On Sep 5, 11:59?am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 09:54:58 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
On Sep 5, 8:34?am, tsi-yu wrote:
They are all semi tame. Not much sport
in shooting caged bambis.

Make that BAM(!)-bye.

More and more people can live a lifetime without actually encountering
any wildlife.

Chuck, how is it you can go through life being so correct all the
time?

http://www.hsus.org/wildlife/urban_w...ild_neighbors/

http://www.hsus.org/wildlife/wildlif...ction_programs...

http://tinyurl.com/3bqoa4

http://www.enviroliteracy.org/article.php/603.html

http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/backyard/


Hang on to your hat, Tom. Low flying point just went overhead. :-)

I draw a distinction between urban deer, coyotes, raccoons, possums,
bears, cougars and other animals that have adapted to life in
suburbia, or even the central cities, and their cousins living with
little or no human contact.

In my opinion, an animal that has lost the natural fear of human
beings is no longer "wild", and therefore doesn't behave in the same
instinctive manner that actual "wildlife" would.

Most people consider a bear, for instance, an example of "wildlife".
But if you put that bear in a circus, in my opinion, it's now a circus
bear and no longer wildlife.

I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense to round up urban deer, etc, and
try to relocate them into some remote wilderness. I suspect that the
tame deer would have some difficulty finding food, eluding predators,
etc. Don't know, not an expert on deer or etc. But that doesn't
prevent me from holding an opinion that forest animals that move into
urban areas aren't really "wildlife" anymore. I appreciate that you
may hold a different opinion and that's great- the purpose of a forum
is to share ideas and opinions.








It's like the hatchery-trout fishery they have every spring up this
way.
They spend $millions breeding trout in state hatcheries, where for a
year or two the fish are taught to associate people with food. Even a
fish (one of the dumbest animals around) eventually learns that
responding to a certain stimulus (the presence of people) by eating
anything the people throw into the pond will result in high times and
easy livin'. They stuff these trained fish into tanker trucks and will
dump thousands upon thousands of them into a variety of lakes -many of
which are *not* really suitable trout habitat). Opening Day of fishing
season comes around, and it's elbow-to-elbow along the shorelines of
these recently stocked lakes. The Game Department usually opens the
season on a Sunday, so some of the fish haven't been fed for several
days prior and they sign the piscatoral version of the Hallelujah
Chorus when people/food appear. Little old ladies, five year old kids,
and everybody in between hauls in the poor confused fish as fast as
they can cast a hook. The fish bite worms, flies, marshmallows,
spoons, chunks of rubber or plastic, you name it. Among the highly
effective products is "Power Bait", formulated to smell and taste
exactly like the stuff the fish were trained to eat at the hatchery.
People walk around bragging about taking a "limit" of little 6-8 inch
fish. The upside is that it introduces a lot of people to fishing, and
kids in particular need to actually catch a fish in the first outing
or two or they are likely to lose enthusiasm for it. I know of serious
fishermen who deliberately *avoid* the annual madness and look for
more challenging conditions.

Um....never mind.

You're both an avid fisherman and a staunch conservationist. It would
be interesting to read about your perspective of stocked-pond hatchery
fishing. It might be different than mine.



The feeding operation is a good observation. There didn't seem to be
any empathy expressed by the people for the deer, just training them
to depend on people for food. Send the rough tough hunter out into the
woods in his BMW SUV- but forget about the "deer call". Tell him to
start a fire, cook some bacon, and make a noise like a sandwich. The
highly conditioned "game" will walk up to within a couple of feet
looking for a handout. Even a once-a-year hunter will have a tough
time missing from 4-6 feet away.

Um...well....er...

Back here, it's a little harder.

Maybe it's because our deer aren't trained. You aren't a deer trainer
by any chance are you? Sure sound familar with the process-

The "trained" deer I run into are up in the San Juan Islands. Despite
dozens of signs reading "Please Don't Feed the Deer!" a lot of people
do.
It's to the point where the deer come running down to the dinghy dock
everytime somebody rows in from anchor, and they will walk up to
within less than a foot of a person and stand there expectantly
waiting for food.

Once did feed a few deer at a resort marina. We were having a picnic
with some friends and the herd of resident deer wandered over to stick
their noses into the food. One animal ate right off my wife's plate
when she wasn't paying attention. We tried to show them away, but they
wouldn't go as long as there was food available. In the end, we fed
them some carrot sticks to distract them from the food on the table
and our plates.

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:49:42 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense to round up urban deer, etc, and
try to relocate them into some remote wilderness. I suspect that the
tame deer would have some difficulty finding food, eluding predators,
etc. Don't know, not an expert on deer or etc.

