On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:48:33 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III" "Reggie is
Here wrote:

HK wrote:
wrote:



And quite frankly, his post about building dinghys and such in his
dad's shops does not square with the impressions he has given in the
past. I tend to doubt he has ever built a boat.... But that is just my
opinion based on things he has said that would somewhat exclude him
for a group of folks who I think understand construction and
implementation of the tool... beyond what he has read. I also suspect
he was typical dock rat, hanging around his dad's marina hoping to
pick up some of the leftovers from the boarders... Anyone remember
those little assh**es?


We built dinghies that looked very much like yours, and rowboats that
were somewhat more stout. Sold them for a couple of hundred dollars to
boaters who wanted something cheap to use to row from the marina dock
out to their mooring. We had a very small assembly line out in a metal
storage shed. The frames were cut out, and then the hullsides, bottoms,
et cetera, were cut using patterns out of sheets of marine ply. It
wasn't rocket science then, and it certainly isn't now.

Those who wanted a tow-behind dink usually ended up buying one of Dyer's
offerings, not a plywood tippydoodle. If the buyer wanted a more robust
rowboat, Dad had factory-made dories and rowboats that were suitable.

There isn't a boat you built on your website I would have taken out of a
small cove on Long Island Sound, unless, of course, I had a death wish.

My father didn't allow liveaboarders at his marina. Couple of nights, a
long weekend, fine. No longer. In those days, everyone seemed to
appreciate that. There weren't many rules at the marina, but the ones
there were were posted and enforced.




As I said, he did it bigger and better.

Yeah, but he does have a loyal following here, you know.
--
John H

John H. wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:48:33 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III" "Reggie is
Here wrote:

HK wrote:
wrote:


And quite frankly, his post about building dinghys and such in his
dad's shops does not square with the impressions he has given in the
past. I tend to doubt he has ever built a boat.... But that is just my
opinion based on things he has said that would somewhat exclude him
for a group of folks who I think understand construction and
implementation of the tool... beyond what he has read. I also suspect
he was typical dock rat, hanging around his dad's marina hoping to
pick up some of the leftovers from the boarders... Anyone remember
those little assh**es?

We built dinghies that looked very much like yours, and rowboats that
were somewhat more stout. Sold them for a couple of hundred dollars to
boaters who wanted something cheap to use to row from the marina dock
out to their mooring. We had a very small assembly line out in a metal
storage shed. The frames were cut out, and then the hullsides, bottoms,
et cetera, were cut using patterns out of sheets of marine ply. It
wasn't rocket science then, and it certainly isn't now.

Those who wanted a tow-behind dink usually ended up buying one of Dyer's
offerings, not a plywood tippydoodle. If the buyer wanted a more robust
rowboat, Dad had factory-made dories and rowboats that were suitable.

There isn't a boat you built on your website I would have taken out of a
small cove on Long Island Sound, unless, of course, I had a death wish.

My father didn't allow liveaboarders at his marina. Couple of nights, a
long weekend, fine. No longer. In those days, everyone seemed to
appreciate that. There weren't many rules at the marina, but the ones
there were were posted and enforced.



As I said, he did it bigger and better.

Yeah, but he does have a loyal following here, you know

Just because someone does not confront someone, does not mean they agree
or believe what they say. Some people prefer to ignore negative behavior.

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 16:16:34 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III" "Reggie is
Here wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:48:33 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III" "Reggie is
Here wrote:

HK wrote:
wrote:


And quite frankly, his post about building dinghys and such in his
dad's shops does not square with the impressions he has given in the
past. I tend to doubt he has ever built a boat.... But that is just my
opinion based on things he has said that would somewhat exclude him
for a group of folks who I think understand construction and
implementation of the tool... beyond what he has read. I also suspect
he was typical dock rat, hanging around his dad's marina hoping to
pick up some of the leftovers from the boarders... Anyone remember
those little assh**es?

