Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 4, 4:30?am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 3, 4:29?pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.
Where have you been, Harry?
Brunswick has owned Albermarle for quite while now. Basically, they
are built by the same group that makes Hatteras. Many of the upper
tier
trademarks built by Brunswick are pretty darn good boats.
I'm sure they were better boats when the companies that built them were
independent. The newest model Albemarle, for example, is wider and with
less deadrise than the model it will be replacing. That's corporate
conglomerate think for you...take a line of fishing boats and turn them
into something less.

Why would every boat in succession always have to be narrower and with
a deeper V than previous models? Perhaps the new model is intended for
slightly different conditions.

Slightly different conditions? Like what, flats fishing? Dockside condos?

There has been discussion for some time on the more serious "fishing"
boards about the downturn in quality in Cabos by those who know them
well, and the same is beginning to be said about Albemarles. These
comments come from experienced owners who actually know something about
these boats and others of their style. Guys who when they see a term
like "composite construction" used to describe a hull tend to say,
"composite what?"

On Nov 4, 8:40?am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 4, 4:30?am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 3, 4:29?pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.
Where have you been, Harry?
Brunswick has owned Albermarle for quite while now. Basically, they
are built by the same group that makes Hatteras. Many of the upper
tier
trademarks built by Brunswick are pretty darn good boats.
I'm sure they were better boats when the companies that built them were
independent. The newest model Albemarle, for example, is wider and with
less deadrise than the model it will be replacing. That's corporate
conglomerate think for you...take a line of fishing boats and turn them
into something less.

Why would every boat in succession always have to be narrower and with
a deeper V than previous models? Perhaps the new model is intended for
slightly different conditions.

Slightly different conditions? Like what, flats fishing? Dockside condos?

There has been discussion for some time on the more serious "fishing"
boards about the downturn in quality in Cabos by those who know them
well, and the same is beginning to be said about Albemarles. These
comments come from experienced owners who actually know something about
these boats and others of their style. Guys who when they see a term
like "composite construction" used to describe a hull tend to say,
"composite what?"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You keep expressing a concern regarding the term "composite."

When I visit some of the local factories, the types and varieties of
materials used by everybody is amazing in its diversity. Gone are the
days when most boats were built simply from mulitple layers of glass
strand cloth and resin. Space age materials such as Kevlar, and a wide
variety of coring materials (going well beyond the traditional and
problematic balsas and foams) are strategically included in the
assembly of materials in the "dry" layup before the vaccuum-assisted
infusion of resin. Many of these specialized synthetic materials are
produced specficially for inclusion in a fibergalss hull. There was a
time when differentiating between "hand rolled" and chopper gun FRP
was sufficiently informative, but in an era of rapidly changing (and
we hope "advancing") technology the general term "composite" is as
useful as "hand laid" used to be. How many of these savvy fishermen
would routinely demand to know "hand laid with what? How many layers
at the keel, at the chine? What is the rove to resin ratio in the
transom?" etc?


As you like to view the boating world from the perspective of a
fisherman, here's a link to an item that appeared in Sal****er
Sportsman. It fills in many of the gaps for folks uneasy about the
"new fangled" terms. :-)

http://www.sal****ersportsman.com/ar...sp?ID=21012214

On Nov 4, 7:30 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 3, 4:29?pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.

Where have you been, Harry?

Brunswick has owned Albermarle for quite while now. Basically, they
are built by the same group that makes Hatteras. Many of the upper
tier
trademarks built by Brunswick are pretty darn good boats.

I'm sure they were better boats when the companies that built them were
independent. The newest model Albemarle, for example, is wider and with
less deadrise than the model it will be replacing. That's corporate
conglomerate think for you...take a line of fishing boats and turn them
into something less.

People often think that just because something is made by small
independents that it automatically means better craftmanship and
quality, but that just isn't always true. Larger companies have money
to use for R&D and testing, plus the tools to ensure quality control.

wrote:
On Nov 4, 7:30 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 3, 4:29?pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.
Where have you been, Harry?
Brunswick has owned Albermarle for quite while now. Basically, they
are built by the same group that makes Hatteras. Many of the upper
tier
trademarks built by Brunswick are pretty darn good boats.
I'm sure they were better boats when the companies that built them were
independent. The newest model Albemarle, for example, is wider and with
less deadrise than the model it will be replacing. That's corporate
conglomerate think for you...take a line of fishing boats and turn them
into something less.

