On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 22:38:57 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

we are seeing less and less Bambi's in California. Since the eco-nuts have
protected the mountain lion, they have done what cats have always done.
Make lots more cats. Now they run out of deer to eat, and take out pets and
a few hikers. We have endangered Desert Big Horn sheep. Most every
fatality of the decreaseing numbers is caused by mountain lions. Which are
not that rare here.

That's interesting, because we're seeing the opposite effect here.

The deer herd in CT is higher than it was 50 years ago and in the last
10 years it's expoloded - consider that in 1970 it was 20,000 head.
2000 it was close to 135.000 and estimates that it could go as high as
175,000 by 2010 were wrong - they reached that mark last year.

Natural predation is present from coyotes to small feral dog/coyote
hybrids and recently, there have been cougar and large bobcat spoor in
the area and in other areas of the state. Their impact is small
however and the herd keeps growing. Last year was the first open
season on doe and there's talk of another open season on doe this
year.

With all due respect to Harry, feeding the deer is a incredibly
ignorant thing to do. Quite beyond taking them to relate to humanity,
there is the danger of bacterial infection to humans from exposure to
deer hemorrhagic disease. Not to mention Lyme Disease.

Not a smart thing to do.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 22:38:57 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

we are seeing less and less Bambi's in California. Since the eco-nuts have
protected the mountain lion, they have done what cats have always done.
Make lots more cats. Now they run out of deer to eat, and take out pets and
a few hikers. We have endangered Desert Big Horn sheep. Most every
fatality of the decreaseing numbers is caused by mountain lions. Which are
not that rare here.

That's interesting, because we're seeing the opposite effect here.

The deer herd in CT is higher than it was 50 years ago and in the last
10 years it's expoloded - consider that in 1970 it was 20,000 head.
2000 it was close to 135.000 and estimates that it could go as high as
175,000 by 2010 were wrong - they reached that mark last year.

Natural predation is present from coyotes to small feral dog/coyote
hybrids and recently, there have been cougar and large bobcat spoor in
the area and in other areas of the state. Their impact is small
however and the herd keeps growing. Last year was the first open
season on doe and there's talk of another open season on doe this
year.

With all due respect to Harry, feeding the deer is a incredibly
ignorant thing to do. Quite beyond taking them to relate to humanity,
there is the danger of bacterial infection to humans from exposure to
deer hemorrhagic disease. Not to mention Lyme Disease.

Not a smart thing to do.


We had a choice...feed the homeless deer or feed the homeless
Republicans. We made the right choice.

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:38:57 -0700, Calif Bill wrote:


we are seeing less and less Bambi's in California. Since the eco-nuts
have protected the mountain lion, they have done what cats have always
done. Make lots more cats. Now they run out of deer to eat, and take
out pets and a few hikers. We have endangered Desert Big Horn sheep.
Most every fatality of the decreaseing numbers is caused by mountain
lions. Which are not that rare here.

All the bureaucracies keep denying, but I've been reading of quite a few sightings of mountain lions east
of the Mississippi. Except for the Florida Panther, mountain lions are supposed to be extirpated in the
east, but I'm starting to doubt it.

On Sep 6, 6:51 am, thunder wrote:
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:38:57 -0700, Calif Bill wrote:
we are seeing less and less Bambi's in California. Since the eco-nuts
have protected the mountain lion, they have done what cats have always
done. Make lots more cats. Now they run out of deer to eat, and take
out pets and a few hikers. We have endangered Desert Big Horn sheep.
Most every fatality of the decreaseing numbers is caused by mountain
lions. Which are not that rare here.

All the bureaucracies keep denying, but I've been reading of quite a few sightings of mountain lions east
of the Mississippi. Except for the Florida Panther, mountain lions are supposed to be extirpated in the
east, but I'm starting to doubt it.

Our local law enforcement was in denial about the coyotes for almost a
decade until one of their wives ended up face to face with one. The
the CT DEP decided to admit to the growing population, and everyone
kind of sighed and moved on. We all knew they were here a decade
before the rangers...

HK wrote:

Some of us have a bit of compassion towards the critters whose habitat
we are destroying. Now, if they were Republicans, hell, let them eat cake.

Harry Krause,
Anyone who really has compassion would never feed any wildlife. You
have seen all of the posts where the experts review how you are actually
hurting the wildlife by feeding them anything, yet you believe you
should be able to do it so you and your wife can look and photograph
the pretty animals, and can pretend you are doing this because you have
compassion.

while I know you are too self centered to make any changes that would
actually be helpful to the wildlife, here is a short article by the
Oregon State University conserving feeding wildlife in your backyard.

