On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 08:55:18 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

Peter Skelton wrote:

:On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:00:23 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:
:Taxes based on income should be flat. They distort the economy the
:least that way and allow it to function closer to its optimum levels.
:
:
:That, of course, is a religious statement, devoid of proof and
:unprovable.
:

No, Peter, that is a basic fact, as you would know if you knew
anything at all about Economics.

Another religious statement, followed by a flat lie. If you have
a proof, show it.

Peter Skelton

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:02:22 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

"Eisboch" wrote:

:
:"wf3h" wrote in message news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265-
:
:the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!!
:how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains?
:

Start taxing capital gains at an even more confiscatory level and see
just what happens to "much of middle class" retirement.

:
:that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have
:to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from
:capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING
:for a living
:

Yes, the wealthy never do anything, do they? Makes you wonder how
they got and stayed wealthy...

:
:---------------------------------
:
:It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and
:capital gains taxes.
:
:Some see it your way. Others see the reduction of the capital gains
enalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general economy
:which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities.
:
:The fact that you have never figured out how to take advantage of it doesn't
:mean it's bad for all.
:

In point of fact, capital gains is a PUNITIVE tax. The rich didn't
put it in place. Morons like Eisboch did.

Bull**** Fred. Capital gains are income, you are a believer in
flat tax aren't you?

That they should be treated differently from some other types of
income is too f*g obvious to debate. That there are other
categories of income that need to be treated specially is also
obvious.

Flat tax is an especially odious form of voodoo economics.


Peter Skelton

wrote in message
...

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:13:55 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


I am a member of the middle class. I am not a moron. I am also
realistic
and knowledgeable enough to know that a growing world global economy was
being talked about by AGore, back in the early 90's, and the changes it
would have on the US job market and economy.

You have to prepare for and adjust to the times, not wait until your job
disappears and then waste all your time and energy complaining about it.

EIsboch



Sorry, Eichman, but we've seen pictures of your gentleman's farm and
many of your toys. You do not even remotely qualify as middle class,
unless you recently moved to Monaco and didn't tell us.



Ok. Here's what I don't get.....

The money that paid for the "gentleman's farm" (as you call it) and the toys
was earned as a regular, run of the mill, middle class work-a-bee .......
me.

My roots are firmly planted in the middle class economic sector. In fact,
if anything, more towards lower middle class, financially because I got a
late start in civilian employment and had to play financial catch up for a
while to equal my contemporaries that started work right out of high school
or college. Spent 9 years in the Navy doing a lot of interesting things
however none were particularly financially rewarding.

So, I go about making a living. Like most, I worked hard and took advantage
of opportunities. But one thing I *never* did was complain about those that
had more than I, nor did I envy them or the "rich". Frankly, I was too
busy trying to make a living.

The reward that came and now puts us in a comfortable financial situation
was never planned, considered or even dreamed of.
It just happened to turn out that what I did became very valuable to someone
else.

And, since I am not a complete dummy, I accepted.

So now, my question is ..... if I worked and lived most of my life as a
member of the middle class group, and then I happen to have a degree of
financial success, due to efforts as such, why am I now viewed differently,
called a moron and suddenly accused of not being able to understand what
it's like to be "middle class"?

My point is that I subscribe to and fully support the freedoms we have to
pursue any level of achievement, financial or otherwise that we set for
ourselves. It's not always easy, but as long as we have the freedom to
aspire, we can make that choice.
My biggest concern about the current Democratic party philosophy, and
particularly that of Obama, is that, if elected, we are going to rely more
on government to cure our middle class problems. This will, by default,
further classify us, average us, and take away the incentives of individual
initiative. In other words, another giant step towards socialism.

I am firmly convinced that Obama is an unannounced socialist, BTW.

Eisboch

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

As to Obama saying he is going to cut taxes for 95% of the people.
Impossible. Only 45% pay income tax in the first place.


You just said a mouthful.

He's really describing another form of government, namely Socialism.

All his speeches, writings and comments drip of the signals. If he is
elected and the Dems truly get control of the Congress, we are in for some
major "Changes".