People often think that just because something is made by small
independents that it automatically means better craftmanship and
quality, but that just isn't always true. Larger companies have money
to use for R&D and testing, plus the tools to ensure quality control.


Of course you are correct. I personally would hate to pay for a one off
car. After watching American Hotrod, I would seriously question the
quality of some of these smaller builders. I would assume it is very
similar in with small boat builders.

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 4, 7:30 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 3, 4:29?pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.
Where have you been, Harry?
Brunswick has owned Albermarle for quite while now. Basically, they
are built by the same group that makes Hatteras. Many of the upper
tier
trademarks built by Brunswick are pretty darn good boats.
I'm sure they were better boats when the companies that built them were
independent. The newest model Albemarle, for example, is wider and with
less deadrise than the model it will be replacing. That's corporate
conglomerate think for you...take a line of fishing boats and turn them
into something less.

People often think that just because something is made by small
independents that it automatically means better craftmanship and
quality, but that just isn't always true. Larger companies have money
to use for R&D and testing, plus the tools to ensure quality control.


Of course you are correct. I personally would hate to pay for a one off
car. After watching American Hotrod, I would seriously question the
quality of some of these smaller builders. I would assume it is very
similar in with small boat builders.





I wouldn't buy a motorcycle from any of the televised "chopper" show
shops, because it is obvious that the builders are not overly concerned
with the vagaries of metallurgy. Small boat building among the quality
builders is an entirely different proposition; the "flashboat" builders
may change everything every year, but the quality builders do not.

Parker has been building hulls for a long, long time. Most of the hulls
are very similar in design, no matter their length, and so are the
materials, though "thickness" varies. Same with hardware. Same with
assembly. Next year, Parker will introduce a 34-footer with twin 350-hp
Yamahas. I suspect the boat will be very competent.

wrote:
On Nov 4, 7:30 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 3, 4:29?pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.
Where have you been, Harry?
Brunswick has owned Albermarle for quite while now. Basically, they
are built by the same group that makes Hatteras. Many of the upper
tier
trademarks built by Brunswick are pretty darn good boats.
I'm sure they were better boats when the companies that built them were
independent. The newest model Albemarle, for example, is wider and with
less deadrise than the model it will be replacing. That's corporate
conglomerate think for you...take a line of fishing boats and turn them
into something less.

People often think that just because something is made by small
independents that it automatically means better craftmanship and
quality, but that just isn't always true. Larger companies have money
to use for R&D and testing, plus the tools to ensure quality control.


It's entirely dependent on the builder. The "larger companies" in the
boat business seem to blow their R&D and testing budgets on ways to make
their boats cheaper.

I prefer fiberglass boats built in the old, traditional ways. Proper
mold prep, hand layup of the proper cloths by experienced workers,
correct amounts of chemicals properly applied, enough time in the molds,
quality inspection by old guys who know what to look for, heavy
hardware, heavy construction, et cetera. Hell, a Parker family member
personally took and forwarded to me photos of my boats every couple of
days while they were under construction.

On Nov 5, 1:41 pm, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 4, 7:30 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 3, 4:29?pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.
Where have you been, Harry?
Brunswick has owned Albermarle for quite while now. Basically, they
are built by the same group that makes Hatteras. Many of the upper
tier
trademarks built by Brunswick are pretty darn good boats.
I'm sure they were better boats when the companies that built them were
independent. The newest model Albemarle, for example, is wider and with
less deadrise than the model it will be replacing. That's corporate
conglomerate think for you...take a line of fishing boats and turn them
into something less.

People often think that just because something is made by small
independents that it automatically means better craftmanship and
quality, but that just isn't always true. Larger companies have money
to use for R&D and testing, plus the tools to ensure quality control.

It's entirely dependent on the builder.

Yep, there are plenty of crappy small family owned manufacturers out
there.

The "larger companies" in the
boat business seem to blow their R&D and testing budgets on ways to make
their boats cheaper.

That's just not true or pure speculation.

I prefer fiberglass boats built in the old, traditional ways.

