I'm relatively new to kayaks. I have done mosly fla****er paddles of
at most 10 miles. I own a very light 28lb Kevlar Lincoln Chebegue
Kayak which is comfortable but not as responsive as I'd like. I'm
looking for a good tracker which, with minimum knee hanging effort
will get up on it's side and turn quickly. At the same time it
shoudn't be overly twitchy and have great secondary stability.
Moderate cockpit for a 5'10" 175 lb paddler and 16' with a skeg.
Eventually when my skills improve I intend to venture into coastal
waters . To those who have been at this longer with more experience I
ask which kayaks should I be looking at?

Thanks,
Gene

Since you're already familiar with Lincoln products, I suggest that you
check out the Isle Au Haut. It's a very nice, very seaworthy boat. It's
longer than your specified limit, but unless there's a specific need to
keep the boat that short, you shouldn't limit yourself.

"Michael Daly" wrote in
:

On 1-Apr-2004, (Gene Cosloy) wrote:

I'm
looking for a good tracker which, with minimum knee hanging effort
will get up on it's side and turn quickly. At the same time it
shoudn't be overly twitchy and have great secondary stability.
Moderate cockpit for a 5'10" 175 lb paddler and 16' with a skeg.

Is there a reason you are limiting it to 16'?

Ignoring the length limit, there are many in this category - Boreal
Designs Ellesmere, NDK Romany and Explorer, VCP Pintail and Anas
Acuta, Necky Chatham, WS Tempest, Nigel Foster's designs...

Good list but you forgot to mention tne VCP boat that *is* 16'; the Avocet.
It's also worth mentioning that the two Nigel Foster models that are 16'
(Rumour and Echo) *are* quite twitchy.

Doesn't the Eddyline Nighthawk come equipped with a skeg? That might be a
good addition to the list. I'd also add the P&H Capella and Vela (which is
actually less than 16' long). If you're going to include 18' long boats on
the list you might as well add the Current Designs Caribou.

Find a good dealer and try them out. A kayak symposium is also a
good way to check out and compare a lot of kayaks.

Mike

I notice that no one mentions Wilderness Systems. Any reason?

"John Fereira" wrote in message
.. .
"Michael Daly" wrote in
:

On 1-Apr-2004, (Gene Cosloy) wrote:

I'm
looking for a good tracker which, with minimum knee hanging effort
will get up on it's side and turn quickly. At the same time it
shoudn't be overly twitchy and have great secondary stability.
Moderate cockpit for a 5'10" 175 lb paddler and 16' with a skeg.

Is there a reason you are limiting it to 16'?

Ignoring the length limit, there are many in this category - Boreal
Designs Ellesmere, NDK Romany and Explorer, VCP Pintail and Anas
Acuta, Necky Chatham, WS Tempest, Nigel Foster's designs...

Good list but you forgot to mention tne VCP boat that *is* 16'; the
Avocet.
It's also worth mentioning that the two Nigel Foster models that are 16'
(Rumour and Echo) *are* quite twitchy.

Doesn't the Eddyline Nighthawk come equipped with a skeg? That might be a
good addition to the list. I'd also add the P&H Capella and Vela (which
is
actually less than 16' long). If you're going to include 18' long boats
on
the list you might as well add the Current Designs Caribou.

Find a good dealer and try them out. A kayak symposium is also a
good way to check out and compare a lot of kayaks.

Mike

"Michael Daly" wrote in news:6-
:

On 3-Apr-2004, "Alan Smith" wrote:

I notice that no one mentions Wilderness Systems. Any reason?

"Michael Daly" wrote in
:

... WS Tempest,...

You can add the Arctic Hawk too. And Sparrow Hawk.

Except that the criteria was "Moderate cockpit for a 5'10" 175 lb paddler
and 16' with a skeg." The Hawks don't come equipped with a skeg, have a
smallish cockpit, and it would be quite a squeeze in the Sparrow Hawk for
someone 5'10", 175#. If something longer than 16'is acceptable a Seaward
Endeavor would fit all the other criteria.

Someone mentioned sticking with the Lincoln boats. The Isle a Haut and
Eggemoggin look like very nice boats but I've never paddled either so can't
really make an recommendation.


There are a lot of kayaks in that class.

BTW - I'd downplay the "twitchy" part. While some kayaks are
excessively low in initial stability without noticable benefits*,
others are easy to get used to and you quickly find them to be
quite stable. My Ellesmere felt that way at first and now it
feels rock solid.

That sounds like something that I would write except that the FR Rumour and
CD Slipstream do, IMHO, have excessively low initial stability. In the
Rumour especially I never felt comfortable sitting still unless I had a
paddle ready for a brace. Once it was moving it was a sweet boat to paddle
though.


*like CD Slipstream [w/ big paddler - seems fine for smaller folk]
and Andromeda.


"John Fereira" wrote in message
.. .

Good list but you forgot to mention...

Yeah, but I don't have your encyclopedic knowledge of specific
kayaks :-)

Okay, but IMHO, the VCP Avocet belongs on just about anyones list if they're
looking for a 16' sea kayak.

John mentioned the Vela - it's tippy for a big paddler too. The
OP isn't much different in size than me and probably wouldn't like
it. At 14' or so (IIRC) it ain't speedy either.

