"DSK" wrote in message ...

It may be that with twin props, it's easier for you to veer out a second rode than for
other
tpyes of boats. Or if you are already determined to splash the dinghy.


There's some truth to that - and the large bow makes it a lot easier. But the real
breakthrough in my thinking was realizing that the angles didn't have to be perfect, and
for all its faults, the Fortress sets very, very easy - usually within a foot or so of
where it lands. I've only rowed it out in the "constrained" situation, where I couldn't
get the big boat where I want it - actually, I could have walked it out, since we were
trying to position in the middle of a very small creek.



The problem I have with the "one large anchor" approach is that you have to then use a
primary that's not just one level oversized, but two or three.

No, it just has to be the right size & type, with the right rode. It shouldn't be an
issue.

Maybe if you're going to carry 3 or 4 anchors anyway, you might as well carry smaller
ones and
use 'em two at a time? That sort of makes sense, especially in a multi.


Yes, on a Cat you don't want two "primary" anchors. I always wonder about boats with two
identical CQR's on the bow - what's the point?



Ah so, I thought you meant that you set a 2nd anchor most of the time. A Delta is like a
plow,
right? We have a 35# CQR (with the hinged shank) which we use most of the time
anchoring, and
it holds a 10 ton tugboat just fine. The night we anchored in the middle of Willoughby
Bay
(soft mud) in Norfolk in 40 knot winds it held just fine... on the second try, after I
got the
rags & old shoes & other trash cleared from it....


Yes, but how did you know that it wouldn't foul the second time? My 35# Delta has the
same rating as a 45# CQR, but in 40 knots I feel better with the Fortress sharing the
load.



Also, I'm convinced that two anchors offers much more security than one large,
especially
when the two are different styles. I've never dragged an inch with two anchors, nor
have
I heard of any such problem except in extreme conditions. And when the "big one"
comes,
I'll be pulling out a third.

My hurricane ground tackle is to be large (60 or 70#) Bruce with a bundle of of
cinderblock on
the chain.

Wouldn't you also set other anchors at different angles? A liveaboard friend likes to
point to a little Danforth stern anchor and say "That's the one that held us for the
'Storm of the Century' "


....

That's a good point, but hauling two sets is more difficult and time consuming. PLus, if
you're dragging, the amount of time spent raising & clearing the second anchor could be
10
seconds longer than the amount of time it takes to hit the bricks. And that's the one
time the
rodes will be twisted etc etc. I just don't like the idea, guess that makes me a
cantankerous
old fogey.


You're missing one point - the second is usually added after we've determined that maybe
the first isn't quite enough. If we drag with both (its never happened) I think I would
change anchorages.

If I've set two anchors and then someone tries to anchor too close, then I get a bit
testy.


heh heh that's when I pull out the 'lectric guitar.

For a while have a young kid helped, Bu Amelia's getting too big to play the crying baby.
Mollie the Water Dog, was bred to be a fog horn.


Have you read 'Coarse Cruising' by Michael Green? One of the funniest sailing books ever
written (in fact it gets my vote for definitely the funniest) and he has a dozen or so
hilarious anchoring stories.


British? Canal cruising? Yes - very funny Fortunately I couldn't find it in my basement
library just now, or I'd waste the day re-reading it!

Cheers!

-jeff

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Jeff Morris wrote:

.... actually, I could have walked it out, since we were
trying to position in the middle of a very small creek.

Aren't shoal draft boats great?


..... I always wonder about boats with two
identical CQR's on the bow - what's the point?

Me too. Kinda dumb IMHO.


...... The night we anchored in the middle of Willoughby Bay
(soft mud) in Norfolk in 40 knot winds it held just fine... on the second try, after I got
the
rags & old shoes & other trash cleared from it....


Yes, but how did you know that it wouldn't foul the second time? My 35# Delta has the
same rating as a 45# CQR, but in 40 knots I feel better with the Fortress sharing the
load.

