"Eisboch" wrote in message
news

"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:UgXkk.51647$nD.26502@pd7urf1no...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

Although dismal financial results, the bulk of the "losses" are write
offs and charges to re-tool for the manufacture of more smaller, fuel
efficient cars for the US market.

Sounds horrible, and I am not making light of the problems, but it's not
as bad as the media (and you) are making it out to be.

Sounds worse actually. Posting a quarterly loss that is more than twice
as much as your market cap well, in my books is serious bankruptcy coming
on. GM's troubles are understated, and in fact it is probably too late
for GM as we know it to come back from this.

My guess is GM will be broken apart. The US side will just go bankrupt
while if GM has any profitable divisions off shore they will be bought
piecemeal by others.

Target price, $0.20 as a speculation buy.


Time will tell.

Eisboch

Private equity buy at say $3B?

hk wrote in news:2JudnbY7
:

General Motors Corp. (GM) posted a stunning $15.5 billion second-
quarter
net loss,

They should have told their dealers tough **** when the dealers
complained that the EV-1 was too reliable to be profitable for their
service departments. But, alas, they crushed them all, rather than give
America its first working electric car in 70 years that the people they
loaned them out to just loved. They loved them so much they followed
the repo crews around and found the storage lot their previous cars were
sent to until the salvage yards could crush them, after removing the
batteries.

This stupid company gets all it deserves. When my father died, I
inherited a 1996 Chevy Caprice Classic barge. Every time you tried to
put down the electric windows, something happened. The 30A breaker in
the panel would trip at times after a blink of all the lights and engine
computer reset. I traced that to a cut in the insulation of the HOOKUP
WIRE the damned car was completely wired with. HOOKUP WIRE! I had no
wiring harness and looked like it was wired by some kids building pedal
carts in dad's garage! The wires were simply wrapped in vinyl electric
tape, loosely, and laid against the sharp, BARE, UNPAINTED metal edges
the doors and anyplace the customer couldn't readily see, was made of.
The cheap thermoplastic simply wore through and shorted the circuit to
ground.

TWO other times, the windows simply fell out of their tracks into the
bottom of the door. Taking the doors apart revealed the scissors jacks
the windows ran up and down on, that looked like those punching jokes
out of an old movie, probably where GM's "engineers" got the idea in
1947, were made with plastic parts that MELTED IN THE PARKING LOT!
Nylon costs too much money to put in the flagship of the Chevy fleet.
We used cheap thermoplastic that melts around 150F. I emailed GM hoping
there was some kind of update parts made of nylon or better stuff. I
have the GM email which said:

"Dear Mr. Butler,

Thank you for contacting the Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center. We
appreciate you taking the time to write us in regards to your 1996
vehicle.

I'm sorry that the runners are warping and your windows are falling out.
If replacing your vehicle is not an option, I suggest keeping it shaded.

Try parking under cover or in the shade as much as possible. You may
want
to invest in a cover for your vehicle to prevent direct exposure to the
sun.

If you should need to contact us in the future, simply reply to this
message or call our Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center at
1-800-222-1020. Customer Relationship Specialists are available Monday
through Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m., Eastern Time.

Again, thank you for contacting Chevrolet.

Sincerely,

The Chevrolet Consumer Support Team"

This is the EXACT text of the stored email on my hard drive. I kid you
not, they wanted me to PARK IT IN THE SHADE!

I hope GM goes completely bankrupt and Toyota, or some Japanese company
with more sane people running it, takes over the plants to build TINY
cars that get 80mpg and TINY trucks testosterone-charged American males
are going to have to learn to live with, now that they've come to the
realization they can no longer afford to drive those Chevy penis
extension pickups with the 500hp engines to the shop for constant
repairs.

