I.R.A.Q

Inevitable
Replay of
Asian
Quagmire

Viet Nam II. :-(




This is dramatic and groundless. Every time an American soldier dies abroad
someone chimes in calling it a quagmire. Wait and see what happens. No one
knows how it will turn out, and that includes you.

"Chris" wrote in message
...

I.R.A.Q

Inevitable
Replay of
Asian
Quagmire

Viet Nam II. :-(


This is dramatic and groundless. Every time an American soldier dies
abroad
someone chimes in calling it a quagmire. Wait and see what happens. No
one
knows how it will turn out, and that includes you.

While that may have been dramatic, at least South Vietnam had some
underpinnings of and a modest desire for democracy. Iraq is a land of
feudal warlords and fundamentalists who will rip and rend the country into
territories and factions once they've been given their "freedom."

This is like bailing against a tide, it's futile and a waste of precious
resources -- resources America is very thin on these days. England
attempted this little Iraq escapade in the early part of the 20th century
with predictable results. History, in this case, is bound to repeat itself.

You may want to wait for the outcome and we'll all have to, for many of us
the writing is already on the wall.

While that may have been dramatic, at least South Vietnam had some
underpinnings of and a modest desire for democracy. Iraq is a land of
feudal warlords and fundamentalists who will rip and rend the country into
territories and factions once they've been given their "freedom."

People are people, and all want to be free.

This is dramatic and groundless. Every time an American soldier dies abroad
someone chimes in calling it a quagmire. Wait and see what happens. No one
knows how it will turn out, and that includes you.

Nobody has an "exit" strategy for Iraq, and that includes Bush.

People are people, and all want to be free.

In acutality, "freedom" is a long way from the top of the food chain. If you
have nowhere to live, nothing to eat, no medical care, and no hope "freedom" is
a ridiculous luxury. Democracy works best in a country where basic needs have
been met, the populace is at least moderately educated and literate, and
without long traditions of internal warfare. People must be willing to
compromise for the common good if Democracy is going to succeed.

We now say it's our goal to establish a Democracy in Iraq. We'll need a lot of
luck- less fertile ground has seldom been encountered.

"Joe" wrote in message ...
While that may have been dramatic, at least South Vietnam had some
underpinnings of and a modest desire for democracy. Iraq is a land of
feudal warlords and fundamentalists who will rip and rend the country into
territories and factions once they've been given their "freedom."

People are people, and all want to be free.

Yes, but not all people in the world want republican/christian
repressiveness shoved down their throats.

Is that what is bothering you, did a Christian knock on your door and try to
shove his politics and religion down your throat? I could not figure out
why you had a chip on your shoulder, now I understand.

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Joe" wrote in message
...
While that may have been dramatic, at least South Vietnam had some
underpinnings of and a modest desire for democracy. Iraq is a land of
feudal warlords and fundamentalists who will rip and rend the country
into
territories and factions once they've been given their "freedom."

People are people, and all want to be free.

Yes, but not all people in the world want republican/christian
repressiveness shoved down their throats.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Read the paper much Chuck? The Bush administration has asked for the UN to
get
involved in the peace keeping efforts in Iraq, with most of the US troops
withdrawn
within 2 years.

The effort will of course be thwarted by France and Germany.

Must be a different paper than you read.
I see where Bush's request for assistance is conditional: The UN must
acknowledge that the US is the sole, supreme, and final decision maker on all
matters having to do with Iraq and all troops will be under US, not UN command.

Of course it is conditional. Why should we have the UN lead the effort? Based on the
way they handled things before the war we would be crazy to have them in charge with
this initiative.

Funny, first you complain that there there is no plan. A plan is developed and you
complain about *it*.

There is no pleasing you Chuck.


How could we possibly get out in two years if we have a coalition force to
command? If our GI's take off their camo helmets and put on blue ones instead,
are we suddenly "out of Iraq"?

I never said the plan called for a full withdrawal of troops. I said most would be
withdrawn. I guess you somehow missed that.


Would that be the same France and Germany which told Bush "We will not join
your invasion to search for weapons of mass destruction, we're not at all
convinced these weapons exist and we prefer to persue the matter through the
United Nations"? The same France and Germany which were insulted, publicly, by
almost every right winger in the US-from the highest levels of the State
Department to truck stop waitresses renaming French Fries on the menu?

Yes, the same France and Germany who were selling weapons and goods to Iraq. That
would be them Chuck.

Every right winger? When are you going to stop with the generalizations? And why are
you so bitter all the time?


Odd. 90-days ago, the UN was "irrelevant."
How quickly things can change.

Nothing has changed. They remain irrelevant as far as decision making goes. But they
are relevant in their ability to serve as a neutral entity to join the peace keeping
forces as one.

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 18:47:44 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:

Of course it is conditional. Why should we have the UN lead the effort? Based on the
way they handled things before the war we would be crazy to have them in charge with
this initiative.

It was the UN who mishandled things before the war? Some would
disagree:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A "brutally honest" report prepared for the
U.S. military Joint Chiefs of Staff blames post-war unrest in Iraq on
hurried, inadequate planning before the invasion, defense officials
said on Wednesday.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Funny, first you complain that there there is no plan. A plan is developed
and you
complain about *it*.

Hollerin' to the UN for help is not a "plan."

How do you know? Have you read it?



The same France and Germany which were insulted, publicly, by
almost every right winger in the US-

Every right winger? When are you going to stop with the generalizations?

Soon as you develop an appreciation for the quantifier "almost"?

Yes, you got me there. A brain fart. My mistake. Sorry.

See, it is not too hard to admit when you are wrong, now is it Chuck?


And why are
you so bitter all the time?


I'm not. You mistake dismay for bitterness.
Subtle but important difference.

No, I see it as being bitter, as I am sure many other readers do. Take a step back and
see how you are coming across in many of your political posts....anger and bitterness.




Odd. 90-days ago, the UN was "irrelevant."
How quickly things can change.

Nothing has changed. They remain irrelevant as far as decision making goes.
But they
are relevant in their ability to serve as a neutral entity to join the peace
keeping
forces as one.

Got it. "Y'all cain't be trusted to water a hog and ya must come over here on
our terms and acknowledge that the interests and policies of the US are
superior to the interests and policies of the UN. Y'all get your ragged
socialist asses over here and absorb some of this heah fire to protect the
American troops, OK?"

Yep. That is all the UN is good for now. To collect the troops. Got it?


Where will the very short line of eager responders form?



There are plenty of nations who will readily acknowledge what we have done to curb
terrorism and step in to do their part, except of course for Germany and France.

Iraq is the last holding ground for terrorists. It is not the citizens fighting
against us now (the majority now appreciate our efforts), it is terrorists from around
the world pouring into the country to take a last stand...if they lose this, they
lost. This is their "Gunfight at the OK Corral". And they will lose. Trust me.

And how about that economy Gould? All indicators show a rebound. The results should
be positively fantastic by election time next year. Don't ya' just love it!