"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"hk" wrote in message
. ..


DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

General Motors Corp. (GM) posted a stunning $15.5 billion second-quarter
net loss, as the auto maker piled up $9.1 billion in charges and
write-downs and suffered a deep drop in North American sales.

The company had warned in mid-July that it would post "a significant
second quarter loss." But the actual numbers were far worse than analysts
had expected, and point to the enormous challenges facing GM as buyers
turn away en masse from its most profitable offerings.

GM shares fell more than 7% in premarket trading to $10.20.

GM reported a net loss of $27.33 a share, compared with net income of
$891 million, or $1.56 a share, a year earlier. Excluding items, the loss
was $6.3 billion, or $11.21 a share.

Revenue fell 18% to $38.2 billion.

Analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters had been looking for a loss,
excluding items, of $2.62 a share on revenue of $44.57 billion.

GM's Latin American operation was a bright spot - profit rose to $445
million from $296 million. But Asia swung to loss and European profits
tumbled 94%.

Excluding charges, the North American business had a $4.3 billion loss as
revenue dropped by one-third to $19.8 billion, pushing market share down
to 20.2% from 22.7%.

A year ago, GM swung to a second-quarter profit as it relied on continued
strength in international operations and a slim profit in its core North
American automotive unit to dramatically improve its bottom line.

GM's earnings were also dented by a $1.2 billion loss from its 49% stake
in its GMAC LLC financing arm. Thursday, GMAC swung to a second-quarter
loss as it took a $716 million write-down on leases and recorded more
losses from its Residential Capital LLC unit.

Second-quarter cash levels fell to $21 billion at the end of the second
quarter from $23.9 billion at the end of the first quarter.

The dismal second quarter caps four consecutive years of disappointing
results, dating back to the beginning of 2005, when GM shocked Wall
Street with an abrupt string of deep losses. Since then, Chief Executive
Rick Wagoner has been racing to cut costs, slim down operations and
remake the vehicle portfolio.

*At the same time, Wagoner has invested heavily into emerging markets,
placing big bets in Latin America, Eastern Europe and Asia even as market
share dwindles at home.*

- - -

Any bets as to when GM will abandon manufacturing in the U.S. market?



No time soon.

Although dismal financial results, the bulk of the "losses" are write offs
and charges to re-tool for the manufacture of more smaller, fuel efficient
cars for the US market.

They have been retooling for 4 decades.

WTF.

Sounds horrible, and I am not making light of the problems, but it's not
as bad as the media (and you) are making it out to be.

Worse, bankrupt GM.

GM is toast.

"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:RROkk.50596$nD.3370@pd7urf1no...

"Eisboch" wrote in message


Although dismal financial results, the bulk of the "losses" are write
offs and charges to re-tool for the manufacture of more smaller, fuel
efficient cars for the US market.



They have been retooling for 4 decades.

WTF.



Sounds horrible, and I am not making light of the problems, but it's not
as bad as the media (and you) are making it out to be.

Worse, bankrupt GM.

GM is toast.


I'll try again.

Automakers build what the consumer buys.

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in news:
:

Automakers build what the consumer buys.

Eisboch



This consumer is trying to by a DIESEL Smart ForTwo but Smart USA doesn't
want to sell me one....dammit.

I may toss caution to the wind and fly to Canada and buy one, even used.
They're plastic so the salt doesn't eat them up there. The diesel is
important to me as I want one to burn on Vegetable oil like my other
diesels do.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in news:
:

Automakers build what the consumer buys.

Eisboch



This consumer is trying to by a DIESEL Smart ForTwo but Smart USA doesn't
want to sell me one....dammit.

I may toss caution to the wind and fly to Canada and buy one, even used.
They're plastic so the salt doesn't eat them up there. The diesel is
important to me as I want one to burn on Vegetable oil like my other
diesels do.



The "Smart" car's availability in the USA is a little confusing. For
several years a company (forget their name) have been importing them,
modifying them to meet US safety standards and selling them. This was done
without the blessings of Mercedes, who owns the Smart car product line.

Mercedes has introduced "official" Smart cars to the US market, but as you
have discovered, only two models are currently available. If demand
warrants, they plan to make available other models, including the diesel.

That's how I understand the current situation. I also heard or read that
Mercedes was going after the company that was importing and modifying them
to curtail their business.

You need to make sure you are buying from a dealer who is officially
authorized by Mercedes. Otherwise, warranty issues may not be honored.

I've also considered buying one, just for fun. Still thinking about it.


Eisboch

On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:57:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I'll try again.

Automakers build what the consumer buys.

Eisboch

That's true up to a point but GM and Ford pigged out at the party.
They knew very well they were making much higher margins on their big
vehicles, and as a result, put way too little funding into R & D for
fuel efficiency. The handwriting has been on the wall for quite
awhile for anyone who cared to look, but GM and Ford had their head in
the sand. Is there any doubt that they could have produced high
quality efficient vehicles, similar to Toyota and Honda, if they had
put an effort into it?

