I hate buying fuel, and I hate using it. It's possible I may end with
a sail boat, but since I've only had a tiny bit of experience crewing
sail, and I'm a bit long in the tooth, motor is probably my future.
From reading and googling this group I've begun to open my mind to
other types of boats beside the Carolina Skiff I had originally set my
sights on.
From reading the C. Skiff group on msn it's apparent that the skiffs
get very good mileage, and are all-around good near-shore fishing
boats.
But the accounts there are anecdotal, and the mileage measurements
are always done with a lot of on-plane time included.
Planing at 30+ is fine, but frankly, I'm never in a hurry. I can get
speed kicks at Great America should the urge come. It doesn't.
So I'm starting to think I might be better suited to a slow boat with
some measure of livability that slower travel requires, especially
since that boat might also afford more big water capability than a
skiff provides.
I'm pretty flexible about the comfort factor, so there's no saying
a 24-26' skiff can't be rigged for a measure of livability.
By "livability" I mean 3-4 nights. I'm not a masochist.
I found a fishing cap'n running a 24' CS out of Ft Myers and plan
to charter him next month or late this month to get a feel for
that boat and the Charlotte Harbor waters.
In the meantime, I'm going to get a bit of education on other hull
types. Googling this group hasn't provided much I can use, maybe
because the answer can't be pat, or maybe I just missed the answer.
DSK seems to know a lot about this, and maybe Chuck, though he usually
deals with more boat than I can afford.
First, let me lay down the only essential requirements for the boat
1. the boat is seaworthy of typical Gulf of Mexico offshore excursions
- non-hurricane but otherwise expected seas.
2. two people can live aboard without tripping over each other.
3. cost is no more than $30k, shipshape.
That's it.
What hull/engine combos offer the best MPG?
Anybody?

Thanks,

--Vic

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 23:46:00 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

I found a fishing cap'n running a 24' CS out of Ft Myers and plan
to charter him next month or late this month to get a feel for
that boat and the Charlotte Harbor waters.

That's always a good idea - gives you something to base an opinion on.
You might also want to do this with other types of boats.
..
First, let me lay down the only essential requirements for the boat

1. the boat is seaworthy of typical Gulf of Mexico offshore excursions
- non-hurricane but otherwise expected seas.

First of all, you need to understand some terminology.

Chine: The line of intersection of the bottom with the side of a vee
or flat bottomed boat. There are two types in normal recreational
boats - hard chine where the hull and bottom are at a sharp angle and
soft chine where the hull and bottom are rounded.

Deadrise: Degrees of the V-shape hull angle measured at the transom of
planing powerboats. Just as it states, the V-shape determines how the
boat moves through the water. A sharper V will mean that the boat
will cut waves easier than a flat bottom boat which will pound.

Freeboard: The vertical distance from the waterline to the top of the
deck at side. Pretty simple concept - it's the "floor" to the top of
the gunwale. The more you have, the better off you are in a small
boat.

Ride pad: Ride pads are used to ensure that you get a clean edge to
spill water off the ride areas to reduce drag and increase speed. This
is basically a semi-flat area starting about a 1/3 of the way down a
hull.

Displacement hull: The displacement hull will always displace (push
away) water equal to its total weight.

Planing hull:When not moving it is, in effect, a displacement hull. As
power and speed increase a planing hull lifts itself up on top of its
own bow wave. This causes the boat to displace less water. The result,
is much less wetted surface on the hull bottom, meaning much less
friction as well.

There are variations on these two concepts - the semi-displacement
hull which is also a compromise.

As you can probably envision, different hulls ride spectacularly
different. Flat bottomed (hard or soft chine) boats ride like trucks
in any kind of weather or sea state. V-hulls ride better because they
tend to move through the water when it's basic state changes (as in
waves, chop, etc.) instead of riding strictly on top and pounding.
Modified V-hulls are exactly that - partly V-hulls with moderate
deadrise pads they are a compromise.

Most planing hulls are hard chined with a deep vee. For offshore
work, it's best in a small boat to have a V with a deadrise of 20-24
degrees with at least 24 to 30"" of freeboard- the more the better.

Some modified V-hull boats have what are called "strakes" which looks
like strips or on my Ranger, are steps built into the hull which
provide turning "grip" in sharp turns.

2. two people can live aboard without tripping over each other.

You are looking in the 24/26' range at a minimum, 28/30' would be just
about right.

3. cost is no more than $30k, shipshape.

Well, you've set down some conditions that might not be achievable
when it comes to price. 30K is probably going to buy you something
older with minor/major problems. Which basically means you are
probably in the "fixer-upper" category which isn't a bad thing if you
are the least bit handy.

