frank wrote:
:
:Bull****. Take a decent economics course, if they offer any anymore.
:

I have a degree in the field, Frank. You're an idiot.

:
:Progressive income tax with higher rates for richest is the way to go.
:Flat tax is worst on the poor. Hell everybody agreed on that until
:these stupid Republicans under Reagan took over.
:

Wrong. Progressive taxes are the MOST distortive to market forces.
Flat taxes distort the least and hence are the way to go.

If 'everyone agreed' until Reagan, why did JFK make taxes much less
regressive (and thereby stimulate both the economy and government tax
receipts)?

:
:You know under Eisenhower, tax rate was 91% for some of the highest
:brackets?
:

Yes, and you know JFK changed that because it was ****ing up the
economy so badly, right?

:
:You know some of them actually complained to the Treasury
:Secretary, and his response was, pay your damn taxes, you can afford
:it. You are gaining the largess due to what this country provides for
:you. From infrastructure to safe means to park your funds.
:

Cite? I think you're lying again.

:
:The only people advocating a flat tax are the super rich who would
:make a killing on it
:

You're lying again.

:
its only income and they would not count
:investments as income).
:

You're lying again.

:
:Why the hell is Forbes so gung ho on it?
:

Because he actually understand what you do not; non-flat taxes on
income distort the economy.

:
:To
:help the middle class? Hell no. He has no clue how you live. Neither
:does McCain or his wife. Anybody got a quarter mil earrings for the
:wife lately? Thought not. Well, you can thank the Reagan / Bush tax
:cuts for them getting richer and richer and ****ing away more than
:you'd pay on a house for ear candy.
:

Jealousy is SO ugly, Frank. You and your "eat the rich; the poor are
tough and stringy" crowd make me nauseous. Where do you think the
jobs come from?

:
:Look at how many people are millionaires or billionaires. And how many
:Americans have lost their jobs or houses? These tax cuts are killing
:the US
:

Now go look at who is paying the taxes, Frank...

--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

On Sep 14, 12:30*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
frank wrote:

:
:Bull****. Take a decent economics course, if they offer any anymore.
:

I have a degree in the field, Frank. *You're an idiot.

:
:Progressive income tax with higher rates for richest is the way to go.
:Flat tax is worst on the poor. Hell everybody agreed on that until
:these stupid Republicans under Reagan took over.
:

Wrong. *Progressive taxes are the MOST distortive to market forces.
Flat taxes distort the least and hence are the way to go.

?? why does allowing people to buy homes and feed and educate their
kids 'distort' the market? that's why the middle class should pay less
than the ultrawealthy. that's what a progressive tax permits. the
existence of a middle class.

Because he actually understand what you do not; non-flat taxes on
income distort the economy.

and taxing the middle class, while allowing an increasing accumulation
of wealth by the richest 0.1% of our society is destroying the middle
class in this country. middle class incomes haven't increased in 30
years, after adjusting for inflation. in the last 8 years,
productivity has increased about 20% but none of that increase has
gone to the middle class, while the wealthy have increased their share
of the national wealth.


:
:To
:help the middle class? Hell no. He has no clue how you live. Neither
:does McCain or his wife. Anybody got a quarter mil earrings for the
:wife lately? Thought not. Well, you can thank the Reagan / Bush tax
:cuts for them getting richer and richer and ****ing away more than
:you'd pay on a house for ear candy.
:

Jealousy is SO ugly, Frank. *You and your "eat the rich; the poor are
tough and stringy" crowd make me nauseous. *Where do you think the
jobs come from?

that would be nice if unemployment hadn't increased 30% under bush's
tax cut policy


:
:Look at how many people are millionaires or billionaires. And how many
:Americans have lost their jobs or houses? These tax cuts are killing
:the US
:

Now go look at who is paying the taxes, Frank...


the rich only want to focus on payroll taxes. when you include ALL
taxes, the middle class is being hammered.

Yes, and you know JFK changed that because it was ****ing up the
economy so badly, right?

No Fred you're a liar and an idiot.

He cut taxes as there was no government spending or deficit at the
time and he was concerned that there would be too much money in the
Federal treasury and that would distort the economy.

We have not been in that condition since.

