On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:27:35 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 07:15:19 -0500, JLH wrote:


First, let me lay down the only essential requirements for the boat
1. the boat is seaworthy of typical Gulf of Mexico offshore excursions
- non-hurricane but otherwise expected seas.
2. two people can live aboard without tripping over each other.
3. cost is no more than $30k, shipshape.
That's it.
What hull/engine combos offer the best MPG?
Anybody?

Thanks,

--Vic



It seems like you're asking a hell of a lot for $30K!

After some initial looking around, it appears not.
The MacGregor 26 Chuck mentioned, new and powered is $30k
I see Albin 27's around $30k, but they're pretty old and not suitable
for mileage and other reasons.
I'll keep looking, but I think $30k will do, though I'll shoot for
less.
I ran across a good review Chuck did of the Allweather that tak
mentioned, and following that thread gave me some more avenues
to search. Since I like to fish, the Allweather doesn't seem my cup
of tea, but has put me on the track of a small deisel/full
displacement
hull that will meet my requirements. If it can sail too, all the
better. Even the MacGregor isn't out of the question, though
the "real" sailors sneer at it. Hey, I might just become the Skipper
of the sailing world!

--Vic

Well, whatever you end up with, I wish you good luck at it!
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 11:33:02 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:27:35 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Even the MacGregor isn't out of the question, though
the "real" sailors sneer at it. Hey, I might just become the Skipper
of the sailing world!

One of the best fishermen I know often fishes off his 40' Beneteau and
has a ball doing it.

Hey, if that's what you want - go for it.

Just be aware that sailing is work.

Not really, Tom.
After wading through many past posts about the MacGregor,
among them an excellent review done by Chuck, according
to the salts I will never be sailing on the MacGregor.
Hell, I can have the motor hanging lifeless on the transom, 6 feet of
dagger board down, 300 sq ft of sail filled with air, and be clipping
along at 8 knots or so, but I won't be sailing on the MacGregor.
So that means no work! Pretty neat (-:
I'm not done thinking and learning yet, but right now that MacGregor
26 is at the top of my list, and I'm going to check
them out soon.
With the board up it drafts 18" or less, making it a skinny water
sailer, suitable for exploring the Keys among other spots, and a sight
more comfortable and economical to reach the Keys from Port Charlotte
than pounding down there in an open skiff.
But there might be something I'll like better as I continue the quest.
Did have a hankering for a little Yanmar diesel instead of an
outboard. Flip-flop warning.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 11:33:02 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:27:35 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Even the MacGregor isn't out of the question, though
the "real" sailors sneer at it. Hey, I might just become the Skipper
of the sailing world!
One of the best fishermen I know often fishes off his 40' Beneteau and
has a ball doing it.

Hey, if that's what you want - go for it.

Just be aware that sailing is work.

Not really, Tom.
After wading through many past posts about the MacGregor,
among them an excellent review done by Chuck, according
to the salts I will never be sailing on the MacGregor.
Hell, I can have the motor hanging lifeless on the transom, 6 feet of
dagger board down, 300 sq ft of sail filled with air, and be clipping
along at 8 knots or so, but I won't be sailing on the MacGregor.
So that means no work! Pretty neat (-:
I'm not done thinking and learning yet, but right now that MacGregor
26 is at the top of my list, and I'm going to check
them out soon.
With the board up it drafts 18" or less, making it a skinny water
sailer, suitable for exploring the Keys among other spots, and a sight
more comfortable and economical to reach the Keys from Port Charlotte
than pounding down there in an open skiff.
But there might be something I'll like better as I continue the quest.
Did have a hankering for a little Yanmar diesel instead of an
outboard. Flip-flop warning.

--Vic


It's a terrible boat. Caveat emptor.

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 10:05:05 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


After wading through many past posts about the MacGregor,
among them an excellent review done by Chuck, according
to the salts I will never be sailing on the MacGregor.
Hell, I can have the motor hanging lifeless on the transom, 6 feet of
dagger board down, 300 sq ft of sail filled with air, and be clipping
along at 8 knots or so, but I won't be sailing on the MacGregor.
So that means no work! Pretty neat (-:

It's a terrible boat. Caveat emptor.