With this in mind, and assuming you aren't going to trailer the boat
there are older manufacturers you might want to look for - like
Uniflite.

http://tinyurl.com/2lytpq

Even older, these are sound boats and have a terrific reputation.
There is a rabid Uniflite group out there somewhere, but I can't find
the reference at the moment - it's still early in the morning.

But that's basically what you are looking for - older boat in decent
shape.

What hull/engine combos offer the best MPG?

Semi-V hull with outboards in particular ETECs, Yamaha HPDI or Merc.
Optimax direct injected two strokes. Of those three, the ETECs have
the best overall power to weight ratio with the best mileage.

I can prove that. :)

Hope that helps.

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 11:46:30 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 23:46:00 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

I found a fishing cap'n running a 24' CS out of Ft Myers and plan
to charter him next month or late this month to get a feel for
that boat and the Charlotte Harbor waters.

That's always a good idea - gives you something to base an opinion on.
You might also want to do this with other types of boats.
.
First, let me lay down the only essential requirements for the boat

1. the boat is seaworthy of typical Gulf of Mexico offshore excursions
- non-hurricane but otherwise expected seas.

First of all, you need to understand some terminology.

Chine: The line of intersection of the bottom with the side of a vee
or flat bottomed boat. There are two types in normal recreational
boats - hard chine where the hull and bottom are at a sharp angle and
soft chine where the hull and bottom are rounded.

Deadrise: Degrees of the V-shape hull angle measured at the transom of
planing powerboats. Just as it states, the V-shape determines how the
boat moves through the water. A sharper V will mean that the boat
will cut waves easier than a flat bottom boat which will pound.

Freeboard: The vertical distance from the waterline to the top of the
deck at side. Pretty simple concept - it's the "floor" to the top of
the gunwale. The more you have, the better off you are in a small
boat.

Ride pad: Ride pads are used to ensure that you get a clean edge to
spill water off the ride areas to reduce drag and increase speed. This
is basically a semi-flat area starting about a 1/3 of the way down a
hull.

Displacement hull: The displacement hull will always displace (push
away) water equal to its total weight.

Planing hull:When not moving it is, in effect, a displacement hull. As
power and speed increase a planing hull lifts itself up on top of its
own bow wave. This causes the boat to displace less water. The result,
is much less wetted surface on the hull bottom, meaning much less
friction as well.

There are variations on these two concepts - the semi-displacement
hull which is also a compromise.

As you can probably envision, different hulls ride spectacularly
different. Flat bottomed (hard or soft chine) boats ride like trucks
in any kind of weather or sea state. V-hulls ride better because they
tend to move through the water when it's basic state changes (as in
waves, chop, etc.) instead of riding strictly on top and pounding.
Modified V-hulls are exactly that - partly V-hulls with moderate
deadrise pads they are a compromise.

Most planing hulls are hard chined with a deep vee. For offshore
work, it's best in a small boat to have a V with a deadrise of 20-24
degrees with at least 24 to 30"" of freeboard- the more the better.

Some modified V-hull boats have what are called "strakes" which looks
like strips or on my Ranger, are steps built into the hull which
provide turning "grip" in sharp turns.

2. two people can live aboard without tripping over each other.

You are looking in the 24/26' range at a minimum, 28/30' would be just
about right.

3. cost is no more than $30k, shipshape.

Well, you've set down some conditions that might not be achievable
when it comes to price. 30K is probably going to buy you something
older with minor/major problems. Which basically means you are
probably in the "fixer-upper" category which isn't a bad thing if you
are the least bit handy.

With this in mind, and assuming you aren't going to trailer the boat
there are older manufacturers you might want to look for - like
Uniflite.

http://tinyurl.com/2lytpq

Even older, these are sound boats and have a terrific reputation.
There is a rabid Uniflite group out there somewhere, but I can't find
the reference at the moment - it's still early in the morning.

But that's basically what you are looking for - older boat in decent
shape.

What hull/engine combos offer the best MPG?

Semi-V hull with outboards in particular ETECs, Yamaha HPDI or Merc.
Optimax direct injected two strokes. Of those three, the ETECs have
the best overall power to weight ratio with the best mileage.

I can prove that. :)

Hope that helps.

