Twin engine docking
 

On Thu, 31 May 2007 11:35:58 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 31 May 2007 07:23:30 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 30 May 2007 20:37:52 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 May 2007 20:07:24 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"D.Duck" wrote in message
news:z4ednS8WPaSOkMPbnZ2dnUVZ_uSgnZ2d@gigan ews.com...

Lookie her:

http://www.rider-ed.com/tips/motorcyclestability.htm

Meant to type "Lookie here" .... anyway, the link describes gyroscopic
progression which is why JohnH was correct.

It took a long time to convince Motorcycle Safety Foundation students of
the same thing. The trick was to have them steer with one hand, then the
push right - go right idea begins to stick.

Take another look at that picture on the "lookee here" post.

See anything interesting?

If you are referring to the fact that the front tire seems to be pointing
to the right, yes. It is most likely because the driver has pushed the
right bar to get the bike upright or start a right turn.

Twin engine docking
 

On Thu, 31 May 2007 11:38:03 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:


All due respect John, but I was riding and I've been riding bicycles
for a long time - since I was a kid in fact.

As to speed, there is a long hill with a right hand curve that I use
to build speed for a long straight run - that's where I did my
experimenting.

I didn't hit the ground.

OK, then you unknowingly compensated in some other fashion.

Tom, why the hell would I lie about this? Why would the folks at the
Motorcycle Safety Foundation lie about it?

" “Speed Stabilizes the motorcycle” and “press left, lean left, go left”
are two phrases heard by students taking the MRC:RSS rider course. During
the course students may be told to “trust us on this one...it REALLY works”
Well, it DOES really work, but during the course there is little time to
explain why speed DOES stabilize the motorcycle and yes, you DO press the
left bar to initiate a turn to the left." (from the 'lookie her' site)

Not knowing is not a criminal offense. Hell, most folks don't know this.
One of my brothers, a Harley rider for years, didn't know it. Another, who
was a motorcycle cop, knows it very well!

Twin engine docking
 

On Thu, 31 May 2007 11:39:33 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 31 May 2007 07:37:28 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 31 May 2007 11:02:11 -0000, thunder wrote:

On Wed, 30 May 2007 20:29:19 -0400, Eisboch wrote:


No. On a moving motorcycle, (and I assume a bicycle, although I
haven't tried it) pushing the left handle away from you will cause the
motorcycle to turn towards the left ... same side that you are pushing.
Push on the right ... bike will turn towards the right.

I can see several people are having trouble with this. Don't feel bad.
So did I until I tried it.

It might help to explain, pushing left *initiates* a left turn. I think
everyone understands motorcycles turn by leaning, and pushing left is the
quickest way to get that left-hand lean. If you kept pushing left, you
wouldn't be turning, you would be on the ground, on the left hand side of
the motorcycle of course.

I found this one paragraph from one of your links quite clarifying.

"If we intentionally move the contact patch line from vertically beneath
the Center of Gravity, the bike will start to lean. For example, if while
riding the bike straight ahead, we press on the left bar the front wheel
points to the right. The front wheel tracks to the right (sometimes
called “out tracking”). So the weight of bike and rider is now to the
LEFT of it’s “support” on the ground, the tire contact patches. Because
the weight is to the left, the bike leans to the left. It is important to
note, for a LEFT turn, we initiate a lean to the left by pressing on the
left bar, turning the front wheel to the RIGHT. This is often referred to
as COUNTERSTEERING: a turn to the left initiated by turning the front
wheel to the right."

Yeah, countersteering. Push left - go left. Push right - go right.

Thank you.

Not the same thing. You don't puch left to go left - you push left
to maintain stability in the turn.

Not the same thing.

No, you push left to initiate a left turn. You then push left to go more
sharply, or let up to turn less sharply. If you're in a left turn and want
to quickly go right, then you'll push hard on the right bar.

Twin engine docking
 

On Thu, 31 May 2007 11:41:20 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 31 May 2007 07:39:31 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 31 May 2007 10:31:41 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Wed, 30 May 2007 21:53:43 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

I guess you all will have to just go try it. It's due to the gryoscopic
stability of the bike.

I just returned from my morning bike ride on my brandy new mountain
bike. I push the handle bar left, it goes bicycle goes right. I lean
left, the bicycle goes left.

I think, based on this morning's experiments, that this is one of
those Myths (don't bother - I've already submitted it to Mythbusters)
that is based on observation error.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

Now .... did you know that helicopters were impossible to fly until
gyroscopic progression was recognized and accounted for in the control of
the rotating airfoils?

Yes.

Somehow boating will tie into this somewhere.....

Pontoons on helicopters. And the CG and Navy fly helicopters.

Ipso Facto - QED - boating thread. :)

You gotta have some speed. Try it with one hand, on pavement, with speed.
If you push left you will go left, unless you've figured out a way to go
right while the bike is leaning far to the left!

Sorry John - didn't work that way and never has.

I still say those who are on the left/left side of the argument are
confusing two seperate issues.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

That was Rich. And, it's OK to stick to a wrong story.

