Twin engine docking
 

On Thu, 31 May 2007 12:22:28 -0400, "JimH" wrote:



This is just too funny. There is minimal *speed* involved with docking and
bicycle riding. JohnH insists on trying to use high speed motorcycle riding
as his justification that I have it all wrong in my analogy.

From what I have been able to see in this thread, the old man is starting
to act very *Kevinesque* in that he refuses to drop it and admit when *he*
was wrong.



Jimmie, racing has nothing to do with countersteering.

http://www.msgroup.org/TIP163.html

Stay away from motorcycles and bicycles, especially if you are in an
emergency situation, unless you're walking the bike of course.

Twin engine docking
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 31, 6:31 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 30 May 2007 21:53:43 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

I guess you all will have to just go try it. It's due to the gryoscopic
stability of the bike.

I just returned from my morning bike ride on my brandy new mountain
bike. I push the handle bar left, it goes bicycle goes right. I lean
left, the bicycle goes left.

I think, based on this morning's experiments, that this is one of
those Myths (don't bother - I've already submitted it to Mythbusters)
that is based on observation error.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

Now .... did you know that helicopters were impossible to fly until
gyroscopic progression was recognized and accounted for in the control
of
the rotating airfoils?

Yes.

Somehow boating will tie into this somewhere.....

Pontoons on helicopters. And the CG and Navy fly helicopters.

Ipso Facto - QED - boating thread. :)

Everyone who believes that a bike will turn left when the left
handlebar is pushed foward, do this:
Go down the street, and find a 90 degree left hand turn, just like a
city street. Approach at a normal speed for the turn, push the left
handlebar forward, the right back and tell me what happens.

I missed the turn.

Twin engine docking
 

On Thu, 31 May 2007 12:40:30 -0400, "D.Duck" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 31 May 2007 12:07:52 -0400, "D.Duck" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 May 2007 09:20:46 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Thu, 31 May 2007 08:47:40 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 31 May 2007 08:12:30 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:



That is a ridiculous special case..... if you keep pushing, the
response of the motorcycle will be as above.

This phenomenon is just an exercise in balance control, not steerage.

Check out my reply to Tom, or just go to:

http://www.msgroup.org/TIP163.html

Why would Eisboch and I lie about this?

1) Don't be so sensitive.... nobody is calling you a liar.

2) Maybe I don't understand what you are saying. How can you:

a) Be moving
b) push on a right handlebar, causing it to move a little
c) continue pushing on the handlebar
d) have the handlebar not continue moving forward or stay in position
in the direction it is pushed, thus not moving the tire to the left
e) hence, not causing the motorcycle to turn left?

If you are moving at speed and do what you describe, you will move the
front tire to the left, but you will be in a right hand turn or sliding
on
the pavement. Put on some leathers, borrow someone's bike, and try it!

Now, if you are saying that this has something to do with a brief push
on the handlebar and an ensuing off-balance condition causing a lean,
which then causes a turn, I understand that!

A brief push will cause the bike to lean in the direction of the turn
and
then turn, if the push is continued. If the push is too hard for too
long,
you will end up on the ground, on your left side.

If so, I return to my original position that this special case is way
more about understanding balance on a motorcycle than it has with
steerage. Assuming the given that *any* lean on a motorcycle will
cause a turn.

3) Somewhere, I lost the connection between this phenomenon and
docking?

JimH used an analogy of turning a bicycle when explaining how to dock a
boat. His analogy was backwards.

Go check out the site I gave Tom. It explains countersteering when
riding
a
two-wheeled vehicle with a raked front end.

You keep talking about "at speed". Just what is the speed you're
referring
to?


Faster than walking, say 15 mph or more. At a slow enough speed, like
walking speed, the rake of the front end makes no difference in turning.
If
you push left, you'll go right, just like a tricycle.

Well thank you very much. I thought I had been steering a bicycle wrong all
these years.


No, like most of us, including me, you probably just didn't pay attention
to what was actually happening. I didn't realize I was 'countersteering' a
motorcycle until I took a rider's course. I'd been riding a motorcycle for
several years, but took the course with my wife before we bought her a
bike.

Twin engine docking
 

On 31 May 2007 10:11:02 -0700, basskisser wrote:

On May 31, 6:31 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 30 May 2007 21:53:43 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

I guess you all will have to just go try it. It's due to the gryoscopic
stability of the bike.

I just returned from my morning bike ride on my brandy new mountain
bike. I push the handle bar left, it goes bicycle goes right. I lean
left, the bicycle goes left.

I think, based on this morning's experiments, that this is one of
those Myths (don't bother - I've already submitted it to Mythbusters)
that is based on observation error.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

Now .... did you know that helicopters were impossible to fly until
gyroscopic progression was recognized and accounted for in the control of
the rotating airfoils?

Yes.

Somehow boating will tie into this somewhere.....

Pontoons on helicopters. And the CG and Navy fly helicopters.

Ipso Facto - QED - boating thread. :)

Everyone who believes that a bike will turn left when the left
handlebar is pushed foward, do this:
Go down the street, and find a 90 degree left hand turn, just like a
city street. Approach at a normal speed for the turn, push the left
handlebar forward, the right back and tell me what happens.

The bike turns left.

Twin engine docking
 

On Thu, 31 May 2007 14:16:20 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 31 May 2007 10:45:32 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:



No, I've spent many hours teaching prospective motorcycle riders how to
ride.


Lord help us all!


I didn't know any of you *sp's* believed. That's nice to hear.


"sp's" ???


Ask your idol.

Twin engine docking
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 May 2007 14:08:14 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

Why are people so fascinated with recumbent cars?

Because you can recumbent in them?
Of course, but I prefer a couch or bed to recumbent in.

Twin engine docking
 

"John H." wrote in message
...


No, like most of us, including me, you probably just didn't pay attention
to what was actually happening. I didn't realize I was 'countersteering' a
motorcycle until I took a rider's course. I'd been riding a motorcycle for
several years, but took the course with my wife before we bought her a
bike.


Did you take this 'course' before ...or after.. you taught others?

Twin engine docking
 

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 May 2007 14:16:20 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 31 May 2007 10:45:32 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:



No, I've spent many hours teaching prospective motorcycle riders how
to
ride.


Lord help us all!


I didn't know any of you *sp's* believed. That's nice to hear.


"sp's" ???


Ask your idol.


I thought the church preached against 'false idols'. You should know better
than that. BTW what's with this 'American Idol' and 'Canadian Idol'.
I certainly don't idolize any singer/actor..whatever.

Twin engine docking
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"John H." wrote in message
...


No, like most of us, including me, you probably just didn't pay attention
to what was actually happening. I didn't realize I was 'countersteering'
a
motorcycle until I took a rider's course. I'd been riding a motorcycle
for
several years, but took the course with my wife before we bought her a
bike.


Did you take this 'course' before ...or after.. you taught others?


It is obvious that John Herring needs to take a toddlers bicycle training
course as he still does not get it.

I hope the old man did not teach his grandchildren, great grandchildren and
great, great grandchildren how to ride a bicycle. If he did, they all must
have spent time in the emergency ward at the local hospital.

Twin engine docking
 

On Thu, 31 May 2007 17:54:10 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .


No, like most of us, including me, you probably just didn't pay attention
to what was actually happening. I didn't realize I was 'countersteering' a
motorcycle until I took a rider's course. I'd been riding a motorcycle for
several years, but took the course with my wife before we bought her a
bike.


Did you take this 'course' before ...or after.. you taught others?


Well before. I took the instructor's course while in Germany, several years
later. Why do you ask?