GM can kiss my ass......(c;

"Larry" wrote in message
...
hk wrote in news:2JudnbY7
:

General Motors Corp. (GM) posted a stunning $15.5 billion second-
quarter
net loss,

They should have told their dealers tough **** when the dealers
complained that the EV-1 was too reliable to be profitable for their
service departments. But, alas, they crushed them all, rather than give
America its first working electric car in 70 years that the people they
loaned them out to just loved. They loved them so much they followed
the repo crews around and found the storage lot their previous cars were
sent to until the salvage yards could crush them, after removing the
batteries.

This stupid company gets all it deserves. When my father died, I
inherited a 1996 Chevy Caprice Classic barge. Every time you tried to
put down the electric windows, something happened. The 30A breaker in
the panel would trip at times after a blink of all the lights and engine
computer reset. I traced that to a cut in the insulation of the HOOKUP
WIRE the damned car was completely wired with. HOOKUP WIRE! I had no
wiring harness and looked like it was wired by some kids building pedal
carts in dad's garage! The wires were simply wrapped in vinyl electric
tape, loosely, and laid against the sharp, BARE, UNPAINTED metal edges
the doors and anyplace the customer couldn't readily see, was made of.
The cheap thermoplastic simply wore through and shorted the circuit to
ground.

TWO other times, the windows simply fell out of their tracks into the
bottom of the door. Taking the doors apart revealed the scissors jacks
the windows ran up and down on, that looked like those punching jokes
out of an old movie, probably where GM's "engineers" got the idea in
1947, were made with plastic parts that MELTED IN THE PARKING LOT!
Nylon costs too much money to put in the flagship of the Chevy fleet.
We used cheap thermoplastic that melts around 150F. I emailed GM hoping
there was some kind of update parts made of nylon or better stuff. I
have the GM email which said:

"Dear Mr. Butler,

Thank you for contacting the Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center. We
appreciate you taking the time to write us in regards to your 1996
vehicle.

I'm sorry that the runners are warping and your windows are falling out.
If replacing your vehicle is not an option, I suggest keeping it shaded.

Try parking under cover or in the shade as much as possible. You may
want
to invest in a cover for your vehicle to prevent direct exposure to the
sun.

If you should need to contact us in the future, simply reply to this
message or call our Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center at
1-800-222-1020. Customer Relationship Specialists are available Monday
through Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m., Eastern Time.

Again, thank you for contacting Chevrolet.

Sincerely,

The Chevrolet Consumer Support Team"

This is the EXACT text of the stored email on my hard drive. I kid you
not, they wanted me to PARK IT IN THE SHADE!

I hope GM goes completely bankrupt and Toyota, or some Japanese company
with more sane people running it, takes over the plants to build TINY
cars that get 80mpg and TINY trucks testosterone-charged American males
are going to have to learn to live with, now that they've come to the
realization they can no longer afford to drive those Chevy penis
extension pickups with the 500hp engines to the shop for constant
repairs.

GM can kiss my ass......(c;




Well, there goes another happy customer.

"Hook-up" wire? No wiring harnesses? Come on Larry. Fess up. Who
"re-wired" your car?

Eisboch

Larry wrote:
hk wrote in news:2JudnbY7
:

General Motors Corp. (GM) posted a stunning $15.5 billion second-
quarter
net loss,

They should have told their dealers tough **** when the dealers
complained that the EV-1 was too reliable to be profitable for their
service departments. But, alas, they crushed them all, rather than give
America its first working electric car in 70 years that the people they
loaned them out to just loved. They loved them so much they followed
the repo crews around and found the storage lot their previous cars were
sent to until the salvage yards could crush them, after removing the
batteries.

This stupid company gets all it deserves. When my father died, I
inherited a 1996 Chevy Caprice Classic barge. Every time you tried to
put down the electric windows, something happened. The 30A breaker in
the panel would trip at times after a blink of all the lights and engine
computer reset. I traced that to a cut in the insulation of the HOOKUP
WIRE the damned car was completely wired with. HOOKUP WIRE! I had no
wiring harness and looked like it was wired by some kids building pedal
carts in dad's garage! The wires were simply wrapped in vinyl electric
tape, loosely, and laid against the sharp, BARE, UNPAINTED metal edges
the doors and anyplace the customer couldn't readily see, was made of.
The cheap thermoplastic simply wore through and shorted the circuit to
ground.

