On 2 Feb 2005 08:13:57 -0800, "ChipsCheeseandMayo"
wrote:

Hi there,

I am involved in teaching to people to kayak, and inevitably sometimes
they fall in. Before anyone gets too horrifed - yes, I can rescue
someone but I need to use them to help empty the kayak.

My problem is I am physically quite weak, quite short and quite light.
(5'3" and about 9stone)

I find it generally impossible to empty a kayak unaided (the "victim"
helps as I am instructing solo). To elaborate - I drag the capsized
kayak over my own (usually we use Pyranha Masters which are quite
large) I get it so that the cockpit is over my cockpit. I lean out as
far as I can to try and use my weight to see-saw the kayak. It is at
this point I fail dismally. I am entirely incapable of getting the
water logged end of the boat (the rear end usually with twin air bags)
out of the water so that I can drain water out.

I teach mostly kids between ages 10 and 18, we do odd sessions with
younger groups. At some point we have to do rescue with them all.

There is absolutely no problem with using the victim to help empty the
boat. In fact if they are not panicking it gives them something to
keep their mind off the cold. If you can get the capsized boat our of
the water and onto your deck, then use the victim to assist. You can't
afford to waste time pratting about trying to be Mr Universe.

If you have problems getting some paddlers in. We have one lad who
weighs in at about 16 stone and he's only 14! Ask yourself what the
aim is. Is it to pass an assessment? If so you need to get him in on
your own, one way or another. If it is for real, the aim is to get him
back in the boat regardless of style.

You would nornmally have advised your party to raft up in the event of
a capsize - one presumes. Those in the raft are relatively safe and
secure. So, you could either ask the better of the group to come and
hold the opposite side of the boat steady whilst your victim clambers
in. Or, you could use the end body on the raft as support for the
other side of the boat. His own boat secured by the next person in the
raft.

I've had three 3 star paddlers involved in rescuing this big lad. he
has sunk two instructors and flooded his own boat in rescues, so if in
that situation you need to find a way that works for you - even if it
isn't textbook.

Ewan Scott

"I've had three 3 star paddlers involved in rescuing this big lad. he
has sunk two instructors and flooded his own boat in rescues, so if in
that situation you need to find a way that works for you - even if it
isn't textbook. "

Thats the sort of situation I am worried about - any ideas for
unorthodox methods?

For waht its worth the others don't raft up if there is a capsize
a) beyond their abilities
b) they would really catch the wind and be miles away by the time
rescue completed.

First of all the rant! Your employer is being un reasonable in what they
appear to be blackmailing you into! Get out and work for someone decent!

Now the paddling. No shame in struggling to empty a master. They are big
and have very little bouyancy if not airbagged, and I get my 'victim' to do
as much of the work as possible. I am 6ft tall and 17 stone, btw.

My usual rescue technique is to park their boat alongside mine, bow to
stern, they come oaround to the outside of their boat, and then climb up
over their boat to end up lying across the two boats before sliding legs
into their boat and getting themselves seated. They can use the cockpit
rims as hand holds, kicking with their legs helps, and as a last resort i
can reach over them, grab the back of their BA and pull them up. Usually
all I have to do is lie across their boat to steady them. If they can get
hold of my cockpit then rotating the boat will pull them up too.

This is easily converted to the strop rescue, by laying the strop over the
boats and securing it with the victims paddle, or by feeding it back through
itself.

I would always raft up the rest of the group. Might take a while, and even
be beyond some of them, but they will all be trying to stay together!! YOu
will drift with them to a greater or lesser extent, and even if you get a
bit away from them, it is better that they are all more or less together!

If you really can't get victim back into the boat, then you can use the raft
to help you as described by other posters.

Try and get some tips from your employer, it might just be that they don't
understand your concerns, and if asked will provide advice, but i'm not
convinced!

Get along to one of the coach updates, I did one on manual handling and
rescues, and found it very useful. Also if you have access t pool
sessions, you can spen an entertaining hour trying out all sort of weird and
wonderful rescue ideas in the comfort of the pool, and not at your wits end.

Good Luck

MW
"ChipsCheeseandMayo" wrote in message
oups.com...
"I've had three 3 star paddlers involved in rescuing this big lad. he
has sunk two instructors and flooded his own boat in rescues, so if in
that situation you need to find a way that works for you - even if it
isn't textbook. "

Thats the sort of situation I am worried about - any ideas for
unorthodox methods?

For waht its worth the others don't raft up if there is a capsize
a) beyond their abilities
b) they would really catch the wind and be miles away by the time
rescue completed.

" The Strop Rescue"

I assume this means using a sling. I thought you put the sling over the
capsizees boat and hooked it over their paddle which you have rotated
so it is under both boats (I have never done this btw, just theory). So
how does it work putting it over both boats?

On 3 Feb 2005 05:47:01 -0800, "ChipsCheeseandMayo"
wrote:

"I've had three 3 star paddlers involved in rescuing this big lad. he
has sunk two instructors and flooded his own boat in rescues, so if in
that situation you need to find a way that works for you - even if it
isn't textbook. "

Thats the sort of situation I am worried about - any ideas for
unorthodox methods?

For waht its worth the others don't raft up if there is a capsize
a) beyond their abilities

No it's not. Even complete novices can get the message on rafting up.

When you get them on the water this is the procedure.

1/ you get on the water first.
You assist each other paddler getting onto the water. As they second
paddler gets on he gets told to join up with the first. That way right
at the outset you have your group under control so that you can
demonstrate and tell them what you expect them to do. They have, into
the bargain, discovered how tor aft up.

2/Before moving off you advise them that if there is any capsize, that
you will deal with it, and they should raft up. Alternately in near
the shore, get ashore. (But there are issues here too)

b) they would really catch the wind and be miles away by the time
rescue completed.

They would at least be together. Leave them scattered and they could
be spread across acres of water by the time you have struggled with
your rescue.

There are three issues here. One is your group control, another is
your rand the third is yopur emergency procedure.

If you can deal with the former, the remainder become less of an
issue. something you said in another post concerns me.

You question your ability...

I guess I am unsure as to whether I actually am Lvl 2 Kayak coach
standard - surely if I was I wouldn't be worrying like this....

Are you or are you not? Did you do the training, did you do the hours,
did you do the assessment? If so, then you are, and it is the duty of
every coach to improve their skills, this is just part of improving
those skills.

One thing that I see a lot of is lack of Group Control. The rescue
staff at the local wter park see lots of it too. When you get people
out on the water the only way to stay safe is to retain group control.
You need to call them in to order, make sure they are buddied up at
least, but certainly don't let them wander off. If you have group
control they will do what you ask them in an emergency. if you don't,
then they could be anywhere because they don't know what to do if
things go pearshaped.

I just noticed the female bit. I'm afraid it doesn't wash. Emptying
the boat is a question of style rather than muscle. I've got 13 year
old lasses doing eskimo rescues amd putting me back in my boat. Sorry
if this sounds arrogant, but you need to look at your style and how
you tackle the job. Here's a suggestion that might be way, way off
beam. If so I apologise.

Did you do your training in a macho male environment? If you did you
may have seen muscular lads hauling boats across their decks without
thinking twice about how they did it. They would just teach you to do
the same instead of developing a technique that helps you do the job
without using every muscle in your body.

I've seen men teaching and there can be a macho thing about muscles
and power. I've seen women teach and usually they show more finesse,
more technique.

Ewan Scott