We built dinghies that looked very much like yours, and rowboats that
were somewhat more stout. Sold them for a couple of hundred dollars to
boaters who wanted something cheap to use to row from the marina dock
out to their mooring. We had a very small assembly line out in a metal
storage shed. The frames were cut out, and then the hullsides, bottoms,
et cetera, were cut using patterns out of sheets of marine ply. It
wasn't rocket science then, and it certainly isn't now.

Those who wanted a tow-behind dink usually ended up buying one of Dyer's
offerings, not a plywood tippydoodle. If the buyer wanted a more robust
rowboat, Dad had factory-made dories and rowboats that were suitable.

There isn't a boat you built on your website I would have taken out of a
small cove on Long Island Sound, unless, of course, I had a death wish.

My father didn't allow liveaboarders at his marina. Couple of nights, a
long weekend, fine. No longer. In those days, everyone seemed to
appreciate that. There weren't many rules at the marina, but the ones
there were were posted and enforced.



As I said, he did it bigger and better.

Yeah, but he does have a loyal following here, you know

Just because someone does not confront someone, does not mean they agree
or believe what they say. Some people prefer to ignore negative behavior.


I said 'following'.

But you're correct, some people prefer to ignore negative behavior. From
what I hear, it happens a lot on the New York subways. But every now and
then someone will take a stand.
--
John H

wrote:
On Jan 5, 12:05 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 11:50:24 -0500, HK wrote:
We built dinghies that looked very much like yours, and rowboats that
were somewhat more stout.
How many did you actually build by yourself ?

I'm guessing zero.





In a word Harry, you know just about zip with regards to boat
building, and you have incredible gall denigrating the skills of
others. Get a life.

Well, probably a little off. In the 50's you could get a locally built
boat like a Brockway, say 16 to 20 feet for a few hundred dollars,
Dynamite Payson sold prams up in Maine for probably 50-75 dollars...

Of course, I was only born in 58 so I am taking it from the old salts
that I have run into over the years..


He's not even right about okoume. It is a relatively weak wood, and
subject to rot. It's use in kit boats came about because the world
supply of real mahogany, a stronger, more rot-resistant wood, got tight
and the resulting marine mahogany ply, became much too expensive and
scarce for boatbuilders. What's really sad is that many purveyors of
okoume claim the product they are selling is mahogany ply, but it ain't.

I'm pretty sure my dad spec'd 3/8" thick *mahogany* marine ply on the
small boats the shop turned out. He used cedar, too. No "sewn together"
boats, either. The boats the shop fiberglassed were built with different
"skins."

Here's a reference you might like...the Stur-Dee dory site. My father
did business with the founder and owner, Ernie Gavin, for at least 25
years. If you look on the "history" page, you'll see a reference to
16-foot dories Stur-Dee built and sold in the mid 1950s for $195:

http://www.stur-deeboat.com/history.htm


"The atmosphere at Stur-Dee speaks of the 1950s. In the once, there is
no computer, fax machine or push-button phone. Ernie Gavin believes a
rotary phone and the postal service are sufficient means of
communicating. Shelves are filled with dusty books on such subjects as
history and evolution – Gavin is a voracious reader. Logbooks with
transactions dating back to 1954 also can be found on the shelves.

"Gavin grabbed the 1964 edition, blew a thick layer of dust off it and
turned to a page filled with scribbled notes that only he could
decipher. One transaction, the sale of a 16-foot dory was for $195."


And, because it bears repeating, once again, the misinformation from WhineB:

"No one in the 50s or 60s could afford to build a wooden boat bigger
than 7 ft for $200, even using the cheapest materials. Nowadays a
sheet of good Okume sells for $200, and fyi, Okume is about as good as
it gets for marine plywood. It is light, strong and highly rot
resistant. Many racing hydroplanes have been built from it, and other
lightweight high performance boats."

Have a nice day.







--
George W. Bush - the 43rd Best President Ever!

