Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:12:19 -0500, HK wrote:

Properly protected wood is just fine in stringers, bulkheads, transoms,
et cetera.

But that wasn't what was being discussed. Hulls were.

THe hull is more than just topsides and bottoms, and the transom is
part of the hull also, last time I looked. Encapsulation and strength
of core material is the key but I agree that the bottom and hull sides
should ideally be uncored. If you do that however, you have to
stiffen them up in some other way, and increasing the thickness of the
glass laminate is an inefficient way to do it. The traditional way is
to add internal structure, typically encapsulated wood, another form
of composite construction.

That's an area of agreement, previously acknowledged.

On Nov 4, 8:12 pm, HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 12:10:43 -0500, HK

Does that high transom, dead transmission RV of yours have wood in its
hullsides or bottom? Well, hopefully if it does, it isn't balsa

"Balsa" = "Bayliner"

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 20:32:58 -0800, Tim wrote:

Does that high transom, dead transmission RV of yours have wood in its
hullsides or bottom? Well, hopefully if it does, it isn't balsa

"Balsa" = "Bayliner"

Quite a few supposedly high quality sailboats have also been built
with balsa cored hulls. Many of them have turned into expensive
junk.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 20:32:58 -0800, Tim wrote:

Does that high transom, dead transmission RV of yours have wood in its
hullsides or bottom? Well, hopefully if it does, it isn't balsa
"Balsa" = "Bayliner"

Quite a few supposedly high quality sailboats have also been built
with balsa cored hulls. Many of them have turned into expensive
junk.


I'm sure Chuck will tell us of the virtues of balsa as a core material.
I wouldn't even consider buying a boat with a balsa core. I also don't
buy into the boat broker b.s. that osmosis blistering is no big deal.
Those guys will do anything to move used boats. I don't want a boat
whose bottom is as pustuled and pockmarked as a $3.00 whore.

Tim wrote:
On Nov 4, 8:12 pm, HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 12:10:43 -0500, HK

Does that high transom, dead transmission RV of yours have wood in its
hullsides or bottom? Well, hopefully if it does, it isn't balsa

"Balsa" = "Bayliner"



When did Bayliner upgrade from cardboard coring? :}

Gene Kearns wrote:
t. Hatteras hasn't been Hatteras since the High
Point, NC factory closed and the "Hatteras Collection" has "evolved"
to the point that it has as much in common with sportfishing as a
metrosexual does with a salt water tackle box.


OUCH, now that was below the belt, Hatteras may never recover from that
blow.

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 08:23:55 -0800, Chuck Gould penned the following
well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


Why would every boat in succession always have to be narrower and with
a deeper V than previous models? Perhaps the new model is intended for
slightly different conditions. Is it possible that the same changes
that make the boat less "fishable" in your estimation might make it
better suited for cruising and exploring or some other purpose?

Unless Brunswick was lying through their teeth (which I find
imminently possible), their news releases at the time of purchase gave
the reason that they were targeting the sportfishing market.


Albemarle builds boats that range up to 40-soome feet in length, and
not all are intended exclusively for use by the weekend or retired
fisherman. It may be that in order to increase total overall appeal
and sales of the new model Albemarle decided to make it slightly less
specialized......don't know this for a fact, simply stating a
possibility.


Indeed, they have taken a local boat, built for local conditions, and
corporatized it to sell in a broader market.

To build a good case for a decline in quality I think it takes a lot
more than the appearance of a new hull design with different
characteristics.
Why not check out one of the new boats in person and see if fit,
finish,
hardware, workmanship aren't still up to traditional standards?

It was a boat designed for certain local conditions. It now,
regardless of fit and finish ranks little above the mongrel stage.

I'll
be getting underway on one of their new boats, just over 30-feet LOA,
in the next week or so.

Thus, it wouldn't be prudent to say anything disparaging about the
bread and butter, eh?

The brand doesn't have the long history in
this region that it enjoys back on the east coast,

The reason being, pre-Brunswick.... it wasn't designed for or marketed
to that region.


so I can't say that
I will be able to compare it knowledgeably with the pre-2005
produciton- but a pretty thorough at-the-dock examination of one of
the current boats a few months ago revealed no glaring defects or
cheap-cut aspects- I thought the boat was pretty impressive overall
and I am looking forward to the opportunity to learn even more about
it.

You might as well concede to Harry then, as you are making the
argument for him.

(The "Hatteras Collection" includes Hatteras, Cabo, and Albemarle. The
Harrell family sold to Brunswick in 2005).

Albemarle and Hatteras were originally designed as sport fishers for
the North Carolina coast. Hatteras hasn't been Hatteras since the High
Point, NC factory closed and the "Hatteras Collection" has "evolved"
to the point that it has as much in common with sportfishing as a
metrosexual does with a salt water tackle box.



What the hell would Chuck know about Atlantic Ocean sportfishing boats,
based upon an "at-the-dock" examination that "revealed no glaring
defects..." How would he know what a "glaring defect" on a sportfishing
boat might be?

Whenever a corporate conglomerate takes over a boat line, I'm reminded
of what happened to Harley-Davidson when it was taken over by AMF.

