 26X, only pointed out that it is not at all what it is often claimed to be. If you saw Porta-Bote advertising that their sailing rig option will beat Tornado Cats and is by far the most aerodynamically advanced vessel yet produced by Western civilization, you might shake your head a bit. Is the Macgregor 26X a badly built boat? Separate issue entirely. Is it the ******* offspring of a powerboat and a dinghy? Oh, probably, but so what? Many people like that sort of thing, and as long as they understand COLREGs, it's irrelevant to my sailing experience. Agreed. But would you let your brother buy one?  Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
|
Seaworthiness of Mac26
"Parallax" wrote in message
om... Granted the Mac26 is not an offshore boat, but what can she do? One poster said he would not take one out of sight of land so lets consider this. First, most boat accidents happen within sight of land because thats where the boats hit stuff, like land. So, out of sight of land, aside from an occasional collision, weather is the major hazard so let's examine the possible hazards. Hurricanes: Any Mac owner who finds himself in a hurricane is the victim of his own stupidity. I cannot envision any possible excuse to find oneself in such a situation. This could be said of any sailor. However, Hurricane Bob ran up the coast so fast that New England had about 24 hours notice. What would a Mac owner do if he were more than 24 hours from his trailer, other than call his insurance agent? Unexpected storm, like the Storm of the Century: Actually, most mariners should have expected it. I was due to leave that day for a sailing trip but two days before had noticed an odd low in the Western Gulf. CG posted small craft warnings. I put off my trip. Within 24 hours there were local gale warnings. I know of no small craft operator on any reasonable (for a Mac26) passage of say 48 hours that got caught in this and injured who can honestly say they had no warning. NorEaster: I have no experience with them. Pacific storms: No experience Thunderstorms and line squalls: These are legit hazards because they are fairly unpredictable and isolated. snip A Mac26 can do all of this and better since it has more power and speed. If the storms direction can be ascertained, it can easily power around it. Since most such storms occur near the ocean/land interface, safe harbor is probably close for powering too at 17 kts. Why does everyone use "17 knots" as the speed of a Mac 26? The high speeds mentioned on the web site were only achieved with a stripped down boat, no ballast, no mast, rigging or sail, limited fuel, no water and limited safety gear. One very light skipper. If you read the boards, you'll find that most mac owners report speeds of around 12 mph or less for a loaded boat, worse if heading into a chop. And they report it can get very sloppy. While that is still somewhat faster than most "normal" sailboats, its really only a little faster; I've been on a number of boats that can power all day at over 7 knots, or 8 mph. I have noticed that such isolated storms do not greatly enhance the wave height because they are so local and short lived. Storms imbedded in a front can be associated with big waves but these are obvious on a weather map and avoided. This means that a Mac26 can power away from such a storm at speeds greatly in excess of the speed of a REAL sailboat. You're assuming that that boat was in very protected water to start. What if it was in the ocean and the was 3-4 foot chop to start? In this case, the mac won't be that much faster than a real sailboat. You seem to have ignored a large category of weather: What about days that are simply windy and rough? Every year I usually find myself in 30 to 35 knots, seas 4-6 feet. Usually it is outside of the range predicted, though not completely unexpected. How well does the Mac handle this? Can it make headway to windward? It certainly can't do 17 knots, it might not be able to do 7 knots. And what would happen of the engine wouldn't start? Another point about going out of sight of land: Why go out there if you can avoid it? After a few minutes, all the waves look the same (ok, so theres an occasional crazy one). The interesting stuff is near land. This all depends on where you are - in New England one often goes 3 or 4 miles off just to go down the coast to the next harbor. With a light fog that's out of sight of land. All teh times I have gone out of sight of land was because it was the fastest way to get somewhere or the only way for my 4' draft. With the Mac26 very shallow draft, it is not limited in this way so should spend far less time on such unnecessary passages. Many of the truly great sails I've had were in condition where I would not want to take a Mac 26x. If this doesn't appeal to you, if you only seek the pleasures of a completely protected bay, then maybe a mac is the right boat for you. |
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
|
Seaworthiness of Mac26
If this doesn't appeal to you, if you only seek the
pleasures of a completely protected bay, then maybe a mac is the right boat for you. and you're not a MAN who sails a manly REAL sailboat in manly deep waters under the threat of mansize weather conditions. |
