"Dave Mayall" wrote in message
ine.co.uk...
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:53:16 +0000, Nick Smeltzer
wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the following changes
in the uk.* Usenet hierarchy:

rename unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.boats.power to uk.rec.boats.motor

Newsgroup line:
uk.boats.motor All aspects of motor boating in the UK


*** ALL DISCUSSION MUST TAKE PLACE IN UK.NET.NEWS.CONFIG ***
*** CROSSPOSTED TO UK.REC.BOATS.POWER ***

This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.
Further procedural details are given below.

RATIONALE: uk.boats.motor

Prior to 1998 there were no newsgroups covering powered boats in the UK.
Sailing was covered by uk.rec.sailing, whilst uk.rec.waterways dealt
with waterways in general. Motor cruisers, sports boats, speed boats and
in fact any powered craft were not covered by any UK newsgroup. As a
result, uk.rec.boats.power was created in August 1998.

However, since it's creation the number of posts has been rather small
compared with uk.rec.sailing, especially considering the approximate
50-50 split between power and sail in the UK. Comments by regular and
new participants indicate that the name was a poor choice - power seems
to imply racing or high performance craft. "Motor" is more of a generic
term which would attract the users that were the intended audience of
uk.rec.boats.power in the first instance. Hence the request to rename
uk.rec.boats.power to uk.rec.boats.motor

You talk about attracting the intended audience.

That seems entirely backwards to me. Is there a subset of motor
boaters who feel they don't have a group to post to? What sort of
motor boats are we talking here?

As an owner of a motor boat (specifically a canal narrowboat), I
certainly don't feel a need for a group, and indeed would oppose such
a move on the basis that it might detract from uk.rec.waterways.

Why was this RFD not crossposted to uk.rec.waterways?

--
Dave Mayall

I am also a canal boat owners, and we are very, very lucky in the way
uk.rec.waterways supports us and all the other boaters who pop in to ask
questions etc.

However when I started getting into newsgroups (I have been professionally
involved in river boating since the 1970s) I ignotre uk.rec.boats.power
because the name certainly gave me the impression that the group was into
Power Boats - which is not my scene or interest.

It was many months ago that I raised this on the group & I thought it had
died the death.

I think it is a simple "tidying up" exersize, we have a group for sailing,
we have a group who's name makes it clear is intended for everything to do
with inland boating and waterways, we have a group who's name indicates it
is interested in kidies boats (but actually is about canoing), and we have a
group that has a name that has evidently put a number of people off looking
at it.

I am sure this was never intentional, but it appears to have happened.

I do not see any "downside" to the proposal and it might even produce more
interest over time if acted upon. If traffic indicates a need fopr a Power
Boat group in time, so be it.

Tony Brooks, who will continue to monitor Sailing, Power, and Waterways -
whatever they are called.

In . co.uk Dave Mayall writes:

As an owner of a motor boat (specifically a canal narrowboat), I
certainly don't feel a need for a group, and indeed would oppose such
a move on the basis that it might detract from uk.rec.waterways.

Why was this RFD not crossposted to uk.rec.waterways?

Since the remit of the proposed uk.rec.boats.motor is broadly the same as
for the present uk.rec.boats.power, then in principle its effect on
uk.rec.waterways should be minimal.

In practice, I grant you that a more active motor boat group would have
some effect on u.r.w, and many topics might be acceptable on both. But it
is clear that much and even most usage of motor boats takes place on open
waters.

--
Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------
Tel: +44 161 436 6131 Fax: +44 161 436 6133 Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl
Email: Snail: 5 Clerewood Ave, CHEADLE, SK8 3JU, U.K.
PGP: 2C15F1A9 Fingerprint: 73 6D C2 51 93 A0 01 E7 65 E8 64 7E 14 A4 AB A5

"Charles Lindsey" wrote in message
...
In . co.uk Dave Mayall
writes:

As an owner of a motor boat (specifically a canal narrowboat), I
certainly don't feel a need for a group, and indeed would oppose such
a move on the basis that it might detract from uk.rec.waterways.