Thanks, I'm sure it will. After I digest it (-:
Later,

--Vic

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 23:46:00 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

I hate buying fuel, and I hate using it. It's possible I may end with
a sail boat, but since I've only had a tiny bit of experience crewing
sail, and I'm a bit long in the tooth, motor is probably my future.
From reading and googling this group I've begun to open my mind to
other types of boats beside the Carolina Skiff I had originally set my
sights on.
From reading the C. Skiff group on msn it's apparent that the skiffs
get very good mileage, and are all-around good near-shore fishing
boats.
But the accounts there are anecdotal, and the mileage measurements
are always done with a lot of on-plane time included.
Planing at 30+ is fine, but frankly, I'm never in a hurry. I can get
speed kicks at Great America should the urge come. It doesn't.
So I'm starting to think I might be better suited to a slow boat with
some measure of livability that slower travel requires, especially
since that boat might also afford more big water capability than a
skiff provides.
I'm pretty flexible about the comfort factor, so there's no saying
a 24-26' skiff can't be rigged for a measure of livability.
By "livability" I mean 3-4 nights. I'm not a masochist.
I found a fishing cap'n running a 24' CS out of Ft Myers and plan
to charter him next month or late this month to get a feel for
that boat and the Charlotte Harbor waters.
In the meantime, I'm going to get a bit of education on other hull
types. Googling this group hasn't provided much I can use, maybe
because the answer can't be pat, or maybe I just missed the answer.
DSK seems to know a lot about this, and maybe Chuck, though he usually
deals with more boat than I can afford.
First, let me lay down the only essential requirements for the boat
1. the boat is seaworthy of typical Gulf of Mexico offshore excursions
- non-hurricane but otherwise expected seas.
2. two people can live aboard without tripping over each other.
3. cost is no more than $30k, shipshape.
That's it.
What hull/engine combos offer the best MPG?
Anybody?

Thanks,

--Vic



It seems like you're asking a hell of a lot for $30K!
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 07:15:19 -0500, JLH wrote:


First, let me lay down the only essential requirements for the boat
1. the boat is seaworthy of typical Gulf of Mexico offshore excursions
- non-hurricane but otherwise expected seas.
2. two people can live aboard without tripping over each other.
3. cost is no more than $30k, shipshape.
That's it.
What hull/engine combos offer the best MPG?
Anybody?

Thanks,

--Vic



It seems like you're asking a hell of a lot for $30K!

After some initial looking around, it appears not.
The MacGregor 26 Chuck mentioned, new and powered is $30k
I see Albin 27's around $30k, but they're pretty old and not suitable
for mileage and other reasons.
I'll keep looking, but I think $30k will do, though I'll shoot for
less.
I ran across a good review Chuck did of the Allweather that tak
mentioned, and following that thread gave me some more avenues
to search. Since I like to fish, the Allweather doesn't seem my cup
of tea, but has put me on the track of a small deisel/full
displacement
hull that will meet my requirements. If it can sail too, all the
better. Even the MacGregor isn't out of the question, though
the "real" sailors sneer at it. Hey, I might just become the Skipper
of the sailing world!

--Vic

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:27:35 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 07:15:19 -0500, JLH wrote:


First, let me lay down the only essential requirements for the boat
1. the boat is seaworthy of typical Gulf of Mexico offshore excursions
- non-hurricane but otherwise expected seas.
2. two people can live aboard without tripping over each other.
3. cost is no more than $30k, shipshape.
That's it.
What hull/engine combos offer the best MPG?
Anybody?

Thanks,

--Vic



It seems like you're asking a hell of a lot for $30K!

After some initial looking around, it appears not.
The MacGregor 26 Chuck mentioned, new and powered is $30k
I see Albin 27's around $30k, but they're pretty old and not suitable
for mileage and other reasons.
I'll keep looking, but I think $30k will do, though I'll shoot for
less.
I ran across a good review Chuck did of the Allweather that tak
mentioned, and following that thread gave me some more avenues
to search. Since I like to fish, the Allweather doesn't seem my cup
of tea, but has put me on the track of a small deisel/full
displacement
hull that will meet my requirements. If it can sail too, all the
better. Even the MacGregor isn't out of the question, though
the "real" sailors sneer at it. Hey, I might just become the Skipper
of the sailing world!

One of the best fishermen I know often fishes off his 40' Beneteau and
has a ball doing it.

Hey, if that's what you want - go for it.

Just be aware that sailing is work.

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 11:33:02 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:27:35 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Even the MacGregor isn't out of the question, though
the "real" sailors sneer at it. Hey, I might just become the Skipper
of the sailing world!

One of the best fishermen I know often fishes off his 40' Beneteau and
has a ball doing it.

Hey, if that's what you want - go for it.

Just be aware that sailing is work.