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

As to Obama saying he is going to cut taxes for 95% of the people.
Impossible. Only 45% pay income tax in the first place.


You just said a mouthful.

He's really describing another form of government, namely Socialism.

All his speeches, writings and comments drip of the signals. If he is
elected and the Dems truly get control of the Congress, we are in for some
major "Changes".

Eisboch


Damn! did it again. I sure wish the "a" hole that started this cross
posting .... hadn't.

Eisboch

Peter Skelton wrote:

:On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 08:55:18 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:
:Peter Skelton wrote:
:
::On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:00:23 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
::
::Taxes based on income should be flat. They distort the economy the
::least that way and allow it to function closer to its optimum levels.
::
::
::That, of course, is a religious statement, devoid of proof and
::unprovable.
::
:
:No, Peter, that is a basic fact, as you would know if you knew
:anything at all about Economics.
:
:Another religious statement, followed by a flat lie. If you have
:a proof, show it.
:

No 'religious' statement and no lie.

Where and when did you get your degree in economics, Peter?

--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates

Peter Skelton wrote:

:On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:02:22 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:
:"Eisboch" wrote:
:
::
::"wf3h" wrote in message news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265-
::
::the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!!
::how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains?
::
:
:Start taxing capital gains at an even more confiscatory level and see
:just what happens to "much of middle class" retirement.
:
::
::that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have
::to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from
::capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING
::for a living
::
:
:Yes, the wealthy never do anything, do they? Makes you wonder how
:they got and stayed wealthy...
:
::
::---------------------------------
::
::It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and
::capital gains taxes.
::
::Some see it your way. Others see the reduction of the capital gains
:enalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general economy
::which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities.
::
::The fact that you have never figured out how to take advantage of it doesn't
::mean it's bad for all.
::
:
:In point of fact, capital gains is a PUNITIVE tax. The rich didn't
:put it in place. Morons like Eisboch did.
:
:Bull**** Fred.
:

Bull**** yourself, Peter.

:
:Capital gains are income,
:

Which has already been taxed once before it gets treated as capital
gains.

:
:you are a believer in
:flat tax aren't you?
:

Define what YOU mean by 'flat tax' and perhaps we could see.

But you're too busy being insulting and squealing to hold a real
conversation with...

:
:Flat tax is an especially odious form of voodoo economics.
:

Thus speaks ignorance...

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:56:25 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:13:55 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


I am a member of the middle class. I am not a moron. I am also
realistic
and knowledgeable enough to know that a growing world global economy was
being talked about by AGore, back in the early 90's, and the changes it
would have on the US job market and economy.

You have to prepare for and adjust to the times, not wait until your job
disappears and then waste all your time and energy complaining about it.

EIsboch



Sorry, Eichman, but we've seen pictures of your gentleman's farm and
many of your toys. You do not even remotely qualify as middle class,
unless you recently moved to Monaco and didn't tell us.



Ok. Here's what I don't get.....

The money that paid for the "gentleman's farm" (as you call it) and the toys
was earned as a regular, run of the mill, middle class work-a-bee .......
me.

My roots are firmly planted in the middle class economic sector. In fact,
if anything, more towards lower middle class, financially because I got a
late start in civilian employment and had to play financial catch up for a
while to equal my contemporaries that started work right out of high school
or college. Spent 9 years in the Navy doing a lot of interesting things
however none were particularly financially rewarding.

So, I go about making a living. Like most, I worked hard and took advantage
of opportunities. But one thing I *never* did was complain about those that
had more than I, nor did I envy them or the "rich". Frankly, I was too
busy trying to make a living.

The reward that came and now puts us in a comfortable financial situation
was never planned, considered or even dreamed of.
It just happened to turn out that what I did became very valuable to someone
else.

And, since I am not a complete dummy, I accepted.

So now, my question is ..... if I worked and lived most of my life as a
member of the middle class group, and then I happen to have a degree of
financial success, due to efforts as such, why am I now viewed differently,
called a moron and suddenly accused of not being able to understand what
it's like to be "middle class"?

