In article , Donals Dilemma
wrote:

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 01:05:43 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:


"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
...
Here in Australia we can build/buy anything we like and sail it
anywhere there's enough water to float it.

Top marks!

If Oz has his way, you won't be able to get out if bed without a bloody
certificate!

Quite the contrary my dear Donal.
I have no sailing qualifications and carry letters of recommendation
whenever I travel and plan on doing any sailing or chartering.

There was a few years ago a push by Govt to require licensing of
anyone who wished to take a boat outside of enclosed water. I was a
vigorous campaigner against this move but was behind regulations that
require certification regarding First Aid and use of survival
equipment for offshore races where boats are pushed into conditions
where the normal rec sailor wouldn't venture.

Heh. All of my people (including myself) have current first aid,
survival at sea & marine firefighting certs. Most of us are qualified
SCUBA divers and have boat licences of various types, limited coxwain
or full coxwain being most common.

Try putting out a fuel oil fire in a (simulated) bilge with grates,
deck plates etc if you want something really scary.

PDW

Not more than once....

I've had the pleasure of putting out a fire from a 45kg cylinder when
the pressure release valve had triggered, and one from a 4" main with a
pipe flange rupture. Both under controlled conditions as part of my
training. It takes 2 people to snuff one of these, you can't do it
alone and you definitely can't do it with a fire extinguisher. Takes a
full sized fire hose.

Fires on ships are one of the worst things that can happen.

Peter Wiley

In article ,
The_navigator© wrote:

No **** sherlock. Has anyone ever tackled an explosion with an extinguisher?

Cheers MC


Simple Simon wrote:

An alcohol fire is easier to put out than a gas explosion.

Careless people will muck up anything. Statistics showing
that fact should not daunt a careful sailor. A careful
sailor makes sure fires don't start in the first place.
This is easy with alcohol but harder with explosive
gas. A smart man chooses danger he can control over
danger that controls him.

S.Simon


Donals Dilemma wrote in message
...

On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:48:36 -0500, "Simple Simon"
wrote:


I've seen several pictures of such explosions and that is
the main reason I will not have heavier than air gas on my
boat. Alcohol is more expensive but it is more safe and
safety is my prime consideration as it should be with
any sensible man.

S.Simon

There are actually far more alcohol fires on boats than LPG
explosions.
http://www.practical-sailor.com/news...90Letters3.pdf

It's dangerous because people think its safe!


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Who cares!
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

You're a complete idiot. You have no idea how big Australia's SAR zone
is. Some of it is so far away that the Navy has to take a fleet oiler
with them, or charter a deep ocean fishing boat. The fuel costs alone
exceed any collection of individuals' contributions.

As I said, if EPIRB's were restricted to people with insurance against
rescue costs and the rest of us took our chances, problem solved.

PDW

In article , Simple Simon
wrote:

And, now we come to the crux of the matter - money.

Don't any of you realize that rescue services were traditionally
supported and are still supported in some places (England, for
example) by donations and workers who actually volunteer.
It is sad that the rescue service in most places nowadays has
become a commercial enterprise that can write its own paycheck.
Who pays but the taxpayer but, as usual, the taxpayer has no
say in how his money is spent.

In the meantime rescue services grow and grow with more
highly trained people on the staff and more expensive
hardware. Rescue services become a self-fulfilling prophesy
and a bloated bureaucracy with the ability to pass silly
laws requiring inspections of yachts before they are
allowed to navigate. Ask yourself what kind of a business
is in the business of limiting their business? Answer - none!

What's hidden away is all this rescue business is to start
something and then grow it but grow it in a more profitable
way. There can be just as many rescuers on the staff and
just as much expensive hardware waiting around to rescue
two or three boats a season as opposed to two or three
dozen boats a year. However an extra layer of inspectors
and enforcers can be added to bloat the payroll even more
and no cuts in the rescuers themselves need ever be made.

Payroll gets larger, equipment expenses get larger. Next
comes taxes being raised or fees being imposed and then
more bureaucracy is hired because nobody wants to speak
up against a noble pursuit such a saving lives. Where does
it stop? Answer: it doesn't stop. Think about it and just
say no to rescuers unless they work on donations with
volunteers like traditional rescue services.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
Have you ANY idea what a rescue operation in the Southern Ocean costs?

Cheers MC

Donal wrote:

Donals Dilemma wrote in message
...


Umm it's a country that prefers to spent its taxpayers money on
hospitals and education NOT huge resources to rush to the aid of
idiots who set to sea in unseaworthy boats and with little or no
skills.



Are you SOOO politically correct that you are unable to see that checking
everybody's boat would cost far more than the occasional rescue?

What kind of world do we live in?



Regards


Donal
--

"The_navigator©" wrote.....

Here in NZ we .....

talk funny and never shear our sheep with nobody!