TWO other times, the windows simply fell out of their tracks into the
bottom of the door. Taking the doors apart revealed the scissors jacks
the windows ran up and down on, that looked like those punching jokes
out of an old movie, probably where GM's "engineers" got the idea in
1947, were made with plastic parts that MELTED IN THE PARKING LOT!
Nylon costs too much money to put in the flagship of the Chevy fleet.
We used cheap thermoplastic that melts around 150F. I emailed GM hoping
there was some kind of update parts made of nylon or better stuff. I
have the GM email which said:

"Dear Mr. Butler,

Thank you for contacting the Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center. We
appreciate you taking the time to write us in regards to your 1996
vehicle.

I'm sorry that the runners are warping and your windows are falling out.
If replacing your vehicle is not an option, I suggest keeping it shaded.

Try parking under cover or in the shade as much as possible. You may
want
to invest in a cover for your vehicle to prevent direct exposure to the
sun.

If you should need to contact us in the future, simply reply to this
message or call our Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center at
1-800-222-1020. Customer Relationship Specialists are available Monday
through Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m., Eastern Time.

Again, thank you for contacting Chevrolet.

Sincerely,

The Chevrolet Consumer Support Team"

This is the EXACT text of the stored email on my hard drive. I kid you
not, they wanted me to PARK IT IN THE SHADE!

I hope GM goes completely bankrupt and Toyota, or some Japanese company
with more sane people running it, takes over the plants to build TINY
cars that get 80mpg and TINY trucks testosterone-charged American males
are going to have to learn to live with, now that they've come to the
realization they can no longer afford to drive those Chevy penis
extension pickups with the 500hp engines to the shop for constant
repairs.

GM can kiss my ass......(c;




Interesting. BTW, the problems you've outlined here are the result of
"management" decisions, not the decisions of the guys on the assembly
line. If you've ever been in a major league auto plant, you'd know that
*all* decisions are made by supervisors, not the work force. So, using
plastic instead of nylon was a management decision, and not insulting
the wires properly was a management decision.

In contrast, I just a message indicating a nylon/stainless clamp on my
Japanese outboard "might" fail, and there is now an all-stainless steel
clamp available that will be fitted the motor at my next service visit
at no cost to me. The clamp isn't even related to anything critical.

Apparently the management at Yamaha is a bit more attuned to customers
than to paying that 25-cent quarterly dividend. Oh...I'm not claiming
that the Japanese outboards are "flawless," nor are the companies that
produce them.

LOL.

I too, GM can kiss my @$$. So can Chrysler. Anyone notice their dealers
too have their lots full? Too full actually? That is a lot of depreciating
plastic inventory out there.


"Larry" wrote in message
...
hk wrote in news:2JudnbY7
:

General Motors Corp. (GM) posted a stunning $15.5 billion second-
quarter
net loss,

They should have told their dealers tough **** when the dealers
complained that the EV-1 was too reliable to be profitable for their
service departments. But, alas, they crushed them all, rather than give
America its first working electric car in 70 years that the people they
loaned them out to just loved. They loved them so much they followed
the repo crews around and found the storage lot their previous cars were
sent to until the salvage yards could crush them, after removing the
batteries.

This stupid company gets all it deserves. When my father died, I
inherited a 1996 Chevy Caprice Classic barge. Every time you tried to
put down the electric windows, something happened. The 30A breaker in
the panel would trip at times after a blink of all the lights and engine
computer reset. I traced that to a cut in the insulation of the HOOKUP
WIRE the damned car was completely wired with. HOOKUP WIRE! I had no
wiring harness and looked like it was wired by some kids building pedal
carts in dad's garage! The wires were simply wrapped in vinyl electric
tape, loosely, and laid against the sharp, BARE, UNPAINTED metal edges
the doors and anyplace the customer couldn't readily see, was made of.
The cheap thermoplastic simply wore through and shorted the circuit to
ground.