On Nov 3, 6:29 pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.

I can't say I blame them, with the price of fuel, the future is very
cloudy. Powerboating was very much a middle class activity. Sure, the
really big boats are owned by the wealthy, but the vast majority of
boat owners are middle class. Crazy fuel prices are starting to push
the middle class out of boating.

If I owned a business that was very much dependant on middle class
incomes. And the business started to change, pushing the operating
cost of my product beyond that which my customer base can afford,
driving increasing numbers of those customers away. And someone came
along and offered me a good price for that business, I'd probably take
the money and run.

John

Capt John wrote:
On Nov 3, 6:29 pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.

I can't say I blame them, with the price of fuel, the future is very
cloudy. Powerboating was very much a middle class activity. Sure, the
really big boats are owned by the wealthy, but the vast majority of
boat owners are middle class. Crazy fuel prices are starting to push
the middle class out of boating.

If I owned a business that was very much dependant on middle class
incomes. And the business started to change, pushing the operating
cost of my product beyond that which my customer base can afford,
driving increasing numbers of those customers away. And someone came
along and offered me a good price for that business, I'd probably take
the money and run.

John


Oh, I don't *blame* Albemarle for selling out, but the likelihood is
that the product that emerges in the years to come will no longer be an
"Albemarle." It'll be the product of the MBAs and accountants, and
therefore the probability is, it will be crap, because that is what MBAs
and accountants produce.

Some decades ago, an ad and pr company I worked for had a client that,
at that time, was the largest and most successful FHA-VA mortgage banker
in the country. We liked the company and its management a lot, so much
so that the owner of the company and I (I was the chief account exec and
writer) bought some stock. It was traded O-T-C at the time, for about
$4.00 a share.

Lo and behold, a giant NY-based financial institution offer the founders
$35 a share for the stock. Too good an offer to turn down. We all cashed
in to the limits of our holdings, of course. I made a few bucks and was
happy to do so.

Well, the new owners simply didn't understand the market for the
acquisition and in a few years, it sold the company off to someone else,
after most of its value (which was mainly in good will and very
competent staff in about 20 U.S. markets). The company disappeared,
along with the service it had provided. The big institution's MBAs
turned the mortgage company into crap.

The family that started the mortgage company, the guys who cashed out,
stayed active in business. A large regional bank in our market was about
to be shut down by the FDIC, and the guys, over the course of ONE
weekend, put together enough cash to take over the bank with the FDIC's
blessing. Bank opened Monday with a new name and new management.
No MBAs involved.

Hatteras no longer is a premier manufacturer of top-end sportfishing
boats. Cabo no longer has its edge. Albemarle is going to become just
another nameplate.

Sad to see, whatever the reasons.

HK wrote:
Capt John wrote:
On Nov 3, 6:29 pm, HK wrote:
Just read that Albemarle was bought out by Brunswick. Another famous
line goes in the crapper. Cabo was sold last year. Sad to see the
independents disappearing, since they build the best boats.

I can't say I blame them, with the price of fuel, the future is very
cloudy. Powerboating was very much a middle class activity. Sure, the
really big boats are owned by the wealthy, but the vast majority of
boat owners are middle class. Crazy fuel prices are starting to push
the middle class out of boating.

If I owned a business that was very much dependant on middle class
incomes. And the business started to change, pushing the operating
cost of my product beyond that which my customer base can afford,
driving increasing numbers of those customers away. And someone came
along and offered me a good price for that business, I'd probably take
the money and run.

John


Oh, I don't *blame* Albemarle for selling out, but the likelihood is
that the product that emerges in the years to come will no longer be an
"Albemarle." It'll be the product of the MBAs and accountants, and
therefore the probability is, it will be crap, because that is what MBAs
and accountants produce.

Some decades ago, an ad and pr company I worked for had a client that,
at that time, was the largest and most successful FHA-VA mortgage banker
in the country. We liked the company and its management a lot, so much
so that the owner of the company and I (I was the chief account exec and
writer) bought some stock. It was traded O-T-C at the time, for about
$4.00 a share.

Lo and behold, a giant NY-based financial institution offer the founders
$35 a share for the stock. Too good an offer to turn down. We all cashed
in to the limits of our holdings, of course. I made a few bucks and was
happy to do so.

Well, the new owners simply didn't understand the market for the
acquisition and in a few years, it sold the company off to someone else,
after most of its value (which was mainly in good will and very
competent staff in about 20 U.S. markets). The company disappeared,
along with the service it had provided. The big institution's MBAs
turned the mortgage company into crap.

The family that started the mortgage company, the guys who cashed out,
stayed active in business. A large regional bank in our market was about
to be shut down by the FDIC, and the guys, over the course of ONE
weekend, put together enough cash to take over the bank with the FDIC's
blessing. Bank opened Monday with a new name and new management.
No MBAs involved.

Hatteras no longer is a premier manufacturer of top-end sportfishing
boats. Cabo no longer has its edge. Albemarle is going to become just
another nameplate.

Sad to see, whatever the reasons.



Who is the premier mfg'er of top-end sportfishing boats who has retained
it's edge.