I like fiberglass just fine, but am also not afraid of other systems
of hull manufacter.

Proper
mold prep, hand layup of the proper cloths by experienced workers,
correct amounts of chemicals properly applied, enough time in the molds,

Bingo, and that's where a good computerized system can help a great
deal.

quality inspection by old guys who know what to look for,

I'd rather the inspection process involve being able to tell, for
instance, whether or not there are any voids in the hull material,
than rely on some old guy's poor vision.

heavy
hardware, heavy construction, et cetera.

Heavy doesn't always mean better, or stronger.


Hell, a Parker family member
personally took and forwarded to me photos of my boats every couple of
days while they were under construction.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And just what did that do for the quality of the boat?

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 22:42:13 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Brunswick has owned Albermarle for quite while now. Basically, they
are built by the same group that makes Hatteras. Many of the upper
tier
trademarks built by Brunswick are pretty darn good boats. Sometimes
people make the mistake of looking at the cheapest entry level product
a corporation builds and then presuming that no matter what point they
buy into the product line or what trademark they get the quality will
be no better than the least expensive, entry level "leader" item the
corporation builds.

I think that there's always a concern when a large corporation buys
into a smaller company that quality will suffer. The business
rationale for the merger is almost always cost reduction. If those
cost saves are not realized in an intelligent way, and if the
corporate culture of the smaller firm is seriously disrupted, then
there is no guarantee that high quality will continue. On the other
hand if the new corporate parent invests in better production methods
that are also more efficient, that could turn out to improve overall
quality. You just have to wait and see.

On Nov 3, 6:29 pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.

I can't say I blame them, with the price of fuel, the future is very
cloudy. Powerboating was very much a middle class activity. Sure, the
really big boats are owned by the wealthy, but the vast majority of
boat owners are middle class. Crazy fuel prices are starting to push
the middle class out of boating.

If I owned a business that was very much dependant on middle class
incomes. And the business started to change, pushing the operating
cost of my product beyond that which my customer base can afford,
driving increasing numbers of those customers away. And someone came
along and offered me a good price for that business, I'd probably take
the money and run.

John

Capt John wrote:
On Nov 3, 6:29 pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.

I can't say I blame them, with the price of fuel, the future is very
cloudy. Powerboating was very much a middle class activity. Sure, the
really big boats are owned by the wealthy, but the vast majority of
boat owners are middle class. Crazy fuel prices are starting to push
the middle class out of boating.

If I owned a business that was very much dependant on middle class
incomes. And the business started to change, pushing the operating
cost of my product beyond that which my customer base can afford,
driving increasing numbers of those customers away. And someone came
along and offered me a good price for that business, I'd probably take
the money and run.

John


Oh, I don't *blame* Albemarle for selling out, but the likelihood is
that the product that emerges in the years to come will no longer be an
"Albemarle." It'll be the product of the MBAs and accountants, and
therefore the probability is, it will be crap, because that is what MBAs
and accountants produce.

Some decades ago, an ad and pr company I worked for had a client that,
at that time, was the largest and most successful FHA-VA mortgage banker
in the country. We liked the company and its management a lot, so much
so that the owner of the company and I (I was the chief account exec and
writer) bought some stock. It was traded O-T-C at the time, for about
$4.00 a share.

Lo and behold, a giant NY-based financial institution offer the founders
$35 a share for the stock. Too good an offer to turn down. We all cashed
in to the limits of our holdings, of course. I made a few bucks and was
happy to do so.

Well, the new owners simply didn't understand the market for the
acquisition and in a few years, it sold the company off to someone else,
after most of its value (which was mainly in good will and very
competent staff in about 20 U.S. markets). The company disappeared,
along with the service it had provided. The big institution's MBAs
turned the mortgage company into crap.

The family that started the mortgage company, the guys who cashed out,
stayed active in business. A large regional bank in our market was about
to be shut down by the FDIC, and the guys, over the course of ONE
weekend, put together enough cash to take over the bank with the FDIC's
blessing. Bank opened Monday with a new name and new management.
No MBAs involved.

Hatteras no longer is a premier manufacturer of top-end sportfishing
boats. Cabo no longer has its edge. Albemarle is going to become just
another nameplate.

Sad to see, whatever the reasons.