wrote in message
t...


Tough call. I don't like these bailouts, but can we afford not to? In
this country, 1 in 10 jobs are connected to the auto industry. If the
auto companies fail, we're talking depression, not recession. All of
this, could get real scary, real quick.

This may sound harsh, but I am just about convinced that we are beyond any
form of healthy avenues for recovery.
The reasons are varied and there's plenty of blame to pass around, including
the consumer. At this point though, it just doesn't matter. Assigning
blame doesn't fix the problems.

I think we may just have to bite the bullet, allow Banks, Investment firms,
GM, GMAC, Ford, Ford Motor Credit and Chrysler (whoever they are now-a-days)
to file Chapter 11 bankrupcy, reorganize and start again. That will
unfortunatly cause bankrupcies in many supporting industrys but they are
currently structured to support what exists now, not as it should be.

Everyone is jumping on the bailout bandwagon. American Express just filed
to become a bank, thereby qualifying for some of the bailout money to cover
bad accounts. That's too much. Enough.

Like a hurricane every 100 years or so, it is going to require cleaning out
the deadwood before the forests can grow again.

Eisboch

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:42:23 -0500, Eisboch wrote:

wrote in message
t...


Tough call. I don't like these bailouts, but can we afford not to? In
this country, 1 in 10 jobs are connected to the auto industry. If the
auto companies fail, we're talking depression, not recession. All of
this, could get real scary, real quick.

This may sound harsh, but I am just about convinced that we are beyond
any form of healthy avenues for recovery. The reasons are varied and
there's plenty of blame to pass around, including the consumer. At this
point though, it just doesn't matter. Assigning blame doesn't fix the
problems.

I think we may just have to bite the bullet, allow Banks, Investment
firms, GM, GMAC, Ford, Ford Motor Credit and Chrysler (whoever they are
now-a-days) to file Chapter 11 bankrupcy, reorganize and start again.
That will unfortunatly cause bankrupcies in many supporting industrys
but they are currently structured to support what exists now, not as it
should be.

Everyone is jumping on the bailout bandwagon. American Express just
filed to become a bank, thereby qualifying for some of the bailout money
to cover bad accounts. That's too much. Enough.

Like a hurricane every 100 years or so, it is going to require cleaning
out the deadwood before the forests can grow again.

Eisboch

A part of me agrees with you. The deadwood needs to be gone, but I just
can't accept the "collateral damage". If we let the companies you
mentioned fail, we are talking breadlines. One of the reasons for the
Great Depression was Hoover's hands-off approach. I don't like these
bailouts, but they may be cheaper in the long run.

wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:42:23 -0500, Eisboch wrote:

wrote in message
t...


Tough call. I don't like these bailouts, but can we afford not to? In
this country, 1 in 10 jobs are connected to the auto industry. If the
auto companies fail, we're talking depression, not recession. All of
this, could get real scary, real quick.
This may sound harsh, but I am just about convinced that we are beyond
any form of healthy avenues for recovery. The reasons are varied and
there's plenty of blame to pass around, including the consumer. At this
point though, it just doesn't matter. Assigning blame doesn't fix the
problems.

I think we may just have to bite the bullet, allow Banks, Investment
firms, GM, GMAC, Ford, Ford Motor Credit and Chrysler (whoever they are
now-a-days) to file Chapter 11 bankrupcy, reorganize and start again.
That will unfortunatly cause bankrupcies in many supporting industrys
but they are currently structured to support what exists now, not as it
should be.

Everyone is jumping on the bailout bandwagon. American Express just
filed to become a bank, thereby qualifying for some of the bailout money
to cover bad accounts. That's too much. Enough.

Like a hurricane every 100 years or so, it is going to require cleaning
out the deadwood before the forests can grow again.

Eisboch

A part of me agrees with you. The deadwood needs to be gone, but I just
can't accept the "collateral damage". If we let the companies you
mentioned fail, we are talking breadlines. One of the reasons for the
Great Depression was Hoover's hands-off approach. I don't like these
bailouts, but they may be cheaper in the long run.

Collateral damage may be what is necessary. You can't change behavior if
only some feel the pain.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:03:38 -0600, wrote:

Like a hurricane every 100 years or so, it is going to require cleaning
out the deadwood before the forests can grow again.

In a climax forest the grounded is littered with dead trees. It takes
about as long for a tree to rot away as it took to grow it. In the
process all the oxygen produced by its growth will be used up, and all
the carbon fixed by it will go back into the atmosphere.

