On Nov 5, 11:30?am, "Eisboch" wrote:


Making boats lighter has more implications than saving a few bucks worth of
fuel.

Leave them heavy and drive slower, I say.

Eisboch


No problem for the trawler class- but as we know there is a point at
which slowing down a planing hull becomes less economical than staying
up on step. If the boat is slightly lighter it may be able to plane
more quickly and stay on plane more efficiently.

Offshore there is no replacement for displacement- but if the family
bow rider destined to zoom around Lake Whatchamacallit on warm summer
afternoons and in fair weather can be lightened up a few hundred
pounds without sacrificing structural integrty- that's probably a good
thing.

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Nov 5, 11:30?am, "Eisboch" wrote:


Making boats lighter has more implications than saving a few bucks worth
of
fuel.

Leave them heavy and drive slower, I say.

Eisboch


No problem for the trawler class- but as we know there is a point at
which slowing down a planing hull becomes less economical than staying
up on step. If the boat is slightly lighter it may be able to plane
more quickly and stay on plane more efficiently.

Offshore there is no replacement for displacement- but if the family
bow rider destined to zoom around Lake Whatchamacallit on warm summer
afternoons and in fair weather can be lightened up a few hundred
pounds without sacrificing structural integrty- that's probably a good
thing.


Agreed. I thought we were talking about high end sportsfishing boats. To
me, that means an offshore boat, but I hear you.

I learned a lesson about the newer, lighter sportsfishing boats with the Egg
Harbor I had.
Beautiful boat ... well built ... but would loosen your fillings on a rough
outing unless you slowed way down.

I guess that's why I still like the Navigator. Not fast, but fast enough
for fuel efficient cruising (which is my interest) and a soft, comfortable
ride in some fairly heavy seas.

Eisboch

On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 15:05:21 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Nov 5, 11:30?am, "Eisboch" wrote:


Making boats lighter has more implications than saving a few bucks worth
of
fuel.

Leave them heavy and drive slower, I say.

Eisboch


No problem for the trawler class- but as we know there is a point at
which slowing down a planing hull becomes less economical than staying
up on step. If the boat is slightly lighter it may be able to plane
more quickly and stay on plane more efficiently.

Offshore there is no replacement for displacement- but if the family
bow rider destined to zoom around Lake Whatchamacallit on warm summer
afternoons and in fair weather can be lightened up a few hundred
pounds without sacrificing structural integrty- that's probably a good
thing.


Agreed. I thought we were talking about high end sportsfishing boats. To
me, that means an offshore boat, but I hear you.

I learned a lesson about the newer, lighter sportsfishing boats with the Egg
Harbor I had.
Beautiful boat ... well built ... but would loosen your fillings on a rough
outing unless you slowed way down.

I guess that's why I still like the Navigator. Not fast, but fast enough
for fuel efficient cruising (which is my interest) and a soft, comfortable
ride in some fairly heavy seas.

And it doesn't have a low transom.

On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 15:05:21 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

I learned a lesson about the newer, lighter sportsfishing boats with the Egg
Harbor I had.
Beautiful boat ... well built ... but would loosen your fillings on a rough
outing unless you slowed way down.

Shuddagotta Bertram, Cadillac ride all the way. We loved our 33 but
it was just too small and too fuel inefficient for the kind of
retirement cruising we wanted to do. A 46 sportfish would have been
nice but they don't live nearly as well as a GB, and they burn 2 or 3
gallons per mile.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 15:05:21 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

I learned a lesson about the newer, lighter sportsfishing boats with the Egg
Harbor I had.
Beautiful boat ... well built ... but would loosen your fillings on a rough
outing unless you slowed way down.

Shuddagotta Bertram, Cadillac ride all the way. We loved our 33 but
it was just too small and too fuel inefficient for the kind of
retirement cruising we wanted to do. A 46 sportfish would have been
nice but they don't live nearly as well as a GB, and they burn 2 or 3
gallons per mile.