Other than Harry I don't know anyone who feeds deer in their backyard.
They are interesting to watch but almost everyone regards them as an
extreme pest. Deer eat expensive shrubbery and vegetable gardens.
They wreck cars and propagate deer ticks. They're nice to look at but
not very good neighbors.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:49:42 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense to round up urban deer, etc, and
try to relocate them into some remote wilderness. I suspect that the
tame deer would have some difficulty finding food, eluding predators,
etc. Don't know, not an expert on deer or etc.

Other than Harry I don't know anyone who feeds deer in their backyard.
They are interesting to watch but almost everyone regards them as an
extreme pest. Deer eat expensive shrubbery and vegetable gardens.
They wreck cars and propagate deer ticks. They're nice to look at but
not very good neighbors.


Some of us have a bit of compassion towards the critters whose habitat
we are destroying. Now, if they were Republicans, hell, let them eat cake.

HK wrote:

Some of us have a bit of compassion towards the critters whose habitat
we are destroying. Now, if they were Republicans, hell, let them eat cake.

Harry Krause,
Anyone who really has compassion would never feed any wildlife. You
have seen all of the posts where the experts review how you are actually
hurting the wildlife by feeding them anything, yet you believe you
should be able to do it so you and your wife can look and photograph
the pretty animals, and can pretend you are doing this because you have
compassion.

while I know you are too self centered to make any changes that would
actually be helpful to the wildlife, here is a short article by the
Oregon State University conserving feeding wildlife in your backyard.

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/new...oryType=garden

Many people feed deer, raccoons and other suburban wildlife, thinking
they are helping these animals out by providing food.

Don't feed the wildlife in your yard, say wildlife biologists, including
Oregon State University professor Dan Edge, and Jeff Picton, director of
the Chintimini Wildlife Rehabilitation Center in Corvallis.

Providing food for wild animals is not a good idea because:

Supplemental feeding encourages wildlife to become dependent on handouts
that are not a part of their natural diets.
Juvenile animals become used to depending on humans and may never
develop normal foraging behavior. They could starve if the artificial
food sources are removed. Human foods are usually nutritionally
inadequate for wildlife and may lead to health problems.
Wildlife may lose their fear of humans and pets, leading to unfortunate
encounters with aggressive pets and humans.
Wild animals being fed supplementally may congregate in unnaturally high
numbers, increasing the chances of disease transmission.
To discourage wild animals from foraging near your house, Edge and
Picton recommend that homeowners keep garbage cans tightly shut. Rinse
cans and bottles for recycling thoroughly before putting them out for
curbside pick up.

Keep your compost pile fenced from animals. This may not keep all
animals (such as rodents) out, but it will help. Or used a closed
compost container.

Feed your pets indoors, or take outdoor food bowls in at night.

Put livestock and poultry in pens at night.

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:32:45 -0400, wrote:

Another point, it makes the predators associate people with food.
Sometimes they get confused whether the people provide food or ARE
food. Hence most alligator attacks in Florida.

I always have to chuckle at the typical environmentalist response to
alligator attacks in Florida. The attacks are always blamed on humans
feeding the gators. Their logic is irrefutable I guess.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 17:21:34 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:32:45 -0400, wrote:

Another point, it makes the predators associate people with food.
Sometimes they get confused whether the people provide food or ARE
food. Hence most alligator attacks in Florida.

I always have to chuckle at the typical environmentalist response to
alligator attacks in Florida. The attacks are always blamed on humans
feeding the gators. Their logic is irrefutable I guess.

It is pretty accurate. Just look at where the attacks in SW Florida
occured. People in Sanibel were treating gators like household pets
until that real estate lady got ate. They had a 12 footer that hung
out at the Dairy Queen on Bullwinkle. Bird Westall would come over
about once a week and drag him over to Ding. The next day he was back
eating ice cream cones. I think that may have been the one who ate the
lady but if not it was his brother. They had a bunch of them.

The kid up in Charlotte was a similar story. People had been feeding
that gator for years. For some reason people think seeing a gator eat
a hot dog makes them a native.

BTW the other way people get gator or snake bit is screwing with one
that would just as soon run away.

Two years ago, I was wading a nice trout stream in October. Next day on the
news, "DEC Captures Half of Croc Pair" or something like that. Somehow, they
identified the idiot who had releases two of the monsters into that same
creek, so they knew there were two. They said winter would take care of the
other one. It sure put an end to trout fishing on that stream quickly for
the rest of the season. :-)