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:03:38 -0600, wrote:

Like a hurricane every 100 years or so, it is going to require cleaning
out the deadwood before the forests can grow again.



In a climax forest the grounded is littered with dead trees. It takes
about as long for a tree to rot away as it took to grow it. In the
process all the oxygen produced by its growth will be used up, and all
the carbon fixed by it will go back into the atmosphere.


Please. rec.boats is no place for logic.

Eisboch

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:42:23 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


wrote in message
et...


Tough call. I don't like these bailouts, but can we afford not to? In
this country, 1 in 10 jobs are connected to the auto industry. If the
auto companies fail, we're talking depression, not recession. All of
this, could get real scary, real quick.

This may sound harsh, but I am just about convinced that we are beyond any
form of healthy avenues for recovery.
The reasons are varied and there's plenty of blame to pass around, including
the consumer. At this point though, it just doesn't matter. Assigning
blame doesn't fix the problems.

I think we may just have to bite the bullet, allow Banks, Investment firms,
GM, GMAC, Ford, Ford Motor Credit and Chrysler (whoever they are now-a-days)
to file Chapter 11 bankrupcy, reorganize and start again. That will
unfortunatly cause bankrupcies in many supporting industrys but they are
currently structured to support what exists now, not as it should be.

Everyone is jumping on the bailout bandwagon. American Express just filed
to become a bank, thereby qualifying for some of the bailout money to cover
bad accounts. That's too much. Enough.

Like a hurricane every 100 years or so, it is going to require cleaning out
the deadwood before the forests can grow again.

Damn straight.

Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:42:23 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

wrote in message
t...

Tough call. I don't like these bailouts, but can we afford not to? In
this country, 1 in 10 jobs are connected to the auto industry. If the
auto companies fail, we're talking depression, not recession. All of
this, could get real scary, real quick.
This may sound harsh, but I am just about convinced that we are beyond any
form of healthy avenues for recovery.
The reasons are varied and there's plenty of blame to pass around, including
the consumer. At this point though, it just doesn't matter. Assigning
blame doesn't fix the problems.

I think we may just have to bite the bullet, allow Banks, Investment firms,
GM, GMAC, Ford, Ford Motor Credit and Chrysler (whoever they are now-a-days)
to file Chapter 11 bankrupcy, reorganize and start again. That will
unfortunatly cause bankrupcies in many supporting industrys but they are
currently structured to support what exists now, not as it should be.

Everyone is jumping on the bailout bandwagon. American Express just filed
to become a bank, thereby qualifying for some of the bailout money to cover
bad accounts. That's too much. Enough.

Like a hurricane every 100 years or so, it is going to require cleaning out
the deadwood before the forests can grow again.

Damn straight.


And what is your plan for the millions of workers who will lose their
jobs? Oh...I know...let them all die.

I would start by firing every member of an automaker's management team,
eliminating whatever "equity" the shareholders still have, renegotiating
all existing labor and supplier contracts, and hiring innovative
management that can begin producing world-class energy efficient cars
within two years, even if they have to buy the technology until they can
develop their own.

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:42:23 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

wrote in message
t...

Tough call. I don't like these bailouts, but can we afford not to? In
this country, 1 in 10 jobs are connected to the auto industry. If the
auto companies fail, we're talking depression, not recession. All of
this, could get real scary, real quick.
This may sound harsh, but I am just about convinced that we are beyond
any form of healthy avenues for recovery.
The reasons are varied and there's plenty of blame to pass around,
including the consumer. At this point though, it just doesn't matter.
Assigning blame doesn't fix the problems.

I think we may just have to bite the bullet, allow Banks, Investment
firms, GM, GMAC, Ford, Ford Motor Credit and Chrysler (whoever they are
now-a-days) to file Chapter 11 bankrupcy, reorganize and start again.
That will unfortunatly cause bankrupcies in many supporting industrys
but they are currently structured to support what exists now, not as it
should be.

Everyone is jumping on the bailout bandwagon. American Express just
filed to become a bank, thereby qualifying for some of the bailout money
to cover bad accounts. That's too much. Enough.

Like a hurricane every 100 years or so, it is going to require cleaning
out the deadwood before the forests can grow again.

Damn straight.


And what is your plan for the millions of workers who will lose their
jobs? Oh...I know...let them all die.