With the rising debt (doubled under this idiot), and the interest in
the debt, up to $405 billion this year, WE NEED TO **** CAN the tax
cuts. WHY DO YOU THINK REAGAN HAD THE LARGEST TAX INCREASE IN HISTORY
RIGHT AFTER HE HAD THE LARGEST TAX CUT? IT DID NOT WORK. IT WAS VOODOO
ECONOMICS. Bush I was right in that case.

You may think you have a degree in the field but you're an idiot who
doesn't know what he's talking about.

Go back in your cage and play with your feces until its feeding time.

frank wrote:
:
:
: Yes, and you know JFK changed that because it was ****ing up the
: economy so badly, right?
:
:
:No Fred you're a liar and an idiot.
:

Well, there's a telling and fact-based rebuttal.

About what one would expect from a political shill like Frank.

:
:He cut taxes as there was no government spending or deficit at the
:time and he was concerned that there would be too much money in the
:Federal treasury and that would distort the economy.
:
:We have not been in that condition since.
:

We weren't in that condition THEN, either. You just don't really let
reality intrude, do you, Frank? Public debt was a higher percentage
of GDP *THEN* than it is now (45% vs 38%).

A few quotes for you to show you what JFK was thinking. I doubt it
will change your silly misinterpretation, above, since you don't let
reality affect your opinions, but perhaps this time will be the first
and you will like the change.


"It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high and tax
revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the
long run is to cut the rates now ... Cutting taxes now is not to incur
a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding
economy which can bring a budget surplus."

– John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, president's news conference


"Lower rates of taxation will stimulate economic activity and so raise
the levels of personal and corporate income as to yield within a few
years an increased – not a reduced – flow of revenues to the federal
government."

– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 17, 1963, annual budget message to the
Congress, fiscal year 1964


"In today's economy, fiscal prudence and responsibility call for tax
reduction even if it temporarily enlarges the federal deficit – why
reducing taxes is the best way open to us to increase revenues."

– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 21, 1963, annual message to the Congress: "The
Economic Report Of The President"


"Our tax system still siphons out of the private economy too large a
share of personal and business purchasing power and reduces the
incentive for risk, investment and effort – thereby aborting our
recoveries and stifling our national growth rate."

– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 24, 1963, message to Congress on tax reduction
and reform, House Doc. 43, 88th Congress, 1st Session.


"A tax cut means higher family income and higher business profits and
a balanced federal budget. Every taxpayer and his family will have
more money left over after taxes for a new car, a new home, new
conveniences, education and investment. Every businessman can keep a
higher percentage of his profits in his cash register or put it to
work expanding or improving his business, and as the national income
grows, the federal government will ultimately end up with more
revenues."

– John F. Kennedy, Sept. 18, 1963, radio and television address to the
nation on tax-reduction bill


"Our present tax system ... exerts too heavy a drag on growth ... It
reduces the financial incentives for personal effort, investment, and
risk-taking ... The present tax load ... distorts economic judgments
and channels an undue amount of energy into efforts to avoid tax
liabilities."

– John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, press conference


"In short, it is a paradoxical truth that ... the soundest way to
raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now. The
experience of a number of European countries and Japan have borne this
out. This country's own experience with tax reduction in 1954 has
borne this out. And the reason is that only full employment can
balance the budget, and tax reduction can pave the way to that
employment. The purpose of cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget
deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which
can bring a budget surplus."

– John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, news conference

:
:With the rising debt (doubled under this idiot), and the interest in
:the debt, up to $405 billion this year, WE NEED TO **** CAN the tax
:cuts. WHY DO YOU THINK REAGAN HAD THE LARGEST TAX INCREASE IN HISTORY
:RIGHT AFTER HE HAD THE LARGEST TAX CUT? IT DID NOT WORK. IT WAS VOODOO
:ECONOMICS. Bush I was right in that case.
:

And debt is still not at the level it was at under JFK. It also
hasn't "doubled" in any real terms, although it has gone up (which
usually happens when you're fighting a war). In 2000 public debt was
a bit over 35% of GDP. Now it's about 38% of GDP (predicted for
2008). For historical comparison, that number in 1950 (coming out of
WWII and into Korea and the Cold War) was OVER 80% OF GDP.

As for your all uppercase statement, I think you're lying. Let's see
a cite.

:
:You may think you have a degree in the field but you're an idiot who
:doesn't know what he's talking about.
:
:Go back in your cage and play with your feces until its feeding time.
:

Now there's a telling factual analysis in rebuttal.