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:57:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I'll try again.

Automakers build what the consumer buys.

Eisboch

That's true up to a point but GM and Ford pigged out at the party.
They knew very well they were making much higher margins on their big
vehicles, and as a result, put way too little funding into R & D for
fuel efficiency. The handwriting has been on the wall for quite
awhile for anyone who cared to look, but GM and Ford had their head in
the sand. Is there any doubt that they could have produced high
quality efficient vehicles, similar to Toyota and Honda, if they had
put an effort into it?


And Toyota and Honda have also taken a bad road. Looking at new vehicle for
SWMBO. Liked the Acura MDX. People complaining about mileage. 12-18 mpg.
Look at the new Tundra. Same size as an F150. 14 mpg highway. Toyota
Highlander Hybrid. $49k. Like the look and feel of the Saturn GreenVue.
32 mpg highway, 20+ around town. $25k. My daughter bought a new Sequoia
last year. $48k, and probably gets the same crappy mileage as the same size
Ford Expedition. About 14 around town, and 16 highway. Look at all the ads
for the Japanese cars. Touting the performance.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:RROkk.50596$nD.3370@pd7urf1no...

"Eisboch" wrote in message


Although dismal financial results, the bulk of the "losses" are write
offs and charges to re-tool for the manufacture of more smaller, fuel
efficient cars for the US market.



They have been retooling for 4 decades.

WTF.



Sounds horrible, and I am not making light of the problems, but it's not
as bad as the media (and you) are making it out to be.

Worse, bankrupt GM.

GM is toast.


I'll try again.

Automakers build what the consumer buys.

Eisboch

Can GM build these?

http://jalopnik.com/343003/the-2500-...eiled-in-india

Doubtful, they would have to price them for $25,000 not $2500. Easier to
import them. Once the India market is saturated, maybe they will. I also
hear China has a 4x4 SUV for under $10K.

I think given people are not making more, the expensive cars are over priced
Dodo birds. Because people are on to this, if I buy a GM piece of crap, why
pay the price when a Tata piece of crap will do?

GM has been out of touch too long. Looking at the Chrysler lots here in
town, I suspect Chrysler too is in deep - deep trouble. Too much expensive
inventory. And local market conditions are relatively good.

GM is just waiting for chapter 11. The time has come like computers and
TVs, to import cars as North American made is just too expensive.

The thing is, Tata has the same attitude as Henry Ford did.

Mind you, all that being said you will not get my F150 out of my hands, it
pulls the boat. Just facing the facts that most people can't afford the
expensive depreciating iron/plastics any more.

"Canuck57" wrote in
news:1IYkk.51720$nD.39029@pd7urf1no:

http://jalopnik.com/343003/the-2500-...eiled-in-india

Doubtful, they would have to price them for $25,000 not $2500. Easier
to import them. Once the India market is saturated, maybe they will.
I also hear China has a 4x4 SUV for under $10K.


The Tata Nano rollout video is on YouTube.

I think America IS ready for another Yugo-priced car. I suspect the Nano
is far better quality than the Yugo was, however. Asian cars, even the
cheapest ones, are better than what UAW slaps together, not giving a damn
about anything but paycheck.

Our corporations are the ones at fault. They built the crap, now are going
to have to eat it, too.

GM took back all the EV-1's because the DEALERS were furious it didn't need
so much SERVICE at their overpriced shops. The lucky people who road
tested them for a year loved them and begged GM to sell their cars to them.
GM said no and sent around the repo companies to steal them back when the
testers refused to turn them in.

GM is the stupidest elephant on the planet....

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

Although dismal financial results, the bulk of the "losses" are write offs
and charges to re-tool for the manufacture of more smaller, fuel efficient
cars for the US market.

Sounds horrible, and I am not making light of the problems, but it's not
as bad as the media (and you) are making it out to be.

Sounds worse actually. Posting a quarterly loss that is more than twice as
much as your market cap well, in my books is serious bankruptcy coming on.
GM's troubles are understated, and in fact it is probably too late for GM as
we know it to come back from this.

My guess is GM will be broken apart. The US side will just go bankrupt
while if GM has any profitable divisions off shore they will be bought
piecemeal by others.

Target price, $0.20 as a speculation buy.

"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:UgXkk.51647$nD.26502@pd7urf1no...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

Although dismal financial results, the bulk of the "losses" are write
offs and charges to re-tool for the manufacture of more smaller, fuel
efficient cars for the US market.

Sounds horrible, and I am not making light of the problems, but it's not
as bad as the media (and you) are making it out to be.

Sounds worse actually. Posting a quarterly loss that is more than twice
as much as your market cap well, in my books is serious bankruptcy coming
on. GM's troubles are understated, and in fact it is probably too late for
GM as we know it to come back from this.

My guess is GM will be broken apart. The US side will just go bankrupt
while if GM has any profitable divisions off shore they will be bought
piecemeal by others.

Target price, $0.20 as a speculation buy.


Time will tell.

Eisboch