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/new...oryType=garden

Many people feed deer, raccoons and other suburban wildlife, thinking
they are helping these animals out by providing food.

Don't feed the wildlife in your yard, say wildlife biologists, including
Oregon State University professor Dan Edge, and Jeff Picton, director of
the Chintimini Wildlife Rehabilitation Center in Corvallis.

Providing food for wild animals is not a good idea because:

Supplemental feeding encourages wildlife to become dependent on handouts
that are not a part of their natural diets.
Juvenile animals become used to depending on humans and may never
develop normal foraging behavior. They could starve if the artificial
food sources are removed. Human foods are usually nutritionally
inadequate for wildlife and may lead to health problems.
Wildlife may lose their fear of humans and pets, leading to unfortunate
encounters with aggressive pets and humans.
Wild animals being fed supplementally may congregate in unnaturally high
numbers, increasing the chances of disease transmission.
To discourage wild animals from foraging near your house, Edge and
Picton recommend that homeowners keep garbage cans tightly shut. Rinse
cans and bottles for recycling thoroughly before putting them out for
curbside pick up.

Keep your compost pile fenced from animals. This may not keep all
animals (such as rodents) out, but it will help. Or used a closed
compost container.

Feed your pets indoors, or take outdoor food bowls in at night.

Put livestock and poultry in pens at night.

thunder wrote:
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:38:57 -0700, Calif Bill wrote:


we are seeing less and less Bambi's in California. Since the eco-nuts
have protected the mountain lion, they have done what cats have always
done. Make lots more cats. Now they run out of deer to eat, and take
out pets and a few hikers. We have endangered Desert Big Horn sheep.
Most every fatality of the decreaseing numbers is caused by mountain
lions. Which are not that rare here.

All the bureaucracies keep denying, but I've been reading of quite a few sightings of mountain lions east
of the Mississippi. Except for the Florida Panther, mountain lions are supposed to be extirpated in the
east, but I'm starting to doubt it.


It's nature's way of taking care of overpopulation by humans.

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 10:51:40 -0000, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:38:57 -0700, Calif Bill wrote:


we are seeing less and less Bambi's in California. Since the eco-nuts
have protected the mountain lion, they have done what cats have always
done. Make lots more cats. Now they run out of deer to eat, and take
out pets and a few hikers. We have endangered Desert Big Horn sheep.
Most every fatality of the decreaseing numbers is caused by mountain
lions. Which are not that rare here.

All the bureaucracies keep denying, but I've been reading of quite a few sightings of mountain lions east
of the Mississippi. Except for the Florida Panther, mountain lions are supposed to be extirpated in the
east, but I'm starting to doubt it.

Don't EVEN get me started on that.

Ooops - to late. :)

Three years ago when I still had Duke Dogge Dog, I got a call from TK
up the street asking me to bring my M1 carbine up because he had a big
cat in his heifer pen. I said you mean bobcat, and he said no -
mountain lion.

Uh uh...

So I grabbed the gun, put Duke in the truck and we took off. Got to
the house and TK was there pointing towards the pen. I was hundred
yards off, grabbed my binoculars and sure as hell, mountain lion
toying with a heifer in the corner of the pen. By the time I loaded
the M1, the thing took off into the woods heading towards my pond.
Duke got a good sniff of the spoor and we started tracking it. Found
some paw prints in the mud by my pond - definetly a large cat and it
weren't no bobcat. Lost it in the woods behind the airport about a
mile from where we started along the Pomfret line.

So as we were walking back, I heard a scream - big cat. I know what
one sounds like because I've had an up close and personal encounter
with one in Idaho - this one was PO'd. It was off to the Northwest of
where we were, but close, so we started in that direction. After a
couple of miles of hiking, we found cat spoor and a deer drag. Ain't
no bobcat going to be doing that. Found the deer which had a big
chunk out of it, cat spoor all over the place - no cat.

So after getting back, called DEP. Gave them the whole story, TK had
some blurry images of the cat in the pen - they told me it was a big
bobcat. Told me that the eastern mountain lion was extinct and that I
was mistaken in my ID. The deer? Feral dogs or coydogs.

Two years ago, found another set of tracks and one of the local
farmers reported seeing one while haying along a woods line. DEP says
no - bobcat.

Last year, seventeen reports of a big cat (and cats in several reports
that I know of) being spotted in the immediate area - nope, bobcats.
Show them pictures of the spoor - nope bobcats. Sent the pictures to
the Smithsonian for ID - mountain lion. DEP - nope, bobcats.

