Affordable Family Fun and Fishing!



Palmer Marine, of Port Orchard, Washington, has been building boats for
over 30 years.
Most Pacific NW'ers have probably noticed their brand name
"Tiderunner" on a line of durable, trailerable, fishing boats.
Palmer Marine recently expanded its product selection to include some
enclosed cabin boats that are still ideal for fishing, but are also
large enough to be used by a small family for weekend and vacation
expeditions. We recently enjoyed an opportunity to test Palmer
Marine's 260 Defiance. The vessel was in stock at a local dealership,
Signal Yacht Sales at Kitsap Marina in Port Orchard.

The 260 Defiance appears to be very well built. There is absolutely no
structural wood in the hull or decks. Stringers, transoms, bulkheads,
and other locations constantly on the "watch list" when wood has
been used as a template or foundation for fiberglass should be trouble
free for the life of a 260 Defiance. The hand-laid hull is vacuum bag
molded with 100% vinylester laminate to assure a void-free wet out and
make blistering extremely unlikely.

Dimensions and General Hull Design:

The Defiance 260 is 25'10" LOA. Overall beam is 8'6", with beam
at the waterline 7'6". Draft is approximately 18", and
displacement is listed at 5500 pounds. The hull is rated for up to 400
HP. Deadrise is 22-degrees, and fuel capacity is listed at 135 gallons.
(Our test boat was configured for only 110 gallons, as it was equipped
with a third fish hold in lieu of an auxiliary fuel tank).

The deep-v hull incorporates some features that Palmer calls
"Stable-Trak" design. A well-flared bow and prominent strakes at
the chine permit the 260 Defiance to divert spray away from the decks
when running on plane, or to handle rough water with greater confidence
when slowed to displacement speeds.

Palmer Marine builds the 260 Defiance with a short but workable
foredeck. The foredeck and sidedecks are nonskid, with several inch
bulwarks and the cabin superstructure creating a very well defined and
secure "track" to use when walking forward. The track appears wide
enough for a rubber boot. There is a sturdy, stainless perimeter rail
system and handholds on the cabin top, but Palmer wisely anticipated
that many boaters going forward on the 260 Defiance would have both
hands busy with a fishing rod. The deep foot track in the deck promotes
hands free confidence. The side decks are designed to drain through the
bulwarks, rather than channel water from the foredeck to the cockpit.
An anchor pulpit is standard on the 260 Defiance, with a rode locker
immediately aft.

Our test boat was equipped with an optional stainless radar arch,
equipped with two forward facing lamps that might prove handy if
docking or loading aboard a trailer after dark.

Families planning to fish, or searching for a good space to erect a
folding table and a couple of chairs when relaxing at an island
anchorage next summer will appreciate the roomy cockpit of the 260
Defiance. The cockpit is self-bailing, with 27" bulwarks. Fish rods
can be stowed in dedicated recesses to both port and starboard, with
flushable fish boxes under nonskid cockpit hatches. The bilge pump, the
batteries, the hydraulic steering, and many other systems are
serviceable through an access door in the transom of the cockpit. A
series of cockpit courtesy lights, just above deck level, are standard
equipment and will be extremely convenient during predawn or evening
hours.

Our test boat was equipped with an aft cabin bulkhead, creating a cabin
that can be truly described as fully enclosed. The cabin door and the
sliding cabin side windows are aluminum framed and fitted with tempered
glass.



Interior Amenities:

For a 26-foot boat with a large cockpit, the 260 Defiance does a
commendable job of providing a decent cabin area. Headroom in the main
cabin is several inches over six feet.
A dinette, (with lockers below the seats) is located to port, and can
be converted to a single berth by lowering the tabletop and inserting
an additional cushion. The helm is to starboard, with cup or beverage
holders alongside and a small 12-volt refrigerator immediately below
the seat. A galley sink with potable water pump is just aft of the helm
seat, and our test boat had a handy Wallas stove to perform both
cooking and cabin heating chores.

Three people could sit comfortably in the cabin underway, with
additional passengers siting on the V-berths under the foredeck. The
V-berth area on our test boat had a folding door to create privacy.
Three overhead lights with red-bulb option for enhanced night vision
should provide very satisfactory illumination after dark. Each of the
individual forward cabin windows has a wiper, as well as a separate fan
for defrosting and defogging.

While many similar boats would offer a portable marine toilet as an
option, our 260 Defiance test boat featured a fully plumbed marine
head, with a pushbutton macerating flush system and a holding tank. The
marine toilet is concealed under the removable center cushion in the
V-berth.

The cabin fixtures are teak, and the durable fabric headliner is
secured with a series of teak battens.

There would seem to be enough cabin comforts to provide a basic weekend
cruising platform for a couple, with certainly one adult guest or a
couple of kids as well.


Observations underway:

Orrin Nelson, General Manager of Kitsap Marina, was kind enough to
allow us to use the 260 Defiance and accompanied us during our trial
run. Conditions were calm, and our test area was the Port Orchard
waterway. Speed was determined with a handheld Magellan GPS, and fuel
consumption by the vessel's optional Flo-Scan meter.

Buyers can specify a variety of outboard motors for the 260 Defiance.
Our test boat was equipped with a 2005, 250 HP Suzuki four-stroke
outboard. Orrin turned the key, and the Suzuki started instantly.

We noted an impression, in the cabin, that the boat seems to sit in the
water ever so slightly down at the bow. This is most likely the result
of an optical illusion created by the forward slope of the trunk
cabintop over the V-berth, as the boat appears to sit well on its lines
when viewed from a distance. If there were any bow down tendency, it
would be eliminated once the boat gets underway, and we finally decided
on optical illusion as the most likely explanation.

