"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 01:13:44 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

I've seen a couple of insurance boats that would make good candidates
for this approach.

If you want to end up with a great boat at a reasonable price
(reasonable is relative), I'd start out with something better than an
insurance boat so that you can spend most of the money on cosmetic
stuff. The Berts have great electrical systems so that's not usually
a problem. The 8V92TIs can be completely refurbed for $30K each, a
new genset for another 20K. Figure another 30K for new controls,
instruments and electronics. A good awlgrip job will run about 30 to
50K, complete interior refurb 50 to 100K, new canvas 10K, new props
and shafts 10K.



In Short Wave's case, I think you are a little light in the new controls,
instruments and electronics.

Ever see his daily driver?

http://www.eisboch.com/instruments.jpg

Eisboch

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:07:41 -0500, HK wrote:

Absolutely, although 700 hp is about the norm for an offshore sportfish
boat of that size. The engines will be about $18,000 each through
Parker, I would guess. That would be the fully rigged price. $36,000 for
the pair. I wonder what a pair of new 350 hp diesels, fully rigged,
with transmissions, goes for these days? Let's say...$80,000+, or a
$44,000 difference. It's going to take a hell of a lot of diesel
efficiency to make that up!

Well, lets run the numbers just for the fun of it. Your price
estimate is in the ball park so let's figure out what the payback is
over 5 years or so. Assuming the diesels will return 50% of their
extra cost on resale, the number to meet is $22,000.

With the pair of big OBs the boat will burn about 50 gph, 25 gph with
diesels. Gas at the marina is about $4, diesel about $3, cost per
hour $200 gas, $75 diesel, $125 delta.

$22,000 divided by $125 is 176 hours. That is the break even point.
If you use the boat more than 176 hours you are money ahead on
operating costs alone. Factor in the reliability and longevity of
diesels and you are way ahead if you use the boat regularly.

I doubt the diesels are going to burn half the fuel of the gas engines
at the same planing boat speeds. Also, around here there is almost no
difference in the cost of gasoline vs. diesel. There used to be, though.

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 5, 2:14?pm, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 5, 1:33?pm, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 5, 11:35?am, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
With crude oil well over $90/bbl and forecast to hit $100 by the end
of the year, we could easily see $4- $4-50 a gallon at gas stations
and
maybe $6 at fuel docks during next spring's annual gas gouge. If
boating is to survive as a pastime and if the manufacturers hope to
sell enough boats to survive, the industry has to get some weight out
of the boats without sacrificing strength. The solid, hand rolled
laminate hull is being supplanted with better alternatives, made
possible in part by vacuum infused molding.
Making boats lighter has more implications than saving a few bucks worth of
fuel.
Leave them heavy and drive slower, I say.
Eisboch
I love this line, since it is right out of the PR Department's
bullship-ometer:
"The solid, hand rolled laminate hull is being supplanted with better
alternatives..."
Right, of course.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I'm sure you consider Hinckley a piece of crap. None of their lobster
or picnic style boats would ever compare to yours, I'm certain of
that.
If you might be interested in a general description of how a well
respected E Coast boat is built, follow this link:
http://hinckleyyachts.com/home.html
Select "Under the Skin", and then select item 5 on the illustration.
Omigawd. Kevlar and carbon fiber composites! (Watch the video- see the
bagged hull). Better run over there quick, Harry, and let them know
they don't have the first clue about how to build a boat.
Obviously a solid, hand rolled, FRP hull would be vastly superior to
anything Hinckley is putting out.....right?
I thought we were discussing sal****er fishing boats.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I thought I was responding to your comment that my remark (about
modern composite construction offering some opportunities to improve
upon traditional hand rolled rove and resin) "pegged the Bullship-o-
meter" and was straight off the PR desk. My response consists of an
observation that Hinckley, normally considered among today's finest
boat builders, uses a "composite", rather than hand rolled hull. No
bullship.
Chuck...I have no problems with "modern" composite hulls, so long as the
composite does not include foamboard or balsa.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Then why does a statement that modern composite construction is
supplanting traditional hand rolled rove and resin "peg the bullship-o-
meter"?



Some few boats, relatively speaking, are using "modern composite
construction." That hardly qualifies as "supplanting."

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 19:37:32 -0500, HK wrote:

It's hard to imagine you in an old slow boat like that. Our old slow
GB will run circles around a 30 ft sailboat, and do it with a great
deal more comfort.