It's actually 15'8" and I didn't find it particulary tippy, at least not as
tippy as a Slipstream or Rumour. Perhaps it was because the secondary was
so good that I didn't feel the initial twitchiness was much of an issue.
It's certainly not speedy compared to a Hawk or your Ellesmere but for a
shorter boat I thought it was pretty quick. It's more of a play boat than a
touring boat.

Brian Nystrom wrote in message ...
Since you're already familiar with Lincoln products, I suggest that you
check out the Isle Au Haut. It's a very nice, very seaworthy boat. It's
longer than your specified limit, but unless there's a specific need to
keep the boat that short, you shouldn't limit yourself.

Thanks for the input. Actually 16' was not a limit as much as a
reflection of my lack of knowledge. I just assummed that the longer
the boat, particularly with no rocker, the less maneuverable. My other
criteria is light as possible. Longer boats tend to be heavier.

Gene

John Fereira wrote:

That sounds like something that I would write except that the FR Rumour and
CD Slipstream do, IMHO, have excessively low initial stability. In the
Rumour especially I never felt comfortable sitting still unless I had a
paddle ready for a brace. Once it was moving it was a sweet boat to paddle
though.

There's no comparison between these two boats. I find the Slipstream
comfortably stable, but my girlfriend's rumour is positively scary. Even
for someone her size (5'2", 115#) and quite skilled, it's a challenging
boat to paddle. She likes it, but comes home much more tired after
paddling it than with her other boats.

Gene Cosloy wrote:

Brian Nystrom wrote in message ...

Since you're already familiar with Lincoln products, I suggest that you
check out the Isle Au Haut. It's a very nice, very seaworthy boat. It's
longer than your specified limit, but unless there's a specific need to
keep the boat that short, you shouldn't limit yourself.


Thanks for the input. Actually 16' was not a limit as much as a
reflection of my lack of knowledge. I just assummed that the longer
the boat, particularly with no rocker, the less maneuverable. My other
criteria is light as possible. Longer boats tend to be heavier.

Maneuverability is a function of design. There are some long boats that
are quite maneuverable. I would rate the Isle au Haut and moderately
maneuverable, that is, well balanced between maneuverability and tracking.

As you know, all the Lincoln boats are light weight.

John Fereira wrote in message ...
"Michael Daly" wrote in
:

On 1-Apr-2004, (Gene Cosloy) wrote:

I'm
looking for a good tracker which, with minimum knee hanging effort
will get up on it's side and turn quickly. At the same time it
shoudn't be overly twitchy and have great secondary stability.
Moderate cockpit for a 5'10" 175 lb paddler and 16' with a skeg.

Is there a reason you are limiting it to 16'?

Ignoring the length limit, there are many in this category - Boreal
Designs Ellesmere, NDK Romany and Explorer, VCP Pintail and Anas
Acuta, Necky Chatham, WS Tempest, Nigel Foster's designs...

Actually I have a good dealer in my area where I intend to try out: WS
Tempest, NF Legend, and CD Caribou and Gulfstream. The new Necky
Chatham won't be available until May. All they have is plastic which
I'm told does not perform the same as the composite version. Will
report back next week.

Gene

Good list but you forgot to mention tne VCP boat that *is* 16'; the Avocet.
It's also worth mentioning that the two Nigel Foster models that are 16'
(Rumour and Echo) *are* quite twitchy.

Doesn't the Eddyline Nighthawk come equipped with a skeg? That might be a
good addition to the list. I'd also add the P&H Capella and Vela (which is
actually less than 16' long). If you're going to include 18' long boats on
the list you might as well add the Current Designs Caribou.

Find a good dealer and try them out. A kayak symposium is also a
good way to check out and compare a lot of kayaks.

Mike

(Gene Cosloy) wrote in
om:

Brian Nystrom wrote in message
...
Since you're already familiar with Lincoln products, I suggest that
you check out the Isle Au Haut. It's a very nice, very seaworthy boat.
It's longer than your specified limit, but unless there's a specific
need to keep the boat that short, you shouldn't limit yourself.

Thanks for the input. Actually 16' was not a limit as much as a
reflection of my lack of knowledge. I just assummed that the longer
the boat, particularly with no rocker, the less maneuverable.

While that is generally true, how maneuverable does a sea kayak really need
to be? Unless you're going to be paddling in off shore rock gardens,
surfing, or on moving rivers with obstructions a very maneuverable boat
isn't going to provide much of an advantage. Most of the time you will most
likely want a sea kayak that tracks well. Any kayak can be turned around in
it's own length with a few sweep strokes. It's just that a longer boat
might require 1 or 2 more sweeps than a more maneuverable boat.

What is sounds like is that you're looking for a boat that will be conducive
to developing your skills, and while it is more rewarding to have a craft
that responds easier to turning strokes, you can develope skills in a 17'6"
boat just as easy as in a 16' boat. If anything learning bracing turns,
bow/stern rudders in a stiffer tracking boat might be better because it
provide a little more challenge to get the boat to react.

From the list of boats you described in another post, all of them should
meet your criteria. Go out and paddle them and decide for yourself which is
best for you.