One of the advantages of outboard power can be a quieter cabin
environment. The Suzuki four-stroke is a smooth and quiet engine, and
placing it well away from the cabin results in far less noise than we
would have experienced with most inboard or I/O applications.

We motored away from the marina dock, picked an unobstructed portion of
the waterway, and throttled up to 2500 rpm. Visibility over the bow
remained excellent at all speeds during out trial, even when
accelerating from dead slow or a standing start. At 2500, we were
making 8.4 kts and burning 4.5 gph.

At 3500 rpm, we noted that the exaggerated chine was functioning very
well, with spray emerging only in the last third of the hull length,
aft of the bulkhead door. We were burning 7.9 gph, to make 15.5 kts.

We improved fuel efficiency when we reached 4500 rpm, with 12.1 gph
producing a speed of 26.7 kts.

Bringing the engine up to wide-open throttle, (6000 rpm), we consumed
fuel at the rate of 21 gph and the GPS read 36.4 kts.

The 260 Defiance proved to be nimble as we maneuvered at speed. The
boat leans just slightly in a turn, but the Stable-Trak chine engages
the surface to define the outermost extreme of the tendency at a
moderate and reassuring angle. Conditions were almost dead calm, so the
only seas we encountered were our own wake, and the 260 Defiance
produces only a small wake at any sort of cruising speeds. Slowing down
to come off plane, we turned into the larger wake and negotiated it
with a solid "thump" under the hull that we heard far more clearly
than we felt. One can easily imagine trusting this hull in any
conditions under which a sane Pacific NW boater would get underway, or
even worse conditions that could arise midway through a passage.

We slowed to idle speed, and noted that even with the 250HP Suzuki the
260 Defiance could be reduced to salmon trolling speed. The GPS read
1.9 kts.

"It would make sense to mount a trolling motor if a boater wanted to
do a lot of fishing," said Orrin. "Even though we can slow down
enough, most people would be happier putting hours on a smaller and
less expensive motor, rather than a $16,000 outboard."


Conclusions:

Palmer Marine's 260 Defiance should prove an excellent choice for
anyone interested in a trailerable fishing boat that is realistically
capable of doubling as an overnight or short vacation cruiser. With a
long list of options, our test boat had a "boat show" price of
about $83,000, including the 250-horse Suzuki and a galvanized trailer.
Cabin accommodations are basic and functional rather than elaborate or
extravagant, but for many outdoor-oriented NW'ers, boating is often
more about having fun on the water rather than lounging around in an
opulent interior. The five-figure price on the 260 Defiance puts it
within realistic reach of a greater number of ordinary income boating
families, and getting more people onto the water will be among the many
things for which Palmer Marine's flagship 26-footer will be
commended.

For additional information on the Palmer Marine 260 Defiance, please
call Signal Yacht Sales at Kitsap Marina: 360-874-0504

On 3 Feb 2005 17:45:37 -0800, wrote:

Affordable Family Fun and Fishing!



Palmer Marine, of Port Orchard, Washington, has been building boats for
over 30 years.

Nice article.

I've ridden in a few Shamrock boats made by the same company, in
particular the 22 open style which I like a lot. It's very well made
and rides great on those sloppy days.

Later,

Tom

wrote in message
oups.com...
Affordable Family Fun and Fishing!



Palmer Marine, of Port Orchard, Washington, has been building boats for
over 30 years.
Most Pacific NW'ers have probably noticed their brand name
"Tiderunner" on a line of durable, trailerable, fishing boats.
Palmer Marine recently expanded its product selection to include some
enclosed cabin boats that are still ideal for fishing, but are also
large enough to be used by a small family for weekend and vacation
expeditions. We recently enjoyed an opportunity to test Palmer
Marine's 260 Defiance. The vessel was in stock at a local dealership,
Signal Yacht Sales at Kitsap Marina in Port Orchard.

The 260 Defiance appears to be very well built. There is absolutely no
structural wood in the hull or decks. Stringers, transoms, bulkheads,
and other locations constantly on the "watch list" when wood has
been used as a template or foundation for fiberglass should be trouble
free for the life of a 260 Defiance. The hand-laid hull is vacuum bag
molded with 100% vinylester laminate to assure a void-free wet out and
make blistering extremely unlikely.

Dimensions and General Hull Design:

The Defiance 260 is 25'10" LOA. Overall beam is 8'6", with beam
at the waterline 7'6". Draft is approximately 18", and
displacement is listed at 5500 pounds. The hull is rated for up to 400
HP. Deadrise is 22-degrees, and fuel capacity is listed at 135 gallons.
(Our test boat was configured for only 110 gallons, as it was equipped
with a third fish hold in lieu of an auxiliary fuel tank).

The deep-v hull incorporates some features that Palmer calls
"Stable-Trak" design. A well-flared bow and prominent strakes at
the chine permit the 260 Defiance to divert spray away from the decks
when running on plane, or to handle rough water with greater confidence
when slowed to displacement speeds.

Palmer Marine builds the 260 Defiance with a short but workable
foredeck. The foredeck and sidedecks are nonskid, with several inch
bulwarks and the cabin superstructure creating a very well defined and
secure "track" to use when walking forward. The track appears wide
enough for a rubber boot. There is a sturdy, stainless perimeter rail
system and handholds on the cabin top, but Palmer wisely anticipated
that many boaters going forward on the 260 Defiance would have both
hands busy with a fishing rod. The deep foot track in the deck promotes
hands free confidence. The side decks are designed to drain through the
bulwarks, rather than channel water from the foredeck to the cockpit.
An anchor pulpit is standard on the 260 Defiance, with a rode locker
immediately aft.

Our test boat was equipped with an optional stainless radar arch,
equipped with two forward facing lamps that might prove handy if
docking or loading aboard a trailer after dark.

Families planning to fish, or searching