TWO other times, the windows simply fell out of their tracks into the
bottom of the door. Taking the doors apart revealed the scissors jacks
the windows ran up and down on, that looked like those punching jokes
out of an old movie, probably where GM's "engineers" got the idea in
1947, were made with plastic parts that MELTED IN THE PARKING LOT!
Nylon costs too much money to put in the flagship of the Chevy fleet.
We used cheap thermoplastic that melts around 150F. I emailed GM hoping
there was some kind of update parts made of nylon or better stuff. I
have the GM email which said:

"Dear Mr. Butler,

Thank you for contacting the Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center. We
appreciate you taking the time to write us in regards to your 1996
vehicle.

I'm sorry that the runners are warping and your windows are falling out.
If replacing your vehicle is not an option, I suggest keeping it shaded.

Try parking under cover or in the shade as much as possible. You may
want
to invest in a cover for your vehicle to prevent direct exposure to the
sun.

If you should need to contact us in the future, simply reply to this
message or call our Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center at
1-800-222-1020. Customer Relationship Specialists are available Monday
through Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m., Eastern Time.

Again, thank you for contacting Chevrolet.

Sincerely,

The Chevrolet Consumer Support Team"

This is the EXACT text of the stored email on my hard drive. I kid you
not, they wanted me to PARK IT IN THE SHADE!

I hope GM goes completely bankrupt and Toyota, or some Japanese company
with more sane people running it, takes over the plants to build TINY
cars that get 80mpg and TINY trucks testosterone-charged American males
are going to have to learn to live with, now that they've come to the
realization they can no longer afford to drive those Chevy penis
extension pickups with the 500hp engines to the shop for constant
repairs.

GM can kiss my ass......(c;

"hk" wrote in message
. ..

GM shares fell more than 7% in premarket trading to $10.20.

Surprising it was that little. They lost almost twice their market cap.

Anyone taking shorts on $2?

GM's Latin American operation was a bright spot - profit rose to $445
million from $296 million. But Asia swung to loss and European profits
tumbled 94%.

I would branch out and buy GMSA, they don't have lethargic management and
union up the but (yet). But then again, cancer does travel.

Excluding charges, the North American business had a $4.3 billion loss as
revenue dropped by one-third to $19.8 billion, pushing market share down
to 20.2% from 22.7%.

Wait until next quarter.

Good luck Ontario CAW/US UAW GM. Time has arrived for payment. Management
has let you idiots go so long in a fantasy, there is no hope now. GM is
spining down the toilet so fast that no one sees it. Chrysler down, GM
spinning and Ford working on keeping up. The auto business, just waiting
for someone to shoot it.

At least if I buy a Tata Nano for $4000 I know I am getting a cheap car.

"Canuck57" wrote in news:IQOkk.50593$nD.27486
@pd7urf1no:

At least if I buy a Tata Nano for $4000 I know I am getting a cheap car.



Dave, do they have Nanos in Canada, yet?

I'm seriously considering flying to Canada to buy a Smart ForTwo DIESEL
they won't sell me in South Carolina. I found out I can import it as it is
on the EPA list of excluded cars way back to 2004 Smart Cars so bringing it
home isn't a problem.

They sure don't lose their value very much. Used 2005 Smart Diesels are
$CN12000 in Toronto.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Canuck57" wrote in news:IQOkk.50593$nD.27486
@pd7urf1no:

At least if I buy a Tata Nano for $4000 I know I am getting a cheap car.



Dave, do they have Nanos in Canada, yet?

Haven't seen them yet. But Canada once had the Lada from Russia so I expect
maybe someday. With all the green hype, and big 3 over pricing in the
Canadian market I bet the people are asking.