Why was this RFD not crossposted to uk.rec.waterways?

Since the remit of the proposed uk.rec.boats.motor is broadly the same as
for the present uk.rec.boats.power, then in principle its effect on
uk.rec.waterways should be minimal.

Utter tosh.

The whole aim of this RFD is to modify the name so as to encourage those who
would use urw to talk about their boats to use this group instead.

In practice, I grant you that a more active motor boat group would have
some effect on u.r.w, and many topics might be acceptable on both. But it
is clear that much and even most usage of motor boats takes place on open
waters.

No it isn't.

It is abundantly clear that the vast majority of people who talk about their
motor boats on-line are users of the inland waterways.

"Nick Smeltzer" wrote in message
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the following
changes
in the uk.* Usenet hierarchy:

rename unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.boats.power to
uk.rec.boats.motor

Newsgroup line:
uk.boats.motor All aspects of motor boating in the UK


*** ALL DISCUSSION MUST TAKE PLACE IN UK.NET.NEWS.CONFIG ***
*** CROSSPOSTED TO UK.REC.BOATS.POWER ***

This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.
Further procedural details are given below.

RATIONALE: uk.boats.motor

Prior to 1998 there were no newsgroups covering powered boats in the
UK.
Sailing was covered by uk.rec.sailing, whilst uk.rec.waterways dealt
with waterways in general. Motor cruisers, sports boats, speed boats
and
in fact any powered craft were not covered by any UK newsgroup. As a
result, uk.rec.boats.power was created in August 1998.

However, since it's creation the number of posts has been rather small
compared with uk.rec.sailing, especially considering the approximate
50-50 split between power and sail in the UK. Comments by regular and
new participants indicate that the name was a poor choice - power
seems
to imply racing or high performance craft. "Motor" is more of a
generic
term which would attract the users that were the intended audience of
uk.rec.boats.power in the first instance. Hence the request to rename
uk.rec.boats.power to uk.rec.boats.motor

PROPOSAL (to be activated in two stages)

1. Create a new unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.boats.motor with the
following charter

CHARTER: uk.boats.motor

uk.rec.boats.motor will discuss motor boating in UK waters and the
activities of UK motor boaters elsewhere. Motor boat sports (eg racing
and water skiing) are valid topics except where covered by a more
specific group.

Advertising

Advertising is forbidden, with these exceptions:

Suppliers of goods and services relevant to Motor Boats in the UK may
post an invitation to visit their web site or request details. It
should
be of four lines or fewer and not posted more than once every 3
months.
The subject line should begin "ADVERT: ". Private adverts are welcome
but must not exceed one post per subject or user per week.

Binaries & Formatting

Encoded binaries (e.g. pictures, compressed files, etc.) are
forbidden.
Such material belongs on a web or FTP site to which a pointer may be
posted. Cryptographic signatures (e.g. PGP) may be used where
authentication is important and should be as short as possible.

Posts must be readable as plain text. HTML, RTF and similarly
formatted
messages are prohibited. To see how to make some common newsreaders
comply with this, read http://www.usenet.org.uk/ukpost.html.

END CHARTER

2. Remove existing unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.boats.power, this to
be
delayed at the discretion of Control until the bulk of discussion
has
moved to the new group.

PROCEDU

This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of
the process, any potential problems with the proposal should be raised
and resolved. The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 10
days, starting from when this RFD is posted to uk.net.news.announce
(i.e. until December 22nd) after which a Call For Votes (CFV) may be
posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants it.
Alternatively, the proposal may proceed by the fast-track method.
Please
do not attempt to vote until this happens.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the "Guidelines for Group
Creation
within the UK Hierarchy" as published regularly in
uk.net.news.announce.
Please refer to this document if you have any questions about the
process.

DISTRIBUTION:

This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:
uk.net.news.announce
uk.net.news.config
uk.rec.boats.power

Proponent:
Nick Smeltzer


I'm not a boater, but occassionally I visit some boating group to ask a
question.

I thought uk.rec.boats.power was only for people who raced boats, as in
power-boat racing. So, from my point of view, I think a change would be
beneficial.