|
#6
|
|||
|
|||
|
Seaworthiness of Mac26
On Long Island Sound, I have seen my WSI pegged at 60 knots plus strong,
sustained gusts for upwards of 15 minutes at a time, when a serious thunderstorm goes over the Connecticut shore (reports of 90 knot winds happen every few years). I have seen 50+ knots for more than 60 minutes out of 90 minutes under such conditions. no way in hell would I wish to be out there in a boat with the weak rigging of a mac 26, as the rigging was presented on a mac on display in the water at the Annapolis boat show. Granted the Mac26 is not an offshore boat, but what can she do? One poster said he would not take one out of sight of land so lets consider this. First, most boat accidents happen within sight of land because thats where the boats hit stuff, like land. So, out of sight of land, aside from an occasional collision, weather is the major hazard so let's examine the possible hazards. Hurricanes: Any Mac owner who finds himself in a hurricane is the victim of his own stupidity. I cannot envision any possible excuse to find oneself in such a situation. Unexpected storm, like the Storm of the Century: Actually, most mariners should have expected it. I was due to leave that day for a sailing trip but two days before had noticed an odd low in the Western Gulf. CG posted small craft warnings. I put off my trip. Within 24 hours there were local gale warnings. I know of no small craft operator on any reasonable (for a Mac26) passage of say 48 hours that got caught in this and injured who can honestly say they had no warning. NorEaster: I have no experience with them. Pacific storms: No experience Thunderstorms and line squalls: These are legit hazards because they are fairly unpredictable and isolated. Winds can go from 0 to 70 kts to 0 in an hour and be dead calm 5 miles away. All Florida sailors will eventually find themselves in one and probably several. On my S2, my technique is: First recognize them by hearing thunder (duh), then look to see if I can go around it. This is sometimes possible because they are local but since a sailboat moves slow and sometimes its (the storm) direction of movement is uncertain, this only works about 30% of the time. make sure anchor is ready for possible deployment if near shallow water. Look for the slight coolness of the wind that signals it is near and approaching. TAKE DOWN SAILS NOW if you feel it. Evaluate searoom and try to get into deeper water with engine. As wind gets strong, try to power into it to keep bow pointed toward it. It I cannot keep bow pointed toward the wind, execute a very fast turn and run with wind on the stern quarter. Try to stay out of shallow water. If necessary, deploy anchor. A Mac26 can do all of this and better since it has more power and speed. If the storms direction can be ascertained, it can easily power around it. Since most such storms occur near the ocean/land interface, safe harbor is probably close for powering too at 17 kts. I have noticed that such isolated storms do not greatly enhance the wave height because they are so local and short lived. Storms imbedded in a front can be associated with big waves but these are obvious on a weather map and avoided. This means that a Mac26 can power away from such a storm at speeds greatly in excess of the speed of a REAL sailboat. Another point about going out of sight of land: Why go out there if you can avoid it? After a few minutes, all the waves look the same (ok, so theres an occasional crazy one). The interesting stuff is near land. All teh times I have gone out of sight of land was because it was the fastest way to get somewhere or the only way for my 4' draft. With the Mac26 very shallow draft, it is not limited in this way so should spend far less time on such unnecessary passages. |
|
#7
|
|||
|
|||
|
Seaworthiness of Mac26
Nobody blames PortaBote owners for getting the sailing rig option
I own a Porta-Bote and am happy with it. I do not own the sailing rig for it, have never met anyone who did or does own the sailing rig for it, and have heard stories of stories or stories that there exists no satisfied owner of the sailing rig for the bote. |
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
|
Seaworthiness of Mac26
Do you have a point? Parallax claims there's nothing of interest "out of sight
of land" and with a shallow draft boat, no reason to go there. I'm just agreeing that if he sees it that way, the Mac might be the right boat for him. Frankly, half of my sailing life was been spent in very protected waters, so I understand the appeal of inland sailing. But I've found I also enjoy coastal cruising in environments that would be beyond the capabilities of a Mac. Sorry if that logic offends you. "Quest0029" wrote in message ... If this doesn't appeal to you, if you only seek the pleasures of a completely protected bay, then maybe a mac is the right boat for you. and you're not a MAN who sails a manly REAL sailboat in manly deep waters under the threat of mansize weather conditions. |
|
#9
|
|||
|
|||
|
Seaworthiness of Mac26
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...
