On 4 Feb 2005 04:00:38 -0800, "ChipsCheeseandMayo"
wrote:

Wow - lots of answers overnight and lots of questions

Ewan - thats a great tip about getting them to raft up as they got on -
I will definetly give it a try. I still have a concern about rafting up
- it can be pretty windy in in a raft they could get a long way
downwind during the duration of a rescue. At least if they are milling
around they can paddle to stay in the general area. But then I suppose
if a couple more capsize then I am screwed. So yes, I will try getting
them to raft up in case of capsize. I guess maybe pick out a couple of
more able novices to be my "deputies"

If they don't raft up they will mill about. I'd suggest you try it in
a controlled set of circumstances where your safety boats do not get
involved but just monitor the situation. Whilst you struggle to carry
out a rescue you'r eye is off the ball. By the time you have finished
I'll warrant your milling about is all over the shop.

If you raft them up, yes they will drift, but they will be together,
and you will drift at almost the same rate as them.

I did the training, the hours and passed the assessment. The training
was internal, the hours were internal and the asessment was
semi-internal. I felt qualified for what I was doing at that centre
i.e. teaching on ponds or on a loch but with 2 other back up
instructors. I had never coached on my own prior to my current
centre. I guess I question my qualification because well lets just say
- my SPA training with same employer was signed off after one day (its
meant to be 2 days min)..

I'd guess that your centre is at fault. If anything goes pear-shaped
you are in deep ****. You are on the water, you are in charge. If you
are unhappy about the situation you are putting your own life and that
of others at risk. That is not right. You have a duty of care. Taking
8 kids out on your own with no failsafe is really risky. I usually
work with my wife and we can take 16, but we usually only take 12. if
anything goes wrong one of us is able to go for help. if I were on my
own I'd be screwed.

Ask yourself this, if I lose someone (God forbid) what will the
coronor say when I tell him I was on my own with no back up? How will
the Procurator Fiscal view the situation? And how will the High Court
view your case when the parents/partner of the victim sue for damages
- an njury has happened, there has been a failing on the centre's
part, probably on yours, and there may well be a link between the two.
In which case you are completely stuck.

I know that's a worst case scenario, but if you are earning a living
from this, or even if you just enjoy it, that is what you have to have
at the back of your mind. I'm sure that you are an able paddler and
probably a capable teacher but that doesn't mean you should allow your
centre to force you to cut corners. (I'll not comment on the SPA
signing off)

I can do eskimo rescues no prob - unfortunately that is not in option
for me. They are paddling boats with no decks so they just fall out.
Perceptive comment though - paddling wherever I have done it I am
usually the only girlie. The only method I have ever seen of emptying
boats is of bloke effortlessly dragging boat over their own and
emptying - sometimes they would even empty it held over their heads

Macho pratts. If they were actually any good as coaches they would
teach the best practice. Showing off is about the worst practice in my
book.

This is the method I was taught and the method I thought was right. I
was vaguely aware that you may occasionally get the victim to assist -
it never really struck me as being an OK thing to do - I always saw it
as a failure and an inadequacy on the instructors part - boy have you
guys changed my mind!

Glad we have helped with that at least. For an assessment you can
instruct your victim in how to help. In real life situations getting
them back in the boat is a success, anything else is a failure, how
you do it doesn't matter. Your measure of success is how short a time
they spend in the water.

There is a sheltered(ish) area to this Loch but we tend not use it as
it tends to be older kids we take to the loch and they get really bored
in this small bay - we like to paddle them up the Loch a bit so they
feel they are really kayaking - which makes it hard to stop and play
games because I really dont want them to fall in (three hour session)

Right, if they get bored it suggests an attitude problem. here's how I
sort it out.

We get in, they raft up as we get in, (if they are beginners). Then we
tell them they are going to paddle to a given point. We buddy them up
and herd them to the area we intend using. One of us whips in the
stragglers. the other stays with the main group.

When we get there, if there is any crap about it being boring we make
them capsize. In fact, with beginners we make them capsize first, if
they can do it we stick a spray deck on and make them do it again.
Then they paddle with a deck on.

We play games such as Sharks and Minnows (Bulldog on the water), they
love it. Lots of contact, lots of splashing and they get a real grasp
of the feel of the boat. (Mind you, you do need a second able paddler
as a safety boat.


Peter, I may not have painted my current employer in a particularly
nice light but generally they are fine. Im a lot more impressed with
their ethos and safety procedures than at my previous centre.

snip

The problem is we dont have enough boats or trailer space to take a
group of 16 hence they cant justify another instructor.

Believe me they will wish they had justified another instructor if
something goes wrong.

You guys are
really helping me out though. I have never seen a coaching viewpoint
other than at my previous centre. Maybe I need to go on a coaching
processes course to open my eyes a bit...

You need to work with other coaches. You need to work with different
abilities.

Listen; I've got kids we coach that we have known for years. We think
that they uinderstand us and get on with us. If i bring in another
instructor they ALWAYS learn something new from them that they haven't
from me. The thing is I learn too - sometimes it is how not to deal
with a situation too.

Ewan Scott