But, don't do it in an emergency.

Twin engine docking
 

On Thu, 31 May 2007 07:54:28 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .


Sorry John - didn't work that way and never has.

I still say those who are on the left/left side of the argument are
confusing two seperate issues.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)


Some people should just stick with 4-wheeled Corvettes.

Eisboch :-)


Amen.

Twin engine docking
 

On Thu, 31 May 2007 08:15:52 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 31 May 2007 07:54:28 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


Sorry John - didn't work that way and never has.

I still say those who are on the left/left side of the argument are
confusing two seperate issues.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

Some people should just stick with 4-wheeled Corvettes.

ROTFL!!

Damn straight.

Hey, I'm only here for the discussion. :)

Besides, I'm not a motorcycle person. Hate the things actually.

I regard motorcycle riders in the same vein as PWC riders.

I won't say which vein that is. :)

I was with a customer yesterday who just purchased an '07 Vette. The thing
is keyless and ignition is controlled by a proximity fob. He says the car
rides nicer than his new Silverado and is like night and day (ride wise)
compared to the '02 Vette he traded in.


Cadillac has had that for a couple years now.

Twin engine docking
 

On Thu, 31 May 2007 07:56:03 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 31 May 2007 07:39:31 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 31 May 2007 10:31:41 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Wed, 30 May 2007 21:53:43 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

I guess you all will have to just go try it. It's due to the gryoscopic
stability of the bike.

I just returned from my morning bike ride on my brandy new mountain
bike. I push the handle bar left, it goes bicycle goes right. I lean
left, the bicycle goes left.

I think, based on this morning's experiments, that this is one of
those Myths (don't bother - I've already submitted it to Mythbusters)
that is based on observation error.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

Now .... did you know that helicopters were impossible to fly until
gyroscopic progression was recognized and accounted for in the control
of
the rotating airfoils?

Yes.

Somehow boating will tie into this somewhere.....

Pontoons on helicopters. And the CG and Navy fly helicopters.

Ipso Facto - QED - boating thread. :)

You gotta have some speed. Try it with one hand, on pavement, with speed.
If you push left you will go left, unless you've figured out a way to go
right while the bike is leaning far to the left!

Sorry John - didn't work that way and never has.

I still say those who are on the left/left side of the argument are
confusing two seperate issues.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

To think this all started with a *bicycle* handle bar analogy.....how high
speeds and motorcycles got into the mix is beyond me. ;-)


Because your analogy was backwards.

Twin engine docking
 

On Thu, 31 May 2007 12:45:10 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 31 May 2007 08:12:30 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Thu, 31 May 2007 00:20:34 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Wed, 30 May 2007 20:07:24 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"D.Duck" wrote in message
news:z4ednS8WPaSOkMPbnZ2dnUVZ_uSgnZ2d@giganews .com...

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 May 2007 18:20:52 -0400, "JimH" wrote:

Push left, go left. Push right, go right. Just the opposite of a
tricycle.

Huh?

He's correct. Same on a motorcycle. Push the left handle forward, the
bike will make a left turn. Push the right handle forward, bike turns to
the right.

Try it sometime.

Ok I just did.

Pushing the left handlebar forward moves the front wheel to the right.

Pushing the right handlebar forward moves the front wheel to the left.

That is a ridiculous special case..... if you keep pushing, the
response of the motorcycle will be as above.

This phenomenon is just an exercise in balance control, not steerage.

I've never taken a motorcycle course and being cheap enough, I just
might do that.

I want to see this "taught" myself because I agree with you - it's
more about maintaining momentum and angle of attack in a turn than
actually steering.

Just for you:

http://tinyurl.com/hb7c7

Just enter your state.

Twin engine docking
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 May 2007 08:15:52 -0400, "JimH"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 31 May 2007 07:54:28 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
m...


Sorry John - didn't work that way and never has.

I still say those who are on the left/left side of the argument are
confusing two seperate issues.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

Some people should just stick with 4-wheeled Corvettes.

ROTFL!!

Damn straight.

Hey, I'm only here for the discussion. :)

Besides, I'm not a motorcycle person. Hate the things actually.

I regard motorcycle riders in the same vein as PWC riders.

I won't say which vein that is. :)

I was with a customer yesterday who just purchased an '07 Vette. The
thing
is keyless and ignition is controlled by a proximity fob. He says the car
rides nicer than his new Silverado and is like night and day (ride wise)
compared to the '02 Vette he traded in.

They are very nice and if I could convince Mrs. Wave that I actually
need to purchase one as a long term investment for the kids, I'd be
riding in one right now.

Unfortunately, she ain't buying it.

~~ sigh ~~

Corvettes are the only thing GM ever made worth a damn.

Why are people so fascinated with recumbent cars?

Twin engine docking
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


Sorry John - didn't work that way and never has.

I still say those who are on the left/left side of the argument are
confusing two seperate issues.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)


Some people should just stick with 4-wheeled Corvettes.

Eisboch :-)

One thing is for sure. Push left or right without doing anything else and
you will get a serious rash.
Amen
Brother Jim