Whatever you say Harry....

--Mike

"HK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Jan 5, 12:05 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 11:50:24 -0500, HK wrote:
We built dinghies that looked very much like yours, and rowboats that
were somewhat more stout.
How many did you actually build by yourself ?

I'm guessing zero.





In a word Harry, you know just about zip with regards to boat
building, and you have incredible gall denigrating the skills of
others. Get a life.

Well, probably a little off. In the 50's you could get a locally built
boat like a Brockway, say 16 to 20 feet for a few hundred dollars,
Dynamite Payson sold prams up in Maine for probably 50-75 dollars...

Of course, I was only born in 58 so I am taking it from the old salts
that I have run into over the years..


He's not even right about okoume. It is a relatively weak wood, and
subject to rot. It's use in kit boats came about because the world supply
of real mahogany, a stronger, more rot-resistant wood, got tight and the
resulting marine mahogany ply, became much too expensive and scarce for
boatbuilders. What's really sad is that many purveyors of okoume claim the
product they are selling is mahogany ply, but it ain't.

I'm pretty sure my dad spec'd 3/8" thick *mahogany* marine ply on the
small boats the shop turned out. He used cedar, too. No "sewn together"
boats, either. The boats the shop fiberglassed were built with different
"skins."

Here's a reference you might like...the Stur-Dee dory site. My father did
business with the founder and owner, Ernie Gavin, for at least 25 years.
If you look on the "history" page, you'll see a reference to 16-foot
dories Stur-Dee built and sold in the mid 1950s for $195:

http://www.stur-deeboat.com/history.htm


"The atmosphere at Stur-Dee speaks of the 1950s. In the once, there is no
computer, fax machine or push-button phone. Ernie Gavin believes a rotary
phone and the postal service are sufficient means of communicating.
Shelves are filled with dusty books on such subjects as history and
evolution – Gavin is a voracious reader. Logbooks with transactions dating
back to 1954 also can be found on the shelves.

"Gavin grabbed the 1964 edition, blew a thick layer of dust off it and
turned to a page filled with scribbled notes that only he could decipher.
One transaction, the sale of a 16-foot dory was for $195."


And, because it bears repeating, once again, the misinformation from
WhineB:

"No one in the 50s or 60s could afford to build a wooden boat bigger
than 7 ft for $200, even using the cheapest materials. Nowadays a
sheet of good Okume sells for $200, and fyi, Okume is about as good as
it gets for marine plywood. It is light, strong and highly rot
resistant. Many racing hydroplanes have been built from it, and other
lightweight high performance boats."

Have a nice day.







--
George W. Bush - the 43rd Best President Ever!

"HK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Jan 5, 12:05 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 11:50:24 -0500, HK wrote:
We built dinghies that looked very much like yours, and rowboats that
were somewhat more stout.
How many did you actually build by yourself ?

I'm guessing zero.





In a word Harry, you know just about zip with regards to boat
building, and you have incredible gall denigrating the skills of
others. Get a life.

Well, probably a little off. In the 50's you could get a locally built
boat like a Brockway, say 16 to 20 feet for a few hundred dollars,
Dynamite Payson sold prams up in Maine for probably 50-75 dollars...

Of course, I was only born in 58 so I am taking it from the old salts
that I have run into over the years..


He's not even right about okoume. It is a relatively weak wood, and
subject to rot. It's use in kit boats came about because the world supply
of real mahogany, a stronger, more rot-resistant wood, got tight and the
resulting marine mahogany ply, became much too expensive and scarce for
boatbuilders. What's really sad is that many purveyors of okoume claim the
product they are selling is mahogany ply, but it ain't.

I'm pretty sure my dad spec'd 3/8" thick *mahogany* marine ply on the
small boats the shop turned out. He used cedar, too. No "sewn together"
boats, either. The boats the shop fiberglassed were built with different
"skins."