They absoutely refuse to believe that there are mountain lions in the
area even with direct evidence from experienced outdoorsmen. They
won't support any research or even tracking. Before Duke died, I
offered to bring him anywhere they had a report to track and ID, nope
- not interested. One of Mrs. Waves's colleagues has a brother-in-law
who is a professional tracker from Wyoming and he's said mountain
lion. Nope - bobcat.

I don't know what their problems is, but when it takes a kid or small
child, I'm not going to say I told you so.

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 11:14:18 -0000,
wrote:

On Sep 6, 6:51 am, thunder wrote:
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:38:57 -0700, Calif Bill wrote:
we are seeing less and less Bambi's in California. Since the eco-nuts
have protected the mountain lion, they have done what cats have always
done. Make lots more cats. Now they run out of deer to eat, and take
out pets and a few hikers. We have endangered Desert Big Horn sheep.
Most every fatality of the decreaseing numbers is caused by mountain
lions. Which are not that rare here.

All the bureaucracies keep denying, but I've been reading of quite a few sightings of mountain lions east
of the Mississippi. Except for the Florida Panther, mountain lions are supposed to be extirpated in the
east, but I'm starting to doubt it.

Our local law enforcement was in denial about the coyotes for almost a
decade until one of their wives ended up face to face with one. The
the CT DEP decided to admit to the growing population, and everyone
kind of sighed and moved on. We all knew they were here a decade
before the rangers...

HAH!!!

When Duke was alive and I was still an active hunter, Duke, Skye and I
used to walk the woods over by the Thompson Dam. One day we stumbled
onto a small den of coyotes. We backed out as there were pups in the
den and Mom was not happy.

Reported it to the Rangers and was told we were mistaken - must have
been foxes. Offered to take them out to the den, but they weren't
interested.

Foxes my ass. :)

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 10:51:40 -0000, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:38:57 -0700, Calif Bill wrote:


we are seeing less and less Bambi's in California. Since the eco-nuts
have protected the mountain lion, they have done what cats have always
done. Make lots more cats. Now they run out of deer to eat, and take
out pets and a few hikers. We have endangered Desert Big Horn sheep.
Most every fatality of the decreaseing numbers is caused by mountain
lions. Which are not that rare here.

All the bureaucracies keep denying, but I've been reading of quite a few
sightings of mountain lions east
of the Mississippi. Except for the Florida Panther, mountain lions are
supposed to be extirpated in the
east, but I'm starting to doubt it.

Don't EVEN get me started on that.

Ooops - to late. :)

Three years ago when I still had Duke Dogge Dog, I got a call from TK
up the street asking me to bring my M1 carbine up because he had a big
cat in his heifer pen. I said you mean bobcat, and he said no -
mountain lion.

Uh uh...


We're hearing the same denial from the NY DEC, despite some rather large
evidence from experienced trackers.

When the occasional hippy tells me I'm paranoid for carrying a gun when I'm
hiking into remote fishing areas, I am tempted to pee on their shoes.

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:05:42 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 10:51:40 -0000, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:38:57 -0700, Calif Bill wrote:


we are seeing less and less Bambi's in California. Since the eco-nuts
have protected the mountain lion, they have done what cats have always
done. Make lots more cats. Now they run out of deer to eat, and take
out pets and a few hikers. We have endangered Desert Big Horn sheep.
Most every fatality of the decreaseing numbers is caused by mountain
lions. Which are not that rare here.

All the bureaucracies keep denying, but I've been reading of quite a few
sightings of mountain lions east
of the Mississippi. Except for the Florida Panther, mountain lions are
supposed to be extirpated in the
east, but I'm starting to doubt it.

Don't EVEN get me started on that.

Ooops - to late. :)

Three years ago when I still had Duke Dogge Dog, I got a call from TK
up the street asking me to bring my M1 carbine up because he had a big
cat in his heifer pen. I said you mean bobcat, and he said no -
mountain lion.

Uh uh...

We're hearing the same denial from the NY DEC, despite some rather large
evidence from experienced trackers.

When the occasional hippy tells me I'm paranoid for carrying a gun when I'm
hiking into remote fishing areas, I am tempted to pee on their shoes.

You laugh, but State surveyors have started carrying .45 Glocks. And
one of the local engineering firms have their surveyors carry 9mm
Glocks when they are working in the woods.

Nothing to do with mountain lions though. :)

Uh uh...