My point is that I subscribe to and fully support the freedoms we have to
pursue any level of achievement, financial or otherwise that we set for
ourselves. It's not always easy, but as long as we have the freedom to
aspire, we can make that choice.
My biggest concern about the current Democratic party philosophy, and
particularly that of Obama, is that, if elected, we are going to rely more
on government to cure our middle class problems. This will, by default,
further classify us, average us, and take away the incentives of individual
initiative. In other words, another giant step towards socialism.

I am firmly convinced that Obama is an unannounced socialist, BTW.

Eisboch


You are not middle class, Einstein, and you clearly have no clue as to
what the middle class is faced with.

On Sep 14, 12:13*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

...
On Sep 14, 8:53 am, "Eisboch" wrote:





"wf3h" wrote in message
news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265-

the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!!
how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains?
that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have
to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from
capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING
for a living

---------------------------------

It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and
capital gains taxes.

Some see it your way. Others see the reduction of the capital gains
penalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general
economy
which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities.

and others see that an honest day's work for an honest day's pay is an
honorable thing...except for the 'capital gains' class of folks who,
in their elitist mindset, sneer at honest labor and don't think the
middle class deserves even to be PAID for their work



The fact that you have never figured out how to take advantage of it
doesn't
mean it's bad for all.

the fact you think the middle class is a bunch of morons speaks for
itself.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I am a member of the middle class. * I am not a moron.

you may be middle class. but you are DEFINITELY a moron, with your
belief in the tooth fairy

*I am also realistic
and knowledgeable enough to know that a growing world global economy was
being talked about by AGore, back in the early 90's, and the changes it
would have on the US job market and economy.

well, i guess this must be true. after all, you said it and you
believe it.

You have to prepare for and adjust to the times, not wait until your job
disappears and then waste all your time and energy complaining about it.


oh brother...no one knows what this means. again, you're spinning
fairy tales.

On Sep 14, 2:56*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:

So, I go about making a living. *Like most, I worked hard and took advantage
of opportunities. *But one thing I *never* did was complain about those that
had more than I, nor did I envy them or the "rich". *

WHOA tall dark stranger. NO ONE is comlaining about those who have
'more than i'. what i'm complaining about is complacent idiots like
you who place all blame on the middle class, on unions, etc. and
completely exculpate the enrons, the bear stearns, the oil
companies...the numerous companies that lay off hundreds of thousands
of people...destroy whole communities

THEN bribe politicians to keep health care private, little or no re-
education funding, etc. you're in incompetent shill who just loves a
good fairy tale.

My point is that I subscribe to and fully support the freedoms we have to
pursue any level of achievement, financial or otherwise that we set for
ourselves. *It's not always easy, but as long as we have the freedom to
aspire, we can make that choice.

really?

then, pray tell, why are virtually no students admitted to ivy league
schools from working class families? what do you do with places like
findlay, ohio, or pittsburgh that are wiped out by corporate
abandoment?

why are the right to work states also those with the highest
illiteracy, highest rates of teen pregancy, lowest wages, etc. why do
those who believe as YOU do wind up at the bottom end of the economic
ladder, all the while telling us how successful they are?


My biggest concern about the current Democratic party philosophy, and
particularly that of Obama, is that, if elected, we are going to rely more
on government to cure our middle class problems.

ROFLMAO!! hey moron..it seems to work for the rich. everytime the RICH
get into trouble, they tell us that they're too important to
fail...witness bear stearns. THEN they rely on the GOP and the govt to
cure THEIR problems

you, with your fairy tale mentality, can't handle that. it blows your
fuse to even consider it. you're a socialist. you're just too dumb to
realize the socialism you're in favor of is socialism for the rich.


*This will, by default,
further classify us, average us, and take away the incentives of individual
initiative. * In other words, another giant step towards socialism.

I am firmly convinced that Obama is an unannounced socialist, BTW.

well, then...you and he have something in common, because, so are you.