It was only a year old when I bought it and as I posted, it was easy to
sail, and fun, too.

Sitting in an oversized old tub of a GB is not my kind of boating. It
wasn't then, and it isn't now.

Sez the guy who's never tried it. :-)


I've tried it.

On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 21:45:47 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

In Short Wave's case, I think you are a little light in the new controls,
instruments and electronics.

Ever see his daily driver?

http://www.eisboch.com/instruments.jpg

Heh, I once saw an old Studebaker that looked just about like that.

Eisboch wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:07:41 -0500, HK wrote:

Absolutely, although 700 hp is about the norm for an offshore sportfish
boat of that size. The engines will be about $18,000 each through
Parker, I would guess. That would be the fully rigged price. $36,000 for
the pair. I wonder what a pair of new 350 hp diesels, fully rigged,
with transmissions, goes for these days? Let's say...$80,000+, or a
$44,000 difference. It's going to take a hell of a lot of diesel
efficiency to make that up!
Well, lets run the numbers just for the fun of it. Your price
estimate is in the ball park so let's figure out what the payback is
over 5 years or so. Assuming the diesels will return 50% of their
extra cost on resale, the number to meet is $22,000.

With the pair of big OBs the boat will burn about 50 gph, 25 gph with
diesels. Gas at the marina is about $4, diesel about $3, cost per
hour $200 gas, $75 diesel, $125 delta.

$22,000 divided by $125 is 176 hours. That is the break even point.
If you use the boat more than 176 hours you are money ahead on
operating costs alone. Factor in the reliability and longevity of
diesels and you are way ahead if you use the boat regularly.


My first thought was that by the time the Yamahas are due for their first
rebuild, the diesels will just about be nicely broken in.

Besides, at 35' a proper boat should have inboards. With fixed props. And
rudders.
A boaty-boat.

Eisboch

Eisboch



I tend to agree regarding the inboards, but...what if one of those
diesels blows a tranny? :}

I have a six year warranty on my new Yamaha. Ergo, I will have no repair
costs, just a couple of hundred a year on routine maintenance.

Dan wrote:
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:44:47 -0500, HK wrote:

My first sailboat on the Bay was from the wonderful folks who
brought us Tiara. S2 9.2. Just under 30', and a wide-bodied
slowpoke. But it was easy to sail.

It's hard to imagine you in an old slow boat like that. Our old slow
GB will run circles around a 30 ft sailboat, and do it with a great
deal more comfort.


It was only a year old when I bought it and as I posted, it was easy
to sail, and fun, too.

Sitting in an oversized old tub of a GB is not my kind of boating. It
wasn't then, and it isn't now.

So the lobster boat was...a LIE?

Who would have thought...


Is there anything turning in that rotifer brain of yours, Dan? Did you
see a date posted in reference to my S2 days? I bought it slightly used
from an Annapolis charter company. Its actual owner bought it to put it
into charter service and only used it a few times before he was
transferred and put the boat up for sale. It was a center cockpit model
with the shoal draft keel, and as I said, was easy to sail in the Bay.

Why are you "in" rec.boats at all, Dan? I mean, you really don't do
anything here except post juvenile insults.

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:21:42 -0500, HK wrote:

Why are you "in" rec.boats at all, Dan? I mean, you really don't do
anything here except post juvenile insults.


Harumphhh.

On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 21:27:39 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



Cored construction and foam floatation are two different things.
The way a Whaler is built (and some other manufacturers now-a-days) could
be considered a extreme meld of both I suppose. There have been cases of
Whalers becoming "waterlogged" due to cracks in the hull leading to water
saturation of the foam.

I agree with Harry regarding cored construction. Solid below and just up
over the waterline, then non-balsa coring (closed cell) is ok above.

Me too. What I meant to say is that if you go with a "non-sinkable"
hull like the CS or Whaler you are getting a cored hull.
Carolina Skiffs are also prone to waterlogging through cracks/poorly
sealed deck fittings.
A Mac 26 X/M has solid FRP hull, and the flotation is foam blocks in
various voids.

--Vic

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:16:20 -0500, HK wrote:

I tend to agree regarding the inboards, but...what if one of those
diesels blows a tranny? :}

My starboard tranny had 26 years and maybe 10,000 hours on it before
it started to act up. It was actually still functional but showing
some signs that it needed work. We should only hope that everything
else lasted that long without maintenance.