Here's a reference you might like...the Stur-Dee dory site. My father did
business with the founder and owner, Ernie Gavin, for at least 25 years.
If you look on the "history" page, you'll see a reference to 16-foot
dories Stur-Dee built and sold in the mid 1950s for $195:

http://www.stur-deeboat.com/history.htm


"The atmosphere at Stur-Dee speaks of the 1950s. In the once, there is no
computer, fax machine or push-button phone. Ernie Gavin believes a rotary
phone and the postal service are sufficient means of communicating.
Shelves are filled with dusty books on such subjects as history and
evolution – Gavin is a voracious reader. Logbooks with transactions dating
back to 1954 also can be found on the shelves.

"Gavin grabbed the 1964 edition, blew a thick layer of dust off it and
turned to a page filled with scribbled notes that only he could decipher.
One transaction, the sale of a 16-foot dory was for $195."


And, because it bears repeating, once again, the misinformation from
WhineB:

"No one in the 50s or 60s could afford to build a wooden boat bigger
than 7 ft for $200, even using the cheapest materials. Nowadays a
sheet of good Okume sells for $200, and fyi, Okume is about as good as
it gets for marine plywood. It is light, strong and highly rot
resistant. Many racing hydroplanes have been built from it, and other
lightweight high performance boats."

Have a nice day.


Up to 7 or 8 years ago a local guy out on the Bedford Highway advertised 8'
plywood prams for $245.00.

Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Jan 5, 12:05 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 11:50:24 -0500, HK wrote:
We built dinghies that looked very much like yours, and rowboats that
were somewhat more stout.
How many did you actually build by yourself ?

I'm guessing zero.



In a word Harry, you know just about zip with regards to boat
building, and you have incredible gall denigrating the skills of
others. Get a life.
Well, probably a little off. In the 50's you could get a locally built
boat like a Brockway, say 16 to 20 feet for a few hundred dollars,
Dynamite Payson sold prams up in Maine for probably 50-75 dollars...

Of course, I was only born in 58 so I am taking it from the old salts
that I have run into over the years..

He's not even right about okoume. It is a relatively weak wood, and
subject to rot. It's use in kit boats came about because the world supply
of real mahogany, a stronger, more rot-resistant wood, got tight and the
resulting marine mahogany ply, became much too expensive and scarce for
boatbuilders. What's really sad is that many purveyors of okoume claim the
product they are selling is mahogany ply, but it ain't.

I'm pretty sure my dad spec'd 3/8" thick *mahogany* marine ply on the
small boats the shop turned out. He used cedar, too. No "sewn together"
boats, either. The boats the shop fiberglassed were built with different
"skins."

Here's a reference you might like...the Stur-Dee dory site. My father did
business with the founder and owner, Ernie Gavin, for at least 25 years.
If you look on the "history" page, you'll see a reference to 16-foot
dories Stur-Dee built and sold in the mid 1950s for $195:

http://www.stur-deeboat.com/history.htm


"The atmosphere at Stur-Dee speaks of the 1950s. In the once, there is no
computer, fax machine or push-button phone. Ernie Gavin believes a rotary
phone and the postal service are sufficient means of communicating.
Shelves are filled with dusty books on such subjects as history and
evolution – Gavin is a voracious reader. Logbooks with transactions dating
back to 1954 also can be found on the shelves.

"Gavin grabbed the 1964 edition, blew a thick layer of dust off it and
turned to a page filled with scribbled notes that only he could decipher.
One transaction, the sale of a 16-foot dory was for $195."


And, because it bears repeating, once again, the misinformation from
WhineB:

"No one in the 50s or 60s could afford to build a wooden boat bigger
than 7 ft for $200, even using the cheapest materials. Nowadays a
sheet of good Okume sells for $200, and fyi, Okume is about as good as
it gets for marine plywood. It is light, strong and highly rot
resistant. Many racing hydroplanes have been built from it, and other
lightweight high performance boats."

Have a nice day.