I would start by firing every member of an automaker's management team,
eliminating whatever "equity" the shareholders still have, renegotiating
all existing labor and supplier contracts, and hiring innovative
management that can begin producing world-class energy efficient cars
within two years, even if they have to buy the technology until they can
develop their own.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/conten...x?RsrcID=39292

A union bailout not an automaker bailout. Especially this point:
"NLPC says the UAW wants additional taxpayer money to enrich health and
retirement plans it controls. Indeed, UAW President Ron Gettelfinger has
urged Congress to act immediately to provide a separate, additional $25
billion in loans so auto companies can meet their health care obligations to
more than 780,000 retirees and dependents."
What about me when I got laid off because the company management made bad
decisions? I had to pay for my own health care costs. Can I now apply and
get reimbursed for those costs, plus interest?

Boater wrote:
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:42:23 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

wrote in message
t...

Tough call. I don't like these bailouts, but can we afford not to? In
this country, 1 in 10 jobs are connected to the auto industry. If the
auto companies fail, we're talking depression, not recession. All of
this, could get real scary, real quick.
This may sound harsh, but I am just about convinced that we are
beyond any form of healthy avenues for recovery.
The reasons are varied and there's plenty of blame to pass around,
including the consumer. At this point though, it just doesn't
matter. Assigning blame doesn't fix the problems.

I think we may just have to bite the bullet, allow Banks, Investment
firms, GM, GMAC, Ford, Ford Motor Credit and Chrysler (whoever they
are now-a-days) to file Chapter 11 bankrupcy, reorganize and start
again. That will unfortunatly cause bankrupcies in many supporting
industrys but they are currently structured to support what exists
now, not as it should be.

Everyone is jumping on the bailout bandwagon. American Express just
filed to become a bank, thereby qualifying for some of the bailout
money to cover bad accounts. That's too much. Enough.

Like a hurricane every 100 years or so, it is going to require
cleaning out the deadwood before the forests can grow again.

Damn straight.


And what is your plan for the millions of workers who will lose their
jobs? Oh...I know...let them all die.

I would start by firing every member of an automaker's management team,
eliminating whatever "equity" the shareholders still have, renegotiating
all existing labor and supplier contracts, and hiring innovative
management that can begin producing world-class energy efficient cars
within two years, even if they have to buy the technology until they can
develop their own.

Screw the investors? I don't think so. Burn all labor contracts.
Fire everybody. Sell the brand an equipment to an automaker who knows
how to do business. Hire back employees that can demonstrate needed
skills and collect the union cards as they enter the work place. Start
fresh and build innovative earth friendly vehicles.

As for the employees that don't get rehired, Americans, except for
Obama, Don't just let our people die. We'll find work for them even if
it means pushing out the illegals.

"Jim" wrote in message
...
Boater wrote:
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:42:23 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

wrote in message
t...

Tough call. I don't like these bailouts, but can we afford not to? In
this country, 1 in 10 jobs are connected to the auto industry. If the
auto companies fail, we're talking depression, not recession. All of
this, could get real scary, real quick.
This may sound harsh, but I am just about convinced that we are beyond
any form of healthy avenues for recovery.
The reasons are varied and there's plenty of blame to pass around,
including the consumer. At this point though, it just doesn't matter.
Assigning blame doesn't fix the problems.

I think we may just have to bite the bullet, allow Banks, Investment
firms, GM, GMAC, Ford, Ford Motor Credit and Chrysler (whoever they are
now-a-days) to file Chapter 11 bankrupcy, reorganize and start again.
That will unfortunatly cause bankrupcies in many supporting industrys
but they are currently structured to support what exists now, not as it
should be.

Everyone is jumping on the bailout bandwagon. American Express just
filed to become a bank, thereby qualifying for some of the bailout
money to cover bad accounts. That's too much. Enough.

Like a hurricane every 100 years or so, it is going to require cleaning
out the deadwood before the forests can grow again.

Damn straight.


And what is your plan for the millions of workers who will lose their
jobs? Oh...I know...let them all die.

I would start by firing every member of an automaker's management team,
eliminating whatever "equity" the shareholders still have, renegotiating
all existing labor and supplier contracts, and hiring innovative
management that can begin producing world-class energy efficient cars
within two years, even if they have to buy the technology until they can
develop their own.

Screw the investors? I don't think so. Burn all labor contracts.
Fire everybody. Sell the brand an equipment to an automaker who knows how
to do business. Hire back employees that can demonstrate needed skills and
collect the union cards as they enter the work place. Start fresh and
build innovative earth friendly vehicles.

As for the employees that don't get rehired, Americans, except for Obama,
Don't just let our people die. We'll find work for them even if it means
pushing out the illegals.


Maybe they could bend and scrape, cleaning your house or picking your crops
master.