When Bush first took office the national average price for a gallon of
regular gas was $1.46.

Today, eight years later, regular is selling around here for about
$2.21/gal. In some places, like Cleveland, Ohio, the price has dropped
below 2 bucks/gal.

Not bad for 8 years.

Nice job, W.


Eisboch (the facts are true, the rest is a joke to yank a few chains)

On Nov 12, 12:15*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
When Bush first took office the national average price for a gallon of
regular gas was $1.46.

Today, eight years later, *regular is selling around here for about
$2.21/gal. * In some places, like Cleveland, Ohio, the price has dropped
below 2 bucks/gal.

Not bad for 8 years.

Nice job, W.

Eisboch *(the facts are true, the rest is a joke to yank a few chains)

I paid $1.83

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
When Bush first took office the national average price for a gallon of
regular gas was $1.46.

Today, eight years later, regular is selling around here for about
$2.21/gal. In some places, like Cleveland, Ohio, the price has dropped
below 2 bucks/gal.

Not bad for 8 years.

Nice job, W.


Eisboch (the facts are true, the rest is a joke to yank a few chains)

The lower gas prices are nice. It's the rest of the *world* economy I'm
worried about.

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
When Bush first took office the national average price for a gallon of
regular gas was $1.46.

Today, eight years later, regular is selling around here for about
$2.21/gal. In some places, like Cleveland, Ohio, the price has dropped
below 2 bucks/gal.

Not bad for 8 years.

Nice job, W.


Eisboch (the facts are true, the rest is a joke to yank a few chains)

The lower gas prices are nice. It's the rest of the *world* economy I'm
worried about.

Insightful. It is really called deflation. The opposite of inflation.
With the market loosing so much value, people losing jobs, the prices people
will pay is going with it. The right "sustainable" price for oil would be
about $70-85 barrel.

Sounds good at first glance, but it is in reality a sure sign of depression.
It means that homes will further decrease in value and even more people will
"walk away" from their debts. In effect, the US economy value is equalizing
to India, China, South America...

This will lead to total collapse as how does the US government pay for a 12
trillion debt in an outright stalled economy? Government prints money like
a crack junky shoots dope.

Add the insatiable spend-crazy lust for governments to bail out companies
like GM and the banks paints a bleak picture for the US economy. Very bleak
indeed. Every time the government announces a bail out we get a market
tumble.

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
When Bush first took office the national average price for a gallon of
regular gas was $1.46.

Today, eight years later, regular is selling around here for about
$2.21/gal. In some places, like Cleveland, Ohio, the price has dropped
below 2 bucks/gal.

Not bad for 8 years.

Nice job, W.


Eisboch (the facts are true, the rest is a joke to yank a few chains)

The lower gas prices are nice. It's the rest of the *world* economy I'm
worried about.

Insightful. It is really called deflation. The opposite of inflation.
With the market loosing so much value, people losing jobs, the prices
people will pay is going with it. The right "sustainable" price for oil
would be about $70-85 barrel.

Sounds good at first glance, but it is in reality a sure sign of
depression. It means that homes will further decrease in value and even
more people will "walk away" from their debts. In effect, the US economy
value is equalizing to India, China, South America...

This will lead to total collapse as how does the US government pay for a
12 trillion debt in an outright stalled economy? Government prints money
like a crack junky shoots dope.

Add the insatiable spend-crazy lust for governments to bail out companies
like GM and the banks paints a bleak picture for the US economy. Very
bleak indeed. Every time the government announces a bail out we get a
market tumble.

My hope is that the GM/Ford/Chrysler problems are resolved (if resolvable)
in bankruptcy, not throwing more tax payer dollars at them.

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...


My hope is that the GM/Ford/Chrysler problems are resolved (if resolvable)
in bankruptcy, not throwing more tax payer dollars at them.


Duck, I couldn't agree with you more. Chapter 11 isn't permanent. It
allows for "reorganization" which is exactly what the auto industry needs to
do right now. Revise business plans, products and re-negotiate the union
contracts under the watchful eye of a bankruptcy judge.

Handing them a pile of taxpayer money, calling it a government "investment"
just to keep them in business under their current organizational structures
won't do a damn thing.