Up to 7 or 8 years ago a local guy out on the Bedford Highway advertised 8'
plywood prams for $245.00.




Yeah. Don't tell Wayne. He won't believe it, because it doesn't fit into
his mindset.

"HK" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Jan 5, 12:05 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 11:50:24 -0500, HK wrote:
We built dinghies that looked very much like yours, and rowboats that
were somewhat more stout.
How many did you actually build by yourself ?

I'm guessing zero.



In a word Harry, you know just about zip with regards to boat
building, and you have incredible gall denigrating the skills of
others. Get a life.
Well, probably a little off. In the 50's you could get a locally built
boat like a Brockway, say 16 to 20 feet for a few hundred dollars,
Dynamite Payson sold prams up in Maine for probably 50-75 dollars...

Of course, I was only born in 58 so I am taking it from the old salts
that I have run into over the years..

He's not even right about okoume. It is a relatively weak wood, and
subject to rot. It's use in kit boats came about because the world
supply of real mahogany, a stronger, more rot-resistant wood, got tight
and the resulting marine mahogany ply, became much too expensive and
scarce for boatbuilders. What's really sad is that many purveyors of
okoume claim the product they are selling is mahogany ply, but it ain't.

I'm pretty sure my dad spec'd 3/8" thick *mahogany* marine ply on the
small boats the shop turned out. He used cedar, too. No "sewn together"
boats, either. The boats the shop fiberglassed were built with different
"skins."

Here's a reference you might like...the Stur-Dee dory site. My father
did business with the founder and owner, Ernie Gavin, for at least 25
years. If you look on the "history" page, you'll see a reference to
16-foot dories Stur-Dee built and sold in the mid 1950s for $195:

http://www.stur-deeboat.com/history.htm


"The atmosphere at Stur-Dee speaks of the 1950s. In the once, there is
no computer, fax machine or push-button phone. Ernie Gavin believes a
rotary phone and the postal service are sufficient means of
communicating. Shelves are filled with dusty books on such subjects as
history and evolution – Gavin is a voracious reader. Logbooks with
transactions dating back to 1954 also can be found on the shelves.

"Gavin grabbed the 1964 edition, blew a thick layer of dust off it and
turned to a page filled with scribbled notes that only he could
decipher. One transaction, the sale of a 16-foot dory was for $195."


And, because it bears repeating, once again, the misinformation from
WhineB:

"No one in the 50s or 60s could afford to build a wooden boat bigger
than 7 ft for $200, even using the cheapest materials. Nowadays a
sheet of good Okume sells for $200, and fyi, Okume is about as good as
it gets for marine plywood. It is light, strong and highly rot
resistant. Many racing hydroplanes have been built from it, and other
lightweight high performance boats."

Have a nice day.


Up to 7 or 8 years ago a local guy out on the Bedford Highway advertised
8' plywood prams for $245.00.




Yeah. Don't tell Wayne. He won't believe it, because it doesn't fit into
his mindset.

Can't be much of a boat. OR he is not charging for labor. A couple of good
sheets of plywood is going to get most of a $100 bill, and that may not even
be Marine grade.

Calif Bill wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Jan 5, 12:05 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 11:50:24 -0500, HK wrote:
We built dinghies that looked very much like yours, and rowboats that
were somewhat more stout.
How many did you actually build by yourself ?

I'm guessing zero.


In a word Harry, you know just about zip with regards to boat
building, and you have incredible gall denigrating the skills of
others. Get a life.
Well, probably a little off. In the 50's you could get a locally built
boat like a Brockway, say 16 to 20 feet for a few hundred dollars,
Dynamite Payson sold prams up in Maine for probably 50-75 dollars...

Of course, I was only born in 58 so I am taking it from the old salts
that I have run into over the years..
He's not even right about okoume. It is a relatively weak wood, and
subject to rot. It's use in kit boats came about because the world
supply of real mahogany, a stronger, more rot-resistant wood, got tight
and the resulting marine mahogany ply, became much too expensive and
scarce for boatbuilders. What's really sad is that many purveyors of
okoume claim the product they are selling is mahogany ply, but it ain't.

