Hi

"Michael Daly" wrote:
If it has a lot of rocker, I didn't notice it in paddling. That kayak
is very tippy and very unresponsive.

I got the numbers from the SK review:
Length: 5.26m
Waterline length with 68kg paddler: 4.19m

That's one rockered boat.

[...]
The Andromeda is one of the lamest Kayaks I've ever paddled.
Puts the SK reviews in a different perspective...

--
Peter Unold- http://www.unold.dk/paddling

Peter Unold wrote in
:

Hey

John Fereira wrote:
At a symposium last year a few people were talking about the Andromeda
and someone said that even Current Designs admits the Andromeda was a
mistake.

I'm curious. Could you give us some details on the problems with the
Andromeda?

I've never paddled one. I'm just reporting what I heard others say about it.

I've noticed that the boat has an exceptional large amount
of rocker. Perhaps that's what Hutchinson considers a romantic boat.

Hard to say. My take on the answer below is that his romance analogy was
more in reference to how a boat looked (i.e. whether it had sexy lines) and
really nothing to do with how much rocker it had.

Paddler - Jan/Feb 2002:

Paddler: What's the best new technological innovation in the sport?

Hutchinson: There haven't really been any in the last ten years. It's
a shame about boat designs, though. A lot of the new boats are
functional - they'll all float - but they look like a bucket of
squashed frogs. It seems the designers have no romance in their soul
at all.

John Fereira wrote in message ...
"Michael Daly" wrote in
:


The Explorer is everything _except_ a fast kayak. One of the best all-
round kayaks out there. Check out the Boreal Designs Ellemere as well
if you like the Explorer.

I've heard many compare the Ellsemere to the Caribou too. It has an
aggressively molded seat so if it fits the shape of your butt it's going to
be real comfortable.
I found a dealer in Plymouth, MA who has Ellsemere and Surge Marine.
His demo spot is on a large inland lake. Patriots's Day in MA there
were up to 40 mi/hr gusts and strong chop on the lake. I asked the
dealer which boat was more stable and when he replied Surge decided to
demo it even though I had come down for the Ellesmere. The dock and
lake were roiling and I had not a little fear in my heart when I
pulled away. The Surge knifed through the chop nicely and didn't seem
to mind the wind. I wasn't brave enough to try edging under the
conditions and after less than 15 backed it into the dock and was
happy to be off the water. While I announced to my host that I didn't
think I was up for any more demoing today he suggested I at least sit
in the Ellesmere. That was enough for me, unless I was interested in
strong prostate stimulation along with my paddling, I did not like
that seat with the raised prostate bumb in the middle. What were those
Quebec folks thinking? Speaking of seats, the next day I spent an hour
in a WS Tempest 170 pro. More tractable conditions up to 20 Mi /hr
gusts and some current on the Charles river. I found the seat and
outfitting to be most impressive and comfortable. the boat however was
more affected by wind than I would have liked and I found myself
employing the skeg a lot going downwind and even needed it going
upwind occassionally. Stability seemed excellent . Well I won't buy a
boat just because I like the seat, but I won't buy a boat either which
has a seat I hate. I'm thinking now that maybe I'd be better off
spending all this time demoing other boats on paddling my own boat and
trying to improve my skills. After all how can you appreciate what a
performance boat has to offer if you're not willing to push it. thanks
to all who have responded. I value your opinions.----Cheers Gene
So where I sit now it's either the Caribou S, a smaller
Gulfstream if that exists

Slipstream - but that may be tippy for someone your size. There's also
an Andromeda, but I found that to be a dreadful kayak.

At a symposium last year a few people were talking about the Andromeda and
someone said that even Current Designs admits the Andromeda was a mistake.

Try the Skerray - I find it roughly similar to a Gulfstream based on a
short paddle. John F. will no doubt be able to point out the differences
much better than I. However, I think the Skerray is worth checking out
if you like the Gulfstream.

Doh! Why didn't I think of the Skerray? Perhaps because mine has a Ocean
cockpit that I knew he wouldn't like. The Skerray likely would be a good
one to try. It's got real nice initial stability, is very responsive but a
bit faster than a Romany or Avocet. I've had mine for 6 years or so and
have since built two higher performance boats. Every once in awhile I think
about selling the Skerray but then I get in an paddle it and get reminded
how much fun that boat is to paddle.

On 24-Apr-2004, (Gene Cosloy) wrote:

Ellesmere. That was enough for me, unless I was interested in
strong prostate stimulation along with my paddling, I did not like
that seat with the raised prostate bumb in the middle. What were those
Quebec folks thinking?

For me, it's the most comfortable seat I've ever sat in.

Sounds like you're too big for the seat. Either that or you're pushing
your hips forward. Remember that proper paddling posture means that
you spine is relatively straight and your shoulders are above or barely
forward of your hips. No slouching and no leaning against the backrest.