In article , Richard
wrote:

"Nick Smeltzer" wrote in message
...

rename unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.boats.power to
uk.rec.boats.motor

Newsgroup line:
uk.boats.motor All aspects of motor boating in the UK

I thought uk.rec.boats.power was only for people who raced boats, as in
power-boat racing. So, from my point of view, I think a change would be
beneficial.

Imo 'Power' implies a motive force other than muscles or nature. In other
words some sort of motor. The speed generated is immaterial.

So while I see no need for a change I won't object - but it feels like
pointless meddling.

Cheerio,

--

Fine idea, it makes the group sound more broad based 'power' suggests racing
etc. where as 'motor' could cover every aspect of powered boating, if anyone
wanted a specific boat racing site then they could set one up. Anything that
attracts more posts is a good idea.

My two penneth !

Cheers Martin
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the following changes
in the uk.* Usenet hierarchy:

rename unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.boats.power to uk.rec.boats.motor

Newsgroup line:
uk.boats.motor All aspects of motor boating in the UK


*** ALL DISCUSSION MUST TAKE PLACE IN UK.NET.NEWS.CONFIG ***
*** CROSSPOSTED TO UK.REC.BOATS.POWER ***

This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.
Further procedural details are given below.

RATIONALE: uk.boats.motor

Prior to 1998 there were no newsgroups covering powered boats in the UK.
Sailing was covered by uk.rec.sailing, whilst uk.rec.waterways dealt
with waterways in general. Motor cruisers, sports boats, speed boats and
in fact any powered craft were not covered by any UK newsgroup. As a
result, uk.rec.boats.power was created in August 1998.

However, since it's creation the number of posts has been rather small
compared with uk.rec.sailing, especially considering the approximate
50-50 split between power and sail in the UK. Comments by regular and
new participants indicate that the name was a poor choice - power seems
to imply racing or high performance craft. "Motor" is more of a generic
term which would attract the users that were the intended audience of
uk.rec.boats.power in the first instance. Hence the request to rename
uk.rec.boats.power to uk.rec.boats.motor

PROPOSAL (to be activated in two stages)

1. Create a new unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.boats.motor with the
following charter

CHARTER: uk.boats.motor

uk.rec.boats.motor will discuss motor boating in UK waters and the
activities of UK motor boaters elsewhere. Motor boat sports (eg racing
and water skiing) are valid topics except where covered by a more
specific group.

Advertising

Advertising is forbidden, with these exceptions:

Suppliers of goods and services relevant to Motor Boats in the UK may
post an invitation to visit their web site or request details. It should
be of four lines or fewer and not posted more than once every 3 months.
The subject line should begin "ADVERT: ". Private adverts are welcome
but must not exceed one post per subject or user per week.

Binaries & Formatting

Encoded binaries (e.g. pictures, compressed files, etc.) are forbidden.
Such material belongs on a web or FTP site to which a pointer may be
posted. Cryptographic signatures (e.g. PGP) may be used where
authentication is important and should be as short as possible.

Posts must be readable as plain text. HTML, RTF and similarly formatted
messages are prohibited. To see how to make some common newsreaders
comply with this, read http://www.usenet.org.uk/ukpost.html.

END CHARTER

2. Remove existing unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.boats.power, this to be
delayed at the discretion of Control until the bulk of discussion has
moved to the new group.

PROCEDU

This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase of
the process, any potential problems with the proposal should be raised
and resolved. The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 10
days, starting from when this RFD is posted to uk.net.news.announce
(i.e. until December 22nd) after which a Call For Votes (CFV) may be
posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants it.
Alternatively, the proposal may proceed by the fast-track method. Please
do not attempt to vote until this happens.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the "Guidelines for Group Creation
within the UK Hierarchy" as published regularly in uk.net.news.announce.
Please refer to this document if you have any questions about the process.

DISTRIBUTION:

This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:
uk.net.news.announce
uk.net.news.config
uk.rec.boats.power

Proponent:
Nick Smeltzer

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----