There haven't been any real "Bertrams" for years, just boats made by
successive companies that bought the Bertram name before, during and
after manufacturing started and stopped...Whittaker, Bertram Trojan,
Feretti and others have owned the name.

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:55:46 -0500, HK wrote:

There haven't been any real "Bertrams" for years, just boats made by
successive companies that bought the Bertram name before, during and
after manufacturing started and stopped...Whittaker, Bertram Trojan,
Feretti and others have owned the name.

There are lots of used ones from the 80s still going strong. They are
such great boats that it pays to do a refurb on them and bring them
back to like new. You can buy a used 46 for 200K or so, put 2 or 300
into a complete refit and still be way ahead of a new boat of
comparable quality.

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 20:02:30 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:55:46 -0500, HK wrote:

There haven't been any real "Bertrams" for years, just boats made by
successive companies that bought the Bertram name before, during and
after manufacturing started and stopped...Whittaker, Bertram Trojan,
Feretti and others have owned the name.

There are lots of used ones from the 80s still going strong. They are
such great boats that it pays to do a refurb on them and bring them
back to like new. You can buy a used 46 for 200K or so, put 2 or 300
into a complete refit and still be way ahead of a new boat of
comparable quality.

That's the way I've been thinking lately after seeing a '47 Post that
was refurbished.

I've seen a couple of insurance boats that would make good candidates
for this approach.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 20:02:30 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:55:46 -0500, HK wrote:

There haven't been any real "Bertrams" for years, just boats made by
successive companies that bought the Bertram name before, during and
after manufacturing started and stopped...Whittaker, Bertram Trojan,
Feretti and others have owned the name.

There are lots of used ones from the 80s still going strong. They are
such great boats that it pays to do a refurb on them and bring them
back to like new. You can buy a used 46 for 200K or so, put 2 or 300
into a complete refit and still be way ahead of a new boat of
comparable quality.

That's the way I've been thinking lately after seeing a '47 Post that
was refurbished.

I've seen a couple of insurance boats that would make good candidates
for this approach.


Little too old.

Eisboch

On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 01:13:44 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

I've seen a couple of insurance boats that would make good candidates
for this approach.

If you want to end up with a great boat at a reasonable price
(reasonable is relative), I'd start out with something better than an
insurance boat so that you can spend most of the money on cosmetic
stuff. The Berts have great electrical systems so that's not usually
a problem. The 8V92TIs can be completely refurbed for $30K each, a
new genset for another 20K. Figure another 30K for new controls,
instruments and electronics. A good awlgrip job will run about 30 to
50K, complete interior refurb 50 to 100K, new canvas 10K, new props
and shafts 10K.

So let's add it up, taking mid point of the ranges:

Engines 60
Genset 20
Cntls, etc 30
Awlgrip 40
Interior 75
Canvas 10
Props 10

Loooks like about $245 give or take, maybe $300 for top shelf
everything.

Decent used 46s are about $200, so you end up with a $1M boat for less
than half. You could easily spend another 20 or 30 for new helm
seats, fighting chair, ice maker, out riggers, etc.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:55:46 -0500, HK wrote:

There haven't been any real "Bertrams" for years, just boats made by
successive companies that bought the Bertram name before, during and
after manufacturing started and stopped...Whittaker, Bertram Trojan,
Feretti and others have owned the name.

There are lots of used ones from the 80s still going strong. They are
such great boats that it pays to do a refurb on them and bring them
back to like new. You can buy a used 46 for 200K or so, put 2 or 300
into a complete refit and still be way ahead of a new boat of
comparable quality.

The guy beside me at Kingman is doing exactly that in his 70's something 46'
Bert.
He looked around at new boats and realized it would cost him over a million
to replace what he had. He likes the hull so much that he's having Kingman
do a repower and complete renovation inside and out over the winter. He
figures it will run him about 200K.

I met the mechanic who will be doing the bulk of the work on the repower and
will also be coordinating the rest of the renovation. He's been maintaining
the owner's Bert for many years but started working at Kingman 2 years ago.
The Bert owner purposely brought the boat to Kingman for the work because
this particular mechanic was there.

Eisboch