On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:01:52 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:35:20 -0500, HK wrote:

I have no objection to modern materials in the hull, but I'd not buy any
boat with foam in between the hull skins.

Why?

I've read that pounding eventually destroys the foam's
structure/strength, leading to excessive hull flex.
Yep. That's what I remember reading.

--Vic

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:10:00 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:01:52 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:35:20 -0500, HK wrote:

I have no objection to modern materials in the hull, but I'd not buy any
boat with foam in between the hull skins.

Why?

I've read that pounding eventually destroys the foam's
structure/strength, leading to excessive hull flex.
Yep. That's what I remember reading.

I've heard that before, but I'm not at all sure that it is true with
closed cell foam.

I saw a 12 year old Ranger 318 VS when it was being cut up and the
foam flotation looked brand new.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:10:00 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:01:52 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:35:20 -0500, HK wrote:

I have no objection to modern materials in the hull, but I'd not buy any
boat with foam in between the hull skins.
Why?
I've read that pounding eventually destroys the foam's
structure/strength, leading to excessive hull flex.
Yep. That's what I remember reading.

I've heard that before, but I'm not at all sure that it is true with
closed cell foam.

I saw a 12 year old Ranger 318 VS when it was being cut up and the
foam flotation looked brand new.

Fresh water bass boats don't take much of a pounding. Besides, they have
low sides. Further, we're not talking about flotation.

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:14:38 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:10:00 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:01:52 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:35:20 -0500, HK wrote:

I have no objection to modern materials in the hull, but I'd not buy any
boat with foam in between the hull skins.

Why?

I've read that pounding eventually destroys the foam's
structure/strength, leading to excessive hull flex.
Yep. That's what I remember reading.

I've heard that before, but I'm not at all sure that it is true with
closed cell foam.

I saw a 12 year old Ranger 318 VS when it was being cut up and the
foam flotation looked brand new.

I'm not up on the techniques used to core hulls, or the materials, but
when I was reading up on it I concluded my preference would be solid
FRP hull.
With a sailboat like a Mac 26X/M you get that, and "unsinkable"
flotation elsewhere.
The Carolina Skiff and Boston Whaler have the flotation in the hull.
I see on the CS forum that some owners have delamination problems,
and in a recent post the problem was so bad an owner started taking on
water. They sometimes get their boats replaced under warranty and
CS seems to be a stand-up outfit.
But I'm starting to have second thoughts about owning one.
I haven't heard about Whalers having these problems, but haven't
really tried looked at them hard.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:14:38 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:10:00 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:01:52 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:35:20 -0500, HK wrote:

I have no objection to modern materials in the hull, but I'd not buy
any
boat with foam in between the hull skins.

Why?

I've read that pounding eventually destroys the foam's
structure/strength, leading to excessive hull flex.
Yep. That's what I remember reading.

I've heard that before, but I'm not at all sure that it is true with
closed cell foam.

I saw a 12 year old Ranger 318 VS when it was being cut up and the
foam flotation looked brand new.

I'm not up on the techniques used to core hulls, or the materials, but
when I was reading up on it I concluded my preference would be solid
FRP hull.
With a sailboat like a Mac 26X/M you get that, and "unsinkable"
flotation elsewhere.
The Carolina Skiff and Boston Whaler have the flotation in the hull.
I see on the CS forum that some owners have delamination problems,
and in a recent post the problem was so bad an owner started taking on
water. They sometimes get their boats replaced under warranty and
CS seems to be a stand-up outfit.
But I'm starting to have second thoughts about owning one.
I haven't heard about Whalers having these problems, but haven't
really tried looked at them hard.

--Vic

Cored construction and foam floatation are two different things.
The way a Whaler is built (and some other manufacturers now-a-days) could
be considered a extreme meld of both I suppose. There have been cases of
Whalers becoming "waterlogged" due to cracks in the hull leading to water
saturation of the foam.

I agree with Harry regarding cored construction. Solid below and just up
over the waterline, then non-balsa coring (closed cell) is ok above.


Eisboch

On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 21:27:39 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



Cored construction and foam floatation are two different things.
The way a Whaler is built (and some other manufacturers now-a-days) could
be considered a extreme meld of both I suppose. There have been cases of
Whalers becoming "waterlogged" due to cracks in the hull leading to water
saturation of the foam.