"Parallax" wrote in message om... Granted the Mac26 is not an offshore boat, but what can she do? One poster said he would not take one out of sight of land so lets consider this. First, most boat accidents happen within sight of land because thats where the boats hit stuff, like land. So, out of sight of land, aside from an occasional collision, weather is the major hazard so let's examine the possible hazards. Hurricanes: Any Mac owner who finds himself in a hurricane is the victim of his own stupidity. I cannot envision any possible excuse to find oneself in such a situation. This could be said of any sailor. However, Hurricane Bob ran up the coast so fast that New England had about 24 hours notice. What would a Mac owner do if he were more than 24 hours from his trailer, other than call his insurance agent? Unexpected storm, like the Storm of the Century: Actually, most mariners should have expected it. I was due to leave that day for a sailing trip but two days before had noticed an odd low in the Western Gulf. CG posted small craft warnings. I put off my trip. Within 24 hours there were local gale warnings. I know of no small craft operator on any reasonable (for a Mac26) passage of say 48 hours that got caught in this and injured who can honestly say they had no warning. NorEaster: I have no experience with them. Pacific storms: No experience Thunderstorms and line squalls: These are legit hazards because they are fairly unpredictable and isolated. snip A Mac26 can do all of this and better since it has more power and speed. If the storms direction can be ascertained, it can easily power around it. Since most such storms occur near the ocean/land interface, safe harbor is probably close for powering too at 17 kts. Why does everyone use "17 knots" as the speed of a Mac 26? The high speeds mentioned on the web site were only achieved with a stripped down boat, no ballast, no mast, rigging or sail, limited fuel, no water and limited safety gear. One very light skipper. If you read the boards, you'll find that most mac owners report speeds of around 12 mph or less for a loaded boat, worse if heading into a chop. And they report it can get very sloppy. While that is still somewhat faster than most "normal" sailboats, its really only a little faster; I've been on a number of boats that can power all day at over 7 knots, or 8 mph. I have noticed that such isolated storms do not greatly enhance the wave height because they are so local and short lived. Storms imbedded in a front can be associated with big waves but these are obvious on a weather map and avoided. This means that a Mac26 can power away from such a storm at speeds greatly in excess of the speed of a REAL sailboat. You're assuming that that boat was in very protected water to start. What if it was in the ocean and the was 3-4 foot chop to start? In this case, the mac won't be that much faster than a real sailboat. You seem to have ignored a large category of weather: What about days that are simply windy and rough? Every year I usually find myself in 30 to 35 knots, seas 4-6 feet. Usually it is outside of the range predicted, though not completely unexpected. How well does the Mac handle this? Can it make headway to windward? It certainly can't do 17 knots, it might not be able to do 7 knots. And what would happen of the engine wouldn't start? Another point about going out of sight of land: Why go out there if you can avoid it? After a few minutes, all the waves look the same (ok, so theres an occasional crazy one). The interesting stuff is near land. This all depends on where you are - in New England one often goes 3 or 4 miles off just to go down the coast to the next harbor. With a light fog that's out of sight of land. All teh times I have gone out of sight of land was because it was the fastest way to get somewhere or the only way for my 4' draft. With the Mac26 very shallow draft, it is not limited in this way so should spend far less time on such unnecessary passages. Many of the truly great sails I've had were in condition where I would not want to take a Mac 26x. If this doesn't appeal to you, if you only seek the pleasures of a completely protected bay, then maybe a mac is the right boat for you. Jeff: I use 17 kts because that is reported by several ppl on Mac26 cruising sites. As far as what a Mac26 owner would do if a Hurricane was approaching and he couldnt get his trailer to his boat, the question makes no sense. When she is not being sailed, she IS on the trailer. However, in the unlikely case of her not being on the trailer but in a slip, he does what all other sailboat owners do, checks to make sure his insurance policy is paid up, then considers if he can secure her better. During hurricane season, I leave my S2 in a state of hurricane readiness (summer is just too hot to sail all the time, I sail in cooler weather). For the occasional 35 kt "storm", I am certain a Mac26 can handle it. One web site talks about sailing a lot in such weather in a Mac26, dunno if he really does. Here, if I see fog, I get very cautious, even light fog. I been lost in fog enough to know how fast light fog becomes pea soup. Generally, foggy conditions are also very light wind conditions so it is not any more a hazard to the Mac26 than to any other boat. I am also not assuming "very protected water" but the open Gulf of Mexico. The NE gulf is VERY shallow and gets a nasty chop. Still, a 50 hp motor sure beats my old 6.5 hp Yanmar 1GM on my S2 (replaced by a 13 hp 2GM). |
|
#10
|
|||
|
|||
|
Seaworthiness of Mac26
On Tue, 18 May 2004 16:02:41 -0400, DSK wrote:
AFAIK nobody has *criticised* the sailing performance of the Mac 26X, only pointed out that it is not at all what it is often claimed to be. Well, even looking at grainy pictures of it I can tell it will point like a barge. "Can sail" and "can sail well" are relative. If you saw Porta-Bote advertising that their sailing rig option will beat Tornado Cats and is by far the most aerodynamically advanced vessel yet produced by Western civilization, you might shake your head a bit. Like a junkie with Parkinson's, yes. Is the Macgregor 26X a badly built boat? Separate issue entirely. Is it the ******* offspring of a powerboat and a dinghy? Oh, probably, but so what? Many people like that sort of thing, and as long as they understand COLREGs, it's irrelevant to my sailing experience. Agreed. But would you let your brother buy one? Sure, if he was picking it over a powerboat...but I'd take the thing under tow if the wind picked up. G Seriously, they look like nothing I'd enjoy, but one more sailboat, even a Macgregor, instead of one more jetski, has *got* to be the lesser of two evils, wouldn't you agree? I try not to sneer at trimarans and cats, either, because they provide a *different*, but equally valid and perfectly enjoyable alternative to my preferred monohull. Where I tend to get snotty is on the issue of seaworthiness: if you accept that a cat with a big flat sliding glass door on its bridge is going to have issues in a following sea, then you understand my objections are not to catamarans, but to catamarans that want to be patio sunrooms. South Africa builds some apparently incredibly tough blue-water cats (they'd have to, given the conditions there), and while I'd personally have to learn to sail 'em, I'd let the brother buy one. Over a Macgregor, even. R. |
| Reply |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Forum | |||
| Seaworthiness | Boat Building | |||
Linear Mode