I'm pretty sure my dad spec'd 3/8" thick *mahogany* marine ply on the
small boats the shop turned out. He used cedar, too. No "sewn together"
boats, either. The boats the shop fiberglassed were built with different
"skins."

Here's a reference you might like...the Stur-Dee dory site. My father
did business with the founder and owner, Ernie Gavin, for at least 25
years. If you look on the "history" page, you'll see a reference to
16-foot dories Stur-Dee built and sold in the mid 1950s for $195:

http://www.stur-deeboat.com/history.htm


"The atmosphere at Stur-Dee speaks of the 1950s. In the once, there is
no computer, fax machine or push-button phone. Ernie Gavin believes a
rotary phone and the postal service are sufficient means of
communicating. Shelves are filled with dusty books on such subjects as
history and evolution – Gavin is a voracious reader. Logbooks with
transactions dating back to 1954 also can be found on the shelves.

"Gavin grabbed the 1964 edition, blew a thick layer of dust off it and
turned to a page filled with scribbled notes that only he could
decipher. One transaction, the sale of a 16-foot dory was for $195."


And, because it bears repeating, once again, the misinformation from
WhineB:

"No one in the 50s or 60s could afford to build a wooden boat bigger
than 7 ft for $200, even using the cheapest materials. Nowadays a
sheet of good Okume sells for $200, and fyi, Okume is about as good as
it gets for marine plywood. It is light, strong and highly rot
resistant. Many racing hydroplanes have been built from it, and other
lightweight high performance boats."

Have a nice day.

Up to 7 or 8 years ago a local guy out on the Bedford Highway advertised
8' plywood prams for $245.00.



Yeah. Don't tell Wayne. He won't believe it, because it doesn't fit into
his mindset.

Can't be much of a boat. OR he is not charging for labor. A couple of good
sheets of plywood is going to get most of a $100 bill, and that may not even
be Marine grade.




You did notice Don said "7 or 8 years ago," right?

John H. wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 11:50:24 -0500, HK wrote:

wrote:


And quite frankly, his post about building dinghys and such in his
dad's shops does not square with the impressions he has given in the
past. I tend to doubt he has ever built a boat.... But that is just my
opinion based on things he has said that would somewhat exclude him
for a group of folks who I think understand construction and
implementation of the tool... beyond what he has read. I also suspect
he was typical dock rat, hanging around his dad's marina hoping to
pick up some of the leftovers from the boarders... Anyone remember
those little assh**es?

We built dinghies that looked very much like yours, and rowboats that
were somewhat more stout. Sold them for a couple of hundred dollars to
boaters who wanted something cheap to use to row from the marina dock
out to their mooring. We had a very small assembly line out in a metal
storage shed. The frames were cut out, and then the hullsides, bottoms,
et cetera, were cut using patterns out of sheets of marine ply. It
wasn't rocket science then, and it certainly isn't now.

Those who wanted a tow-behind dink usually ended up buying one of Dyer's
offerings, not a plywood tippydoodle. If the buyer wanted a more robust
rowboat, Dad had factory-made dories and rowboats that were suitable.

There isn't a boat you built on your website I would have taken out of a
small cove on Long Island Sound, unless, of course, I had a death wish.

My father didn't allow liveaboarders at his marina. Couple of nights, a
long weekend, fine. No longer. In those days, everyone seemed to
appreciate that. There weren't many rules at the marina, but the ones
there were were posted and enforced.



You know, Harry. I believe you have a wife. I believe you have a boat. I
believe you feed wild animals.

Much beyond that and your credibility just goes out the window. You've just
lied yourself into the corner too many times.

He'll never admit that. His affliction prevents that. You should know
that by now, John!