A friend of mine ordered an Ellesmere with a bumpless seat. Boreal Designs
simply filled the mold at the front and made a seat that has the curves
everywhere but with the bump flattened out.

Mike

(Gene Cosloy) wrote in
m:

John Fereira wrote in message
...
"Michael Daly" wrote in
:


The Explorer is everything _except_ a fast kayak. One of the best
all- round kayaks out there. Check out the Boreal Designs Ellemere
as well if you like the Explorer.

I've heard many compare the Ellsemere to the Caribou too. It has an
aggressively molded seat so if it fits the shape of your butt it's
going to be real comfortable.
I found a dealer in Plymouth, MA who has Ellsemere and Surge Marine.
His demo spot is on a large inland lake. Patriots's Day in MA there
were up to 40 mi/hr gusts and strong chop on the lake. I asked the
dealer which boat was more stable and when he replied Surge decided to
demo it even though I had come down for the Ellesmere. The dock and
lake were roiling and I had not a little fear in my heart when I
pulled away. The Surge knifed through the chop nicely and didn't seem
to mind the wind. I wasn't brave enough to try edging under the
conditions and after less than 15 backed it into the dock and was
happy to be off the water. While I announced to my host that I didn't
think I was up for any more demoing today he suggested I at least sit
in the Ellesmere. That was enough for me, unless I was interested in
strong prostate stimulation along with my paddling, I did not like
that seat with the raised prostate bumb in the middle. What were those
Quebec folks thinking?

As I said, some people like it, some people don't. The seat in the
Ellsemere is certainly different from any other boat I've seen.

Speaking of seats, the next day I spent an hour
in a WS Tempest 170 pro.

I've heard very good things about the seats in the new Necky boats and I've
always been a fan of the Looksha IV and definitely want to give their new
Chathams a try.

Well I won't buy a
boat just because I like the seat, but I won't buy a boat either which
has a seat I hate.

At least in the latter case, if you don't like the seat it's not that
difficult to modify it or remove it entirely and replace it was a carved
closed cell foam seat (what I've got in all of my boats). That's one of the
reasons I've always liked the seats in the Seaward boats. They're *very*
basic, which makes them easier to modify or replace with closed cell foam.

I'm thinking now that maybe I'd be better off
spending all this time demoing other boats on paddling my own boat and
trying to improve my skills. After all how can you appreciate what a
performance boat has to offer if you're not willing to push it.

Perhaps an intermediate/advanced lesson makes sense or head up to the Kayak
symposium in Castine, Maine this summer where you can take an advance lesson
*and* demo more boats than you could paddle in a weekend. If you did
something like that you'd have a very good idea what you'd want for next
year.

John Fereira wrote in message ...
(Gene Cosloy) wrote in
m:

John Fereira wrote in message
...
"Michael Daly" wrote in
:


The Explorer is everything _except_ a fast kayak. One of the best
all- round kayaks out there. Check out the Boreal Designs Ellemere
as well if you like the Explorer.

I've heard many compare the Ellsemere to the Caribou too. It has an
aggressively molded seat so if it fits the shape of your butt it's
going to be real comfortable.
I found a dealer in Plymouth, MA who has Ellsemere and Surge Marine.
His demo spot is on a large inland lake. Patriots's Day in MA there
were up to 40 mi/hr gusts and strong chop on the lake. I asked the
dealer which boat was more stable and when he replied Surge decided to
demo it even though I had come down for the Ellesmere. The dock and
lake were roiling and I had not a little fear in my heart when I
pulled away. The Surge knifed through the chop nicely and didn't seem
to mind the wind. I wasn't brave enough to try edging under the
conditions and after less than 15 backed it into the dock and was
happy to be off the water. While I announced to my host that I didn't
think I was up for any more demoing today he suggested I at least sit
in the Ellesmere. That was enough for me, unless I was interested in
strong prostate stimulation along with my paddling, I did not like
that seat with the raised prostate bumb in the middle. What were those
Quebec folks thinking?

As I said, some people like it, some people don't. The seat in the
Ellsemere is certainly different from any other boat I've seen.

Speaking of seats, the next day I spent an hour
in a WS Tempest 170 pro.

I've heard very good things about the seats in the new Necky boats and I've
always been a fan of the Looksha IV and definitely want to give their new
Chathams a try.

Well I won't buy a
boat just because I like the seat, but I won't buy a boat either which
has a seat I hate.

At least in the latter case, if you don't like the seat it's not that
difficult to modify it or remove it entirely and replace it was a carved
closed cell foam seat (what I've got in all of my boats). That's one of the
reasons I've always liked the seats in the Seaward boats. They're *very*
basic, which makes them easier to modify or replace with closed cell foam.