Eisboch

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:12:16 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"D.Duck" wrote in message
m...


My hope is that the GM/Ford/Chrysler problems are resolved (if resolvable)
in bankruptcy, not throwing more tax payer dollars at them.


Duck, I couldn't agree with you more. Chapter 11 isn't permanent. It
allows for "reorganization" which is exactly what the auto industry needs to
do right now. Revise business plans, products and re-negotiate the union
contracts under the watchful eye of a bankruptcy judge.

Handing them a pile of taxpayer money, calling it a government "investment"
just to keep them in business under their current organizational structures
won't do a damn thing.

I agree.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...


My hope is that the GM/Ford/Chrysler problems are resolved (if
resolvable) in bankruptcy, not throwing more tax payer dollars at them.


Duck, I couldn't agree with you more. Chapter 11 isn't permanent. It
allows for "reorganization" which is exactly what the auto industry needs
to do right now. Revise business plans, products and re-negotiate the
union contracts under the watchful eye of a bankruptcy judge.

Handing them a pile of taxpayer money, calling it a government
"investment" just to keep them in business under their current
organizational structures won't do a damn thing.

Eisboch

I agree. But one should view these as government taxes to prop up business.
One way or another it is going to be main street taxes propping up these
businesses that refuse to change to the times. There have been promises of
profitability for decades than have fallen by the wayside. Relief isn't
what they need, chapter 11 is the start of real change.

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
When Bush first took office the national average price for a gallon of
regular gas was $1.46.

Today, eight years later, regular is selling around here for about
$2.21/gal. In some places, like Cleveland, Ohio, the price has
dropped below 2 bucks/gal.

Not bad for 8 years.

Nice job, W.


Eisboch (the facts are true, the rest is a joke to yank a few chains)

The lower gas prices are nice. It's the rest of the *world* economy I'm
worried about.

Insightful. It is really called deflation. The opposite of inflation.
With the market loosing so much value, people losing jobs, the prices
people will pay is going with it. The right "sustainable" price for oil
would be about $70-85 barrel.

Sounds good at first glance, but it is in reality a sure sign of
depression. It means that homes will further decrease in value and even
more people will "walk away" from their debts. In effect, the US economy
value is equalizing to India, China, South America...

This will lead to total collapse as how does the US government pay for a
12 trillion debt in an outright stalled economy? Government prints money
like a crack junky shoots dope.

Add the insatiable spend-crazy lust for governments to bail out companies
like GM and the banks paints a bleak picture for the US economy. Very
bleak indeed. Every time the government announces a bail out we get a
market tumble.

My hope is that the GM/Ford/Chrysler problems are resolved (if resolvable)
in bankruptcy, not throwing more tax payer dollars at them.

Not likely for GM. I haven't looked at Chrysler or Ford, but GM is so far
in debt I would deem it impossible for them to get out and survive. In at
least chapter 11 is inevitable one way or another. Even if they get $50
billion, at their current burn rate and prior obligations being deferred,
that will not last long.

And there isn't room for 3 any more. What will they do with the cars they
make that no one buys? Pile them up across the country and let them rust?
The middle class is out of gas with credit and until that balance of equity
gets greater than the debt any half brained investor is going to see them as
bankrupt be it declared or not.

GM needs to go down if it can't pay the bills. Makes room for others to
survive and produce products people will use.

GM as a brand will survive, sold as part of it's liquidation. Choice
profitable models and brands will still be made.

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...


Insightful. It is really called deflation. The opposite of inflation.
With the market loosing so much value, people losing jobs, the prices
people will pay is going with it. The right "sustainable" price for oil
would be about $70-85 barrel.

Sounds good at first glance, but it is in reality a sure sign of
depression. It means that homes will further decrease in value and even
more people will "walk away" from their debts. In effect, the US economy
value is equalizing to India, China, South America...

This will lead to total collapse as how does the US government pay for a
12 trillion debt in an outright stalled economy? Government prints money
like a crack junky shoots dope.

Add the insatiable spend-crazy lust for governments to bail out companies
like GM and the banks paints a bleak picture for the US economy. Very
bleak indeed. Every time the government announces a bail out we get a
market tumble.


Good post. You seem to have a handle on the economics of this mess.

Eisboch