You're pathetic, Frank.

--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates

Fred J. McCall wrote:
frank wrote:
:
:Bull****. Take a decent economics course, if they offer any anymore.
:

I have a degree in the field, Frank. You're an idiot.

:
:Progressive income tax with higher rates for richest is the way to go.
:Flat tax is worst on the poor. Hell everybody agreed on that until
:these stupid Republicans under Reagan took over.
:

Wrong. Progressive taxes are the MOST distortive to market forces.
Flat taxes distort the least and hence are the way to go.

If 'everyone agreed' until Reagan, why did JFK make taxes much less
regressive (and thereby stimulate both the economy and government tax
receipts)?

Me! Me! I know! Pick me!

Um, because they started at different initial conditions, ALEX?

I really hate the dishonest NeoCon/Republican One-Size-Fits-All approach
to life ("Takes all the mystery out of it.").


PLEASE someone remail this so Fred can see it - she has pretty much
killfiled anyone who disagrees with her, ostrich that she is.


:You know under Eisenhower, tax rate was 91% for some of the highest
:brackets?

Yes, and you know JFK changed that because it was ****ing up the
economy so badly, right?

Yeah, so why did Reagan mess with the economy by lowering taxes, then?

:You know some of them actually complained to the Treasury
:Secretary, and his response was, pay your damn taxes, you can afford
:it. You are gaining the largess due to what this country provides for
:you. From infrastructure to safe means to park your funds.

Cite? I think you're lying again.

You don't get economic value out of the interstate highway system?
People who ship more goods do not get a disproportional advantage from
the same system? You need a cite for that?

:The only people advocating a flat tax are the super rich who would
:make a killing on it

You're lying again.

"Only" is hyperbole - there are some uneducated folks who are not rich
who have been convinced by their NeoCon handlers to believe it, also.
Half point to Fred.

its only income and they would not count investments as income).

You're lying again.

No, he is just describing one such plan. In fact, most flat tax plans I
have seen do give steep discounts or free rides to capital gains, earned
disproportionately by people with the most disposable income (both as
"working" compensation and as investments).

:Why the hell is Forbes so gung ho on it?

Because he actually understand what you do not; non-flat taxes on
income distort the economy.

But flat-taxes also distort the economy. ANY economic activity, whether
by private, semi-private, or public agents, "distorts the economy," by
your definition, so what was your point? What gain do you actually
expect to see from a flat tax? You have never actually stated any, just
your view that it would not "distort the economy" somehow. What
BENEFITS are there in a flat tax? What drawbacks are there in a flat
tax? An honest debater would list several in each category, since there
are many in each category.

:To
:help the middle class? Hell no. He has no clue how you live. Neither
:does McCain or his wife. Anybody got a quarter mil earrings for the
:wife lately? Thought not. Well, you can thank the Reagan / Bush tax
:cuts for them getting richer and richer and ****ing away more than
:you'd pay on a house for ear candy.

Jealousy is SO ugly, Frank.

Jealousy? Methinks you should peruse a dictionary before you next put
finger to keyboard.

You and your "eat the rich; the poor are
tough and stringy" crowd make me nauseous. Where do you think the
jobs come from?

Small businesses trying to make a go of it in a big business world and
government. That is the record of the Bush plan; the losses come mainly
from big businesses shipping jobs overseas for tax breaks and small
businesses shopping out manufacturing to overseas facilities. The US
needs approximately 250,000 NET new jobs per month JUST TO STAY EVEN -
the Bush economy hasn't even met THAT goal more than a time or two...
Yet their "stimulus plans" have cost the country trillions of dollars,
not even factoring in the war. Those tax cuts sure have been wonderful...

:Look at how many people are millionaires or billionaires. And how many
:Americans have lost their jobs or houses? These tax cuts are killing
:the US

Now go look at who is paying the taxes, Frank...

Now, not too many people, which is why the deficit and the debt have
ballooned under the current administration, EVEN WITH people taking
equity out of their homes (which are NOW losing value) so they could get by.

Face it Fred, your plan has screwed the country - and you want MORE of
it. Just what DO you do that you want to screw your neighbors so much?

.................................................. .................
Poor Frank, can't even get to the level of being killfiled by Fred.
Keep trying - if you put enough rational information out there, Fred
will have no choice but to killfile you. Think of it as a badge of honor.
.................................................. .................

Dan