I'm thinking now that maybe I'd be better off
spending all this time demoing other boats on paddling my own boat and
trying to improve my skills. After all how can you appreciate what a
performance boat has to offer if you're not willing to push it.

Perhaps an intermediate/advanced lesson makes sense or head up to the Kayak
symposium in Castine, Maine this summer where you can take an advance lesson
*and* demo more boats than you could paddle in a weekend. If you did
something like that you'd have a very good idea what you'd want for next
year.
Sounds like a good plan, unfortunately almost all the symposiums and
demo days being scheduled are for the 99% of the population that has
the weekends free. My free days are Mon. & tues. For that reason I'm
really grateful that Charles River Canoe & Kayak will let you demo any
day. the downside is it's on the Charles river, so without a dood deal
of bluster and chop you really can't get a sense of how the boat will
perform in salt water. I've come down now to two boats that i could be
very happy with: the Tempest 170Pro and the P&H Quest. Anyone have any
thoughts or comments about the Quest. I thought it was lively i.e.
moderate primary, easy to edge but stable as you approached putting
the cockpit in the water, quite fast, no tendency to weather cock,
terrific cockpit for me, plenty of room for size 12 feet, and not
exactly a boat that turns sharply. I'd like to know if others have
tried it particularly in salt water. It seemed similar to the NDK
Explorer?

Gene

Yeah, the Ellesmere seat was a killer for me as well. So, I yanked it out
and essentially duplicated the seat in minicell foam leaving the hump only
way forward. Now, it's very comfortable and I really enjoy the boat.



"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 24-Apr-2004, (Gene Cosloy) wrote:

Ellesmere. That was enough for me, unless I was interested in
strong prostate stimulation along with my paddling, I did not like
that seat with the raised prostate bumb in the middle. What were those
Quebec folks thinking?

For me, it's the most comfortable seat I've ever sat in.

Sounds like you're too big for the seat. Either that or you're pushing
your hips forward. Remember that proper paddling posture means that
you spine is relatively straight and your shoulders are above or barely
forward of your hips. No slouching and no leaning against the backrest.

A friend of mine ordered an Ellesmere with a bumpless seat. Boreal
Designs
simply filled the mold at the front and made a seat that has the curves
everywhere but with the bump flattened out.

Mike

"news" wrote in
:

Yeah, the Ellesmere seat was a killer for me as well. So, I yanked it
out and essentially duplicated the seat in minicell foam leaving the
hump only way forward. Now, it's very comfortable and I really enjoy
the boat.

Interesting idea. I've seen a couple of articles around on how to build a
fiberglass seat (Ross Liedy's site had a good description). One could make
a mould from the original seat, modify it slightly so that it doesn't have
that bump, and then lay up a new seat.

One of the articles I read described creating the mold for a seat by sitting
in a box of sand covered with thin plastic. That way you can create a seat
that fits your body perfectly.

"John Fereira" wrote...

Yeah, the Ellesmere seat was a killer for me as well. So, I yanked it
out and essentially duplicated the seat in minicell foam

Interesting idea. I've seen a couple of articles around on how to build a
fiberglass seat (Ross Liedy's site had a good description). One could
make
a mould from the original seat, modify it slightly so that it doesn't have
that bump, and then lay up a new seat.

One of the articles I read described creating the mold for a seat by
sitting
in a box of sand covered with thin plastic. That way you can create a
seat
that fits your body perfectly.

A Thermarest pad works just fine for me! Relatively inexpensive,
adjustable, and low in the hull! A couple squares of Velcro hold it in...

"John R Weiss" wrote in
news:9u9mc.28325$IG1.1221001@attbi_s04:

"John Fereira" wrote...

Yeah, the Ellesmere seat was a killer for me as well. So, I yanked
it out and essentially duplicated the seat in minicell foam

Interesting idea. I've seen a couple of articles around on how to
build a fiberglass seat (Ross Liedy's site had a good description).
One could make a mould from the original seat, modify it slightly so
that it doesn't have that bump, and then lay up a new seat.

One of the articles I read described creating the mold for a seat by
sitting in a box of sand covered with thin plastic. That way you can
create a seat that fits your body perfectly.

A Thermarest pad works just fine for me! Relatively inexpensive,
adjustable, and low in the hull! A couple squares of Velcro hold it
in...

A thermarest pad provides no back, thigh, or hip support. If you want good
body to boat contact (which you would if you want good control) you're still
going to need some kind of back band and padded cheek plates. In some
cases, a thermarest might be *too* low in the hull, giving too much initial
stability. I once paddled a Guillemot that was not quite finished that was
outfitted with only a thin sleeping pad. I practically had to come out the
seat to get the boat on edge and the Guillemot is only 20" wide.