On May 31, 5:10?pm, John H. wrote:
On 31 May 2007 15:31:54 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:





On May 30, 7:36?pm, animal05 wrote:
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/t...cle.aspx?story...

For thousands of years, governments have proclaimed "give us more
power, surrender some of your goods and/or liberties, and in return we
promise to protect you from enemies both foreign and domestic"
It's been a theme song for people trying to establish fascist,
oppressive, totalitarianist regimes since Alexander marched on Persia.

One of these days more people will wake up and realize that what we
mostly need protection from *is* the darn government.

They'll put a "tracking chip" in my boat over my dead body.

The argument "If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to
fear" just doesn't wash with me. I "fear" a society in which we all
become property of the state. The logical step beyond monitoring where
we come and go and when is then to begin dictating when and where we
*can* come and go. The step beyond that is the creation of records
detailing comings and goings that may *never* have occured-- framing a
political opponent for a crime he or she did not commit isn't exactly
an original idea.

No tracking chip in my boat.....(although they may already have chips
in every boat, home, vehicle, etc in the country)...at least not
knowingly or voluntarily. I'd rather have 100 terrorists loose in the
country (as horrible as that would absolutely be) than give up a
single shred of constitutionally guaranteed freedom in exchange for a
promise to protect us from the bad guys.

Chuck, if chips are put in every boat, thousands of folks will be hired to
monitor them. The size of the government will increase by leaps and bounds.
Taxes will be raised tremendously. I would think any self-respecting
liberal would love the idea!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

With all due respect, John, that's because you use a highly biased
definition of "liberal". Not your fault, you're simply repeating
something you hear all day every day.

From my liberal perspective, there are two primary concepts of a
progressive society.

One is equal opportunity....(every new born baby should have the same
opportunities as any other new born baby to become educated, apply
self discipline and hard work to achieve, and perhaps ultimately
prosper- without respect to race, religion, gender, parents' social
status, etc).

The other is maximized personal freedom. Government has no business
abridging any of the rights outlined in the Constitution, even those
rights (like keeping and bearing arms, or freedom of and/or from
religion) that certain segments of society sort of wish would go away.

I think you'd be surprised at the number of liberals who would like to
see a small government, simply because we don't want to be messed with
and government at all levels and by both parties has proven to be
patently dishonest and entirely unworthy of trust.

Bringing it 'round to my boat: If you're the government, you just
don't want to mess with my boat. Doesn't matter if you're GWB,
Hillary, Barak, Mitt, McCain, or whoever...stay the hell away from my
boat.

One of the reasons that a lot of people gravitate to boating is that
it is an environment in which you get to take greater personal
responsibility for your own welfare. If I neglect inspecting and
maintaining systems aboard my boat- it's me and my family at risk more
than anybody else.
When underway, there's no traffic sign every 50 feet listing all the
"thou shalts and shalt nots", I have to make good decisions based on
what I observe going on around me rather than on what some traffic
sign has to say.

I find the concept of placing a transponder on my boat so that the
government can keep track of where I go and when a gross violation of
privacy as well as an insult. Screw 'em if they try, and regardless of
whichever gang of thieves is in office at that moment. :-)

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...


I find the concept of placing a transponder on my boat so that the
government can keep track of where I go and when a gross violation of
privacy as well as an insult. Screw 'em if they try, and regardless of
whichever gang of thieves is in office at that moment. :-)


Many newer automobiles and trucks have GPS devices that transmit your
location, speed, etc. to whoever is interested and can receive the data.

Freedom and equal opportunity with personal assumption of responsibility are
rights well worth protecting and improving upon. An equal rights welfare
state simply because you exist is not because in the end freedom is lost and
opportunity is determined and controlled by those with power.

Eisboch

On May 31, 5:54�pm, "RCE" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

ups.com...



I find the concept of placing a transponder on my boat so that the
government can keep track of where I go and when a gross violation of
privacy as well as an insult. Screw 'em if they try, and regardless of
whichever gang of thieves is in office at that moment. :-)

Many newer automobiles and trucks have GPS devices that transmit your
location, speed, etc. to whoever is interested and can receive the data.

Freedom and equal opportunity with personal assumption of responsibility are
rights well worth protecting and improving upon. *An equal rights welfare
state simply because you exist is not because in the end freedom is lost and
opportunity is determined and controlled by those with power.

Eisboch

We probably agree quite a bit here. Nobody should be the beneficiary
of government largesse or fed from a public trough due solely to an
accident of birth or station in life, whether it be high or low.

That's why boating makes so darn much sense in life. You're more the
master of your own fate than in most other pursuits.

On Thu, 31 May 2007 17:32:21 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:
- Show quoted text -

With all due respect, John, that's because you use a highly biased
definition of "liberal". Not your fault, you're simply repeating
something you hear all day every day.


Sorry, Chuck. I guess you couldn't see my tongue buried in my cheek. :)

I don't like the idea of transponders in boats either. But, I didn't like
the idea of recorders in my car telling anyone exactly how I've driven for
the last 15000 miles either.

I think the ones coming up with this idea are the same foolish idiots
wanting to inspect every container after it's unloaded in a port. Once
there, it's too late. Once a boat filled with explosives is under a bridge
or alongside a cruise ship, or anchored close to a refinery, it's too late.