I didn't know that it wouldn't foul the second time, I just knew that it was dragging
the first time and it had to come back up & be reset. When I put it down the second
time, I paid out about 12:1 scope to set it, and let it dig in with a light strain, then
backed down full throttle. We rarely do that for an overnight anchorage, but the
wind was expected to build and since it had dragged once already (actually it never
set properly), we wanted more confidence.

And it worked well, which was good, since it was a chilly night and quite late to be moving
around looking for a better spot. The night run through Norfolk harbor made me nervous,
especially after a hurricane had blown all the placards off the marks and there was lots of
debris in the water. First time I've ever done it with radar though.


My hurricane ground tackle is to be large (60 or 70#) Bruce with a bundle of of
cinderblock on
the chain.

Wouldn't you also set other anchors at different angles?

Probably not, unless we were in a relatively shallow anchorage with clear water and
an even bottom. The only thing multiple anchors do IMHO is limit swing circle. It
takes a lot of time & work to lay out multiple ground tackle, I'd rather invest the
same effort into setting bigger & more secure single anchor & then move on to other
tasks.

When we were preparing for Hurricane Isabel we spent two full days from dawn
until after dark. None of the jobs was all that big or difficult, just lots and lots of
picky details... such as putting on chafe gear that could be the deciding factor.


A liveaboard friend likes to
point to a little Danforth stern anchor and say "That's the one that held us for the
'Storm of the Century' "


Not to be mean but it seems he should have planned better. I say that in full
awareness that for the only hurricane I have had full responsibility for securing the boat, we
were holed up in a great spot pretty much by blind luck.


Have you read 'Coarse Cruising' by Michael Green?


British? Canal cruising? Yes - very funny Fortunately I couldn't find it in my basement
library just now, or I'd waste the day re-reading it!



You may be thinking of 'Coarse Sailing' which was about chartering on the Broads.
In 'Coarse Cruising' the same author owns shares a small cruiser with some friends, sailing to

France & Holland among other adventures... I'm going to go dig out my copy now...

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Jeff Morris wrote:

British? Canal cruising? Yes - very funny Fortunately I couldn't find
it in my basement
library just now, or I'd waste the day re-reading it!



You may be thinking of 'Coarse Sailing' which was about chartering on the
Broads.
In 'Coarse Cruising' the same author owns shares a small cruiser with some
friends, sailing to

France & Holland among other adventures... I'm going to go dig out my copy
now...

I got last year's Christmas present from this group. I think that I just
got an idea for this year's present.

Thank you, Doug & Jeff.



Regards


Donal
--

"Donal" wrote in message
...
I got last year's Christmas present from this group. I think that I just
got an idea for this year's present.

Thank you, Doug & Jeff.


You're getting your wife an anchor! How romantic!

Reminds me of the time my brother and I got our mother a cluster gear for the transmission
of her Model A Ford for Mother's Day.

Donal wrote:


I got last year's Christmas present from this group. I think that I just
got an idea for this year's present.

Thank you, Doug & Jeff.

You're welcome, just don't read either of these books while eating or drinking.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message ...
Jeff Morris wrote:

.... actually, I could have walked it out, since we were
trying to position in the middle of a very small creek.

Aren't shoal draft boats great?

This day its was even sweeter than normal because we were along up this little cove, while
300 boats were anchored out - It was a NY Yacht Club Rendezvous on the same day JFK Jr's
plane went down, so many didn't go over to the Vineyard. Here's a pic from our boat:

http://www.sv-loki.com/Along_the_Way/Hadley.jpg


A liveaboard friend likes to
point to a little Danforth stern anchor and say "That's the one that held us for the
'Storm of the Century' "


Not to be mean but it seems he should have planned better. I say that in full
awareness that for the only hurricane I have had full responsibility for securing the
boat, we
were holed up in a great spot pretty much by blind luck.