Harry, as the last sentence of the above para I had written:
MacGregors are to "sailors" as Bayliners are to "Krauses."
I snipped it.
Here you are, so that didn't work.
Anyway, thanks for the heads up. I'm far from sold on it.
But if I get one, I sure as hell ain't coming back here.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 10:05:05 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


After wading through many past posts about the MacGregor,
among them an excellent review done by Chuck, according
to the salts I will never be sailing on the MacGregor.
Hell, I can have the motor hanging lifeless on the transom, 6 feet of
dagger board down, 300 sq ft of sail filled with air, and be clipping
along at 8 knots or so, but I won't be sailing on the MacGregor.
So that means no work! Pretty neat (-:
It's a terrible boat. Caveat emptor.

Harry, as the last sentence of the above para I had written:
MacGregors are to "sailors" as Bayliners are to "Krauses."
I snipped it.
Here you are, so that didn't work.
Anyway, thanks for the heads up. I'm far from sold on it.
But if I get one, I sure as hell ain't coming back here.

--Vic


You probably won't be coming back to shore, either. Make sure you file a
float plan.

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 09:04:07 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 11:33:02 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:27:35 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Even the MacGregor isn't out of the question, though
the "real" sailors sneer at it. Hey, I might just become the Skipper
of the sailing world!

One of the best fishermen I know often fishes off his 40' Beneteau and
has a ball doing it.

Hey, if that's what you want - go for it.

Just be aware that sailing is work.

Not really, Tom.
After wading through many past posts about the MacGregor,
among them an excellent review done by Chuck, according
to the salts I will never be sailing on the MacGregor.
Hell, I can have the motor hanging lifeless on the transom, 6 feet of
dagger board down, 300 sq ft of sail filled with air, and be clipping
along at 8 knots or so, but I won't be sailing on the MacGregor.
So that means no work! Pretty neat (-:
I'm not done thinking and learning yet, but right now that MacGregor
26 is at the top of my list, and I'm going to check
them out soon.
With the board up it drafts 18" or less, making it a skinny water
sailer, suitable for exploring the Keys among other spots, and a sight
more comfortable and economical to reach the Keys from Port Charlotte
than pounding down there in an open skiff.
But there might be something I'll like better as I continue the quest.
Did have a hankering for a little Yanmar diesel instead of an
outboard. Flip-flop warning.

Hey - what ever floats your boat.

Get it? Floats your boat?

Um...never mind.

Hey, you are doing the right thing exploring options and what you
think you can handle.

Whatever you end up with, it will be what you want.

Good luck and have fun - let us know.

By the way, the little Yanmar diesel is a great idea.

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 16:36:42 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Whatever you end up with, it will be what you want.

Well, that's stretching it a bit.

Good luck and have fun - let us know.

Sure, and if it's a MacGregor, I'll going to name it Parker.

--Vic

On Mar 6, 7:39�am, Harry Krause wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 10:05:05 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

After wading through many past posts about the MacGregor,
among them an excellent *review done by Chuck, according
to the salts I will never be sailing on the MacGregor.
Hell, I can have the motor hanging lifeless on the transom, 6 feet of
dagger board down, 300 sq ft of sail filled with air, and be clipping
along at 8 knots or so, but I won't be sailing on the MacGregor. *
So that means no work! *Pretty neat (-:
It's a terrible boat. Caveat emptor.

Harry, as the last sentence of the above para I had written:
MacGregors are to "sailors" as Bayliners are to "Krauses."
I snipped it.
Here you are, so that didn't work.
Anyway, thanks for the heads up. *I'm far from sold on it.
But if I get one, I sure as hell ain't coming back here.

--Vic

You probably won't be coming back to shore, either. Make sure you file a
float plan.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sounds like Sir Krause of the Bayliner Jousts.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you are wrong to state that a
MacGregor is a patently unsafe or life threatening choice. Like any
boat, it must be used with an eye to the weather. I can't speak for
other parts of the country, but in the Pacific Northwest these are
extremely popular boats. We boat snobs forget that a lot of families
don't have $100k or more to put into a boat, yet want to get out on
the water and enjoy some time together. Enter the MacGregor; for about
$30,000 a family can own a brand new boat that will motor fast enough
to do some wakeboarding behind and sail well enough to enjoy sailing
(the local dealer has one that he takes out to our Duck Dodge series
of informal sailboat races in the summer, and he actually wins from
time to time). As a family boat it has a lot to recommend it; sleeps
at least four without getting ridiculously creative, adequate galley,
enclosed head, etc.