Not really, Tom.
After wading through many past posts about the MacGregor,
among them an excellent review done by Chuck, according
to the salts I will never be sailing on the MacGregor.
Hell, I can have the motor hanging lifeless on the transom, 6 feet of
dagger board down, 300 sq ft of sail filled with air, and be clipping
along at 8 knots or so, but I won't be sailing on the MacGregor.
So that means no work! Pretty neat (-:
I'm not done thinking and learning yet, but right now that MacGregor
26 is at the top of my list, and I'm going to check
them out soon.
With the board up it drafts 18" or less, making it a skinny water
sailer, suitable for exploring the Keys among other spots, and a sight
more comfortable and economical to reach the Keys from Port Charlotte
than pounding down there in an open skiff.
But there might be something I'll like better as I continue the quest.
Did have a hankering for a little Yanmar diesel instead of an
outboard. Flip-flop warning.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 11:33:02 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:27:35 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Even the MacGregor isn't out of the question, though
the "real" sailors sneer at it. Hey, I might just become the Skipper
of the sailing world!
One of the best fishermen I know often fishes off his 40' Beneteau and
has a ball doing it.

Hey, if that's what you want - go for it.

Just be aware that sailing is work.

Not really, Tom.
After wading through many past posts about the MacGregor,
among them an excellent review done by Chuck, according
to the salts I will never be sailing on the MacGregor.
Hell, I can have the motor hanging lifeless on the transom, 6 feet of
dagger board down, 300 sq ft of sail filled with air, and be clipping
along at 8 knots or so, but I won't be sailing on the MacGregor.
So that means no work! Pretty neat (-:
I'm not done thinking and learning yet, but right now that MacGregor
26 is at the top of my list, and I'm going to check
them out soon.
With the board up it drafts 18" or less, making it a skinny water
sailer, suitable for exploring the Keys among other spots, and a sight
more comfortable and economical to reach the Keys from Port Charlotte
than pounding down there in an open skiff.
But there might be something I'll like better as I continue the quest.
Did have a hankering for a little Yanmar diesel instead of an
outboard. Flip-flop warning.

--Vic


It's a terrible boat. Caveat emptor.

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 09:04:07 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 11:33:02 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:27:35 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Even the MacGregor isn't out of the question, though
the "real" sailors sneer at it. Hey, I might just become the Skipper
of the sailing world!

One of the best fishermen I know often fishes off his 40' Beneteau and
has a ball doing it.

Hey, if that's what you want - go for it.

Just be aware that sailing is work.

Not really, Tom.
After wading through many past posts about the MacGregor,
among them an excellent review done by Chuck, according
to the salts I will never be sailing on the MacGregor.
Hell, I can have the motor hanging lifeless on the transom, 6 feet of
dagger board down, 300 sq ft of sail filled with air, and be clipping
along at 8 knots or so, but I won't be sailing on the MacGregor.
So that means no work! Pretty neat (-:
I'm not done thinking and learning yet, but right now that MacGregor
26 is at the top of my list, and I'm going to check
them out soon.
With the board up it drafts 18" or less, making it a skinny water
sailer, suitable for exploring the Keys among other spots, and a sight
more comfortable and economical to reach the Keys from Port Charlotte
than pounding down there in an open skiff.
But there might be something I'll like better as I continue the quest.
Did have a hankering for a little Yanmar diesel instead of an
outboard. Flip-flop warning.

Hey - what ever floats your boat.

Get it? Floats your boat?

Um...never mind.

Hey, you are doing the right thing exploring options and what you
think you can handle.

Whatever you end up with, it will be what you want.

Good luck and have fun - let us know.

By the way, the little Yanmar diesel is a great idea.

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:27:35 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 07:15:19 -0500, JLH wrote:


First, let me lay down the only essential requirements for the boat
1. the boat is seaworthy of typical Gulf of Mexico offshore excursions
- non-hurricane but otherwise expected seas.
2. two people can live aboard without tripping over each other.
3. cost is no more than $30k, shipshape.
That's it.
What hull/engine combos offer the best MPG?
Anybody?

Thanks,

--Vic



It seems like you're asking a hell of a lot for $30K!

After some initial looking around, it appears not.
The MacGregor 26 Chuck mentioned, new and powered is $30k
I see Albin 27's around $30k, but they're pretty old and not suitable
for mileage and other reasons.
I'll keep looking, but I think $30k will do, though I'll shoot for
less.
I ran across a good review Chuck did of the Allweather that tak
mentioned, and following that thread gave me some more avenues
to search. Since I like to fish, the Allweather doesn't seem my cup
of tea, but has put me on the track of a small deisel/full
displacement
hull that will meet my requirements. If it can sail too, all the
better. Even the MacGregor isn't out of the question, though
the "real" sailors sneer at it. Hey, I might just become the Skipper
of the sailing world!

--Vic

Well, whatever you end up with, I wish you good luck at it!
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."