This was the big late winter Superstorm in 1993. They were somewhere south, maybe around
Albemarle Sound, or maybe further South. They carry two Delta-like experimental anchors
donated by one of the major manufacturers for testing. Since they have lived at anchor
for much of the last 20 years, they probably know more about the art (especially in the
ICW) than anyone. I believe they almost alone in small bay and set up the two primary
anchors in the direction from which they expected the worst wind. A backup Danforth was
rowed out to one side of the plows, and then as an afterthought, the stern anchor, an
experimental Danforth-like mud anchor with no stock was carried ashore toward the other
side and buried in the mud. It turned out the worst wind came from that direction and it
held just fine. As it happened the storm hit at low tide so the anchor was actually above
them - is that negative scope?


You may be thinking of 'Coarse Sailing' which was about chartering on the Broads.

I think you're right

In 'Coarse Cruising' the same author owns shares a small cruiser with some friends,
sailing to
France & Holland among other adventures... I'm going to go dig out my copy now...

Aren't shoal draft boats great?


Jeff Morris wrote:
This day its was even sweeter than normal because we were along up this little cove, while
300 boats were anchored out - It was a NY Yacht Club Rendezvous on the same day JFK Jr's
plane went down, so many didn't go over to the Vineyard. Here's a pic from our boat:

http://www.sv-loki.com/Along_the_Way/Hadley.jpg

Whew, what a crowd. How many boats ran agound trying to come in near you?




This was the big late winter Superstorm in 1993. They were somewhere south, maybe around
Albemarle Sound, or maybe further South. They carry two Delta-like experimental anchors
donated by one of the major manufacturers for testing. Since they have lived at anchor
for much of the last 20 years, they probably know more about the art (especially in the
ICW) than anyone. I believe they almost alone in small bay and set up the two primary
anchors in the direction from which they expected the worst wind. A backup Danforth was
rowed out to one side of the plows, and then as an afterthought, the stern anchor, an
experimental Danforth-like mud anchor with no stock was carried ashore toward the other
side and buried in the mud. It turned out the worst wind came from that direction and it
held just fine. As it happened the storm hit at low tide so the anchor was actually above
them - is that negative scope?

Thanks for the further info. I dunno about "negative scope" but it sounds like your friend is
seriously into ground tackle. I'm a little surprised that he was willing to trust an
experimental anchor though. This neck of the woods offers good holding ground mostly, but
there is often junk on the bottom (I know of one place in an otherwise ideal anchorage along
the Pamlico River that is literally paved... what's gonna hook in there??) and enough hard
things along the shore to hit that dragging can be a major bummer.

I am thinking seriously about replacing our plow with a spade, but I also want to put a bruce
anchor on there. We need a double bow roller to replace the current single, also we *really*
need a windlass.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message ...

Aren't shoal draft boats great?


Jeff Morris wrote:
This day its was even sweeter than normal because we were along up this little cove,
while
300 boats were anchored out - It was a NY Yacht Club Rendezvous on the same day JFK
Jr's
plane went down, so many didn't go over to the Vineyard. Here's a pic from our boat:

http://www.sv-loki.com/Along_the_Way/Hadley.jpg

Whew, what a crowd. How many boats ran agound trying to come in near you?


Three or four boats started to come in, then backed out slowly. There's about 5-6 feet
right in the middle, but with no room to swing. I think when they saw my second anchor
sitting on a mud flat they got the hint. With a 3 foot draft we had about 50 feet to
swing around - just enough.


Thanks for the further info. I dunno about "negative scope" but it sounds like your
friend is
seriously into ground tackle. I'm a little surprised that he was willing to trust an
experimental anchor though.

The ground tackle was one set of gear that they kept when they upgraded to a larger boat.
They had a lot of faith, based on probably haveing anchored with them several hundred to a
thousand times already. By now, I'd guess they've anchored maybe 5000 nights somewhere on
the East Coast. They are the ones that started me thinking about "lighter is better" -
they still don't have a power windlass.

....

I am thinking seriously about replacing our plow with a spade, but I also want to put a
bruce
anchor on there. We need a double bow roller to replace the current single, also we
*really*
need a windlass.

I've also considered the Spade. And I love my power windlass - with it we end up in the
best spot, not the first spot.


--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
If you can't say something nice, say something surrealistic. -Zippy