The MacGregors are shallow draft, but they can sail by virtue of a
retractable daggerboard keel and a water ballast system. I'd shudder
to think how a similar sized power boat, (like the YOHO) would do in
the stability department if you ran up an equivalent mast and
introduced the same sail load. *that* would be dangerous. :-)

Would I go offshore in a gale in a MacGregor? Heck no. Nor would I go
offshore in a gale in my little 36-foot tug boat. Nor should you go
offshore in a gale in your boat.

With the literally hundreds of these little boats plying the waters of
this region
on a regular basis, we would be well aware if they were unsafe for our
regional conditions (again, I don't claim to offer an opinion about
their suitability for the OP's intended cruising region). The only
real knocks launched against the boat
are from: 1)a few High-nosed sailors, who eschew anything that's not
as "technical" a boat as they feel it should be- (usually including
all versions of a sailboat except the one they happen to own), 2: a
few Beer-fueled powerboaters who are suspicious of anything with a
mast, and often derisive of most other boat brands except the one they
happen to own- (its a personal insecurity issue, I think).

I'd recommend that if the OP is interested in MacGregor he should look
for an owner's group on the web and see what actual users of that boat
have experienced in the region where he's considering doing his
boating. Until one has been there, done that- or until there's a
disproportionate number of rescue incidents or other objective
evidence, there's no basis to pronounce a boat unsafe for a specific
intended use. That doesn't mean the boat is automatically
suitable....simply that one should investigate thoroughly with an open
mind before predicting that the boat would be unable to make it back
to shore.

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Mar 6, 7:39�am, Harry Krause wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 10:05:05 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:
After wading through many past posts about the MacGregor,
among them an excellent �review done by Chuck, according
to the salts I will never be sailing on the MacGregor.
Hell, I can have the motor hanging lifeless on the transom, 6 feet of
dagger board down, 300 sq ft of sail filled with air, and be clipping
along at 8 knots or so, but I won't be sailing on the MacGregor. �
So that means no work! �Pretty neat (-:
It's a terrible boat. Caveat emptor.
Harry, as the last sentence of the above para I had written:
MacGregors are to "sailors" as Bayliners are to "Krauses."
I snipped it.
Here you are, so that didn't work.
Anyway, thanks for the heads up. �I'm far from sold on it.
But if I get one, I sure as hell ain't coming back here.
--Vic
You probably won't be coming back to shore, either. Make sure you file a
float plan.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sounds like Sir Krause of the Bayliner Jousts.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you are wrong to state that a
MacGregor is a patently unsafe or life threatening choice. Like any
boat, it must be used with an eye to the weather.




http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?i...43e174duw8.jpg




"See, as you push the water deeper under water it get's less dense and
becomes buoyant. Fortunately, water is still heavier than air, otherwise
all the buoyant water from the bottom of the ocean would float right up
out of the water instead of sinking in the air."

On Mar 6, 9:39?am, Harry Krause wrote:


http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?i...43e174duw8.jpg

"See, as you push the water deeper under water it get's less dense and
becomes buoyant. Fortunately, water is still heavier than air, otherwise
all the buoyant water from the bottom of the ocean would float right up
out of the water instead of sinking in the air."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well there you go, Harry. As I recall, you often criticize boats for
lack of flotation. Perhaps you posted that link to suggest that
MacGregors are "unsinkable"?

I suspect the photo has been digitally created, based on visual clues
such as the unconcerned demeanor of the guy at the helm and the group
on thecabin top that appear to be discussing something to do with the
mast. If I were on a boat sinking at the dock, you can bet I'd be
getting off the boat and onto the dock in a hurry. Doesn't seem to be
any sense of urgency or any attention to the possible cause of the
dilemna apparent in any of the people in the picture.

Even if the photo is legit, it certainly doesn't qualify as a
collector's item. There are thousands of photos in circulation showing
virtually every sort of popularly sold boat in distress. I got a good
shot one day of a Hatteras on fire, but I don't use that as a basis to
pronounce all Hatteras (Hatteri?) "fire traps".

Vic may or may not finally conclude that a MacGregor is the right boat
for his purposes, but he should arrive at that conclusion based on an
objective assessment of personal prefereneces and local conditions
rather than propaganda photos.