I agree with Harry regarding cored construction. Solid below and just up
over the waterline, then non-balsa coring (closed cell) is ok above.

Me too. What I meant to say is that if you go with a "non-sinkable"
hull like the CS or Whaler you are getting a cored hull.
Carolina Skiffs are also prone to waterlogging through cracks/poorly
sealed deck fittings.
A Mac 26 X/M has solid FRP hull, and the flotation is foam blocks in
various voids.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:01:52 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:35:20 -0500, HK wrote:

I have no objection to modern materials in the hull, but I'd not buy any
boat with foam in between the hull skins.
Why?

I've read that pounding eventually destroys the foam's
structure/strength, leading to excessive hull flex.
Yep. That's what I remember reading.

--Vic

There's that, there's the thinner skins on each side, there's the water
that can get between the foam and the skins when the skins work...

On Nov 5, 6:10 pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:01:52 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing

wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:35:20 -0500, HK wrote:

I have no objection to modern materials in the hull, but I'd not buy any
boat with foam in between the hull skins.

Why?

I've read that pounding eventually destroys the foam's
structure/strength, leading to excessive hull flex.
Yep. That's what I remember reading.

--Vic

I'd like to see some data, pictures, etc. backing that claim up!
Whoever wrote such sounds just like some old fart that's afraid of new
technology no matter what!

On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 13:34:07 -0000, wrote:

On Nov 5, 6:10 pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:01:52 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing

wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:35:20 -0500, HK wrote:

I have no objection to modern materials in the hull, but I'd not buy any
boat with foam in between the hull skins.

Why?

I've read that pounding eventually destroys the foam's
structure/strength, leading to excessive hull flex.
Yep. That's what I remember reading.

--Vic

I'd like to see some data, pictures, etc. backing that claim up!
Whoever wrote such sounds just like some old fart that's afraid of new
technology no matter what!

You're right, I misremembered. Though I did find one example, it was
a defunct sub-par mfg using sub-par foam, so it doesn't count.
What I should have said is that pounding often causes delamination of
FRP from cores of any type if the mfg/workers aren't top quality.
Another issue with cored hulls is water intrusion, which can
cause/accererate delamination.
There are weight/strength/insulation benefits to cored hulls.
Its up to the owner to decide what trade-offs he will make.
Buying a known good quality boat is important, but I've read that
most Boston Whalers and Carolina Skiffs have to some degree
waterlogged cores. You can easily verify that.
Some of that water gets in because owners don't seal their work
correctly, and some leaks are from the factory.
Anyway the integrity of a cored hull poses different issues than
that of a solid FRP hull.
I can understand why some people won't have a cored hull.

--Vic

On Nov 6, 7:06 pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 13:34:07 -0000, wrote:
On Nov 5, 6:10 pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:01:52 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing

wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:35:20 -0500, HK wrote:

I have no objection to modern materials in the hull, but I'd not buy any
boat with foam in between the hull skins.

Why?

I've read that pounding eventually destroys the foam's
structure/strength, leading to excessive hull flex.
Yep. That's what I remember reading.

--Vic

I'd like to see some data, pictures, etc. backing that claim up!
Whoever wrote such sounds just like some old fart that's afraid of new
technology no matter what!

You're right, I misremembered. Though I did find one example, it was
a defunct sub-par mfg using sub-par foam, so it doesn't count.
What I should have said is that pounding often causes delamination of
FRP from cores of any type if the mfg/workers aren't top quality.
Another issue with cored hulls is water intrusion, which can
cause/accererate delamination.
There are weight/strength/insulation benefits to cored hulls.
Its up to the owner to decide what trade-offs he will make.
Buying a known good quality boat is important, but I've read that
most Boston Whalers and Carolina Skiffs have to some degree
waterlogged cores. You can easily verify that.
Some of that water gets in because owners don't seal their work
correctly, and some leaks are from the factory.
Anyway the integrity of a cored hull poses different issues than
that of a solid FRP hull.
I can understand why some people won't have a cored hull.

--Vic- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, cored hulls are different from composite construction, though.
You can make a composite out of more than one of anything! Come to
Atlanta, and I'll show you a pedestrian bridge I participated in that
was designed by GT students and the structural frame is made
completely out of composite material. Very sturdy, half the weight of
a steel structure. There are many, many lightpoles in use today that
are carbon fiber composites, and I dare say that if you made one out
of FRP construction, it would snap like a twig!