.. The question is, to you have a toy or a seaworthy vessel? How many
people here even have a storm jib?

Since my boat is a pleasure craft it is by definition a toy, seaworthy or
no. Question is why would anyone brag about an oppressive government? Have
you considered professional help for your condition - a good deprogrammer
perhaps?

The navigator© wrote:

Yes, I'll accept any books you send in partial payment of your debt to
me.

I don't owe you anything except possibly a hiding, you welsher.

Talking of geodesics, have you found out what one is yet

Considering that I have built them, probably yes.

and why
they DON'T completely obstruct the interior of racing boats?

Of course, ones that don't have them.


bwhahhahaha

What an intelligent response. Did you learn that in your Junior Naval
Architecture course?

DSK

Peter Wiley wrote:

Not more than once....

I've had the pleasure of putting out a fire from a 45kg cylinder when
the pressure release valve had triggered, and one from a 4" main with a
pipe flange rupture. Both under controlled conditions as part of my
training. It takes 2 people to snuff one of these, you can't do it
alone and you definitely can't do it with a fire extinguisher. Takes a
full sized fire hose.

It's also crucial to shut off the source of fuel for the fire. Few people realize
how well most fiberglass burns. Once a fire gets started on a small boat, the only
hope is to put it out FAST.




Fires on ships are one of the worst things that can happen.

Yes indeed. I once had the dubious pleasure of putting out a class C fire in a
ships laundry, which was located just above the helo fuel storage & pumping room.
I was careful to not show anybody else in the fire party the DC diagrams, didn't
want to start a panic! Much more fun than training.

Regards
Doug King

Halon is best?

Cheers MC

Peter Wiley wrote:
In article , Donals Dilemma
wrote:


On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 01:05:43 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:


"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
om...

Here in Australia we can build/buy anything we like and sail it
anywhere there's enough water to float it.

Top marks!

If Oz has his way, you won't be able to get out if bed without a bloody
certificate!

Quite the contrary my dear Donal.
I have no sailing qualifications and carry letters of recommendation
whenever I travel and plan on doing any sailing or chartering.

There was a few years ago a push by Govt to require licensing of
anyone who wished to take a boat outside of enclosed water. I was a
vigorous campaigner against this move but was behind regulations that
require certification regarding First Aid and use of survival
equipment for offshore races where boats are pushed into conditions
where the normal rec sailor wouldn't venture.


Heh. All of my people (including myself) have current first aid,
survival at sea & marine firefighting certs. Most of us are qualified
SCUBA divers and have boat licences of various types, limited coxwain
or full coxwain being most common.

Try putting out a fuel oil fire in a (simulated) bilge with grates,
deck plates etc if you want something really scary.

PDW

No doubt about that.

Cheers MC

Peter Wiley wrote:

Not more than once....

I've had the pleasure of putting out a fire from a 45kg cylinder when
the pressure release valve had triggered, and one from a 4" main with a
pipe flange rupture. Both under controlled conditions as part of my
training. It takes 2 people to snuff one of these, you can't do it
alone and you definitely can't do it with a fire extinguisher. Takes a
full sized fire hose.

Fires on ships are one of the worst things that can happen.

Peter Wiley

In article ,
The_navigator© wrote:


No **** sherlock. Has anyone ever tackled an explosion with an extinguisher?

Cheers MC


Simple Simon wrote:


An alcohol fire is easier to put out than a gas explosion.

Careless people will muck up anything. Statistics showing
that fact should not daunt a careful sailor. A careful
sailor makes sure fires don't start in the first place.
This is easy with alcohol but harder with explosive
gas. A smart man chooses danger he can control over
danger that controls him.

S.Simon


Donals Dilemma wrote in message
...


On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:48:36 -0500, "Simple Simon"
wrote:



I've seen several pictures of such explosions and that is
the main reason I will not have heavier than air gas on my
boat. Alcohol is more expensive but it is more safe and
safety is my prime consideration as it should be with
any sensible man.

S.Simon

There are actually far more alcohol fires on boats than LPG
explosions.
http://www.practical-sailor.com/news...90Letters3.pdf

It's dangerous because people think its safe!


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


Yes, I'll accept any books you send in partial payment of your debt to
me.


I don't owe you anything except possibly a hiding, you welsher.


So, what an excellent example of the human race you are. First you BS
and then when called out and shown to the world to be a BS artist you
threaten me with a hiding? You should hang your head in shame in apologize.


Talking of geodesics, have you found out what one is yet


Considering that I have built them, probably yes.


How do you build a geometry term?


and why
they DON'T completely obstruct the interior of racing boats?


Of course, ones that don't have them.


So you still think some do?



bwhahhahaha


What an intelligent response. Did you learn that in your Junior Naval
Architecture course?

It's an appropriate response to your buffonery.


Cheers MC