We do have "SmartCars". Over priced too. See them for 2 seasons a year.
Trouble with any of these mini cars, add -30C and 8" of snow and they stay
in the garage until spring.

I'm seriously considering flying to Canada to buy a Smart ForTwo DIESEL
they won't sell me in South Carolina. I found out I can import it as it
is
on the EPA list of excluded cars way back to 2004 Smart Cars so bringing
it
home isn't a problem.

You might be able to get a used one cheap if you go to the snow areas. Many
buy them, then discover the heaters are no good in winter as is the
traction.

Each year we do our Christmas shopping in Montana as many Canadians do.
Last December the only people who got home on time were 4x4 and trucks. A
friend with a Vette and hybrid eco type contraption had to stay in Great
Falls for 3 unanticipated days. Both now have a 4x4.

They sure don't lose their value very much. Used 2005 Smart Diesels are
$CN12000 in Toronto.

If it was in ace shape, offer them $9 or 10K? Also consider Winnipeg.

Canadians are just figuring it out, while it is nice to have one vehicle
that is "green" and efficient, the other still needs to be a 4x4 V8 or V6.
Where I live, every 3rd vehicle is a truck, SUT or SUV. They don't plough
my road in winter and only see the Smart Car up the road from May to early
November. Makes more sense in SC, nice state BTW.

"Canuck57" wrote in
news:xcZkk.154620$gc5.54872@pd7urf2no:

If it was in ace shape, offer them $9 or 10K? Also consider Winnipeg.

Canadians are just figuring it out, while it is nice to have one
vehicle that is "green" and efficient, the other still needs to be a
4x4 V8 or V6. Where I live, every 3rd vehicle is a truck, SUT or SUV.
They don't plough my road in winter and only see the Smart Car up the
road from May to early November. Makes more sense in SC, nice state
BTW.



Thanks for the advise. I didn't think of the snow problem. Here, it's the
heat. I have a remote sensor digital thermometer on the intake of my AC
unit where it can actually measure the air, not the radiation. It's
reading 92.8F at 1PM and I live on the river which cools the place off a
bit. In the parking lot at the mall, crowded today by an annual back to
school even the state runs called "Tax Free Weekend", where the sales tax
machine is turned off for ONLY A FEW items kids need for school making the
parking lot full, it will be 50C outside and 70C inside those locked up
cars! Air conditioning is to South Carolinians like snow tires and tire
chains are to Canadians....(c;

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Canuck57" wrote in
news:xcZkk.154620$gc5.54872@pd7urf2no:

If it was in ace shape, offer them $9 or 10K? Also consider Winnipeg.

Canadians are just figuring it out, while it is nice to have one
vehicle that is "green" and efficient, the other still needs to be a
4x4 V8 or V6. Where I live, every 3rd vehicle is a truck, SUT or SUV.
They don't plough my road in winter and only see the Smart Car up the
road from May to early November. Makes more sense in SC, nice state
BTW.



Thanks for the advise. I didn't think of the snow problem. Here, it's
the
heat. I have a remote sensor digital thermometer on the intake of my AC
unit where it can actually measure the air, not the radiation. It's
reading 92.8F at 1PM and I live on the river which cools the place off a
bit. In the parking lot at the mall, crowded today by an annual back to
school even the state runs called "Tax Free Weekend", where the sales tax
machine is turned off for ONLY A FEW items kids need for school making the
parking lot full, it will be 50C outside and 70C inside those locked up
cars! Air conditioning is to South Carolinians like snow tires and tire
chains are to Canadians....(c;

Have no idea how the A/C works in them. I have one in my F150, and really
only need it for 15 days a year. But nice to have for more. Sort of the
opposite problem. But my guess is the A/C, if they have it can't be too
good, but maybe good enough to make it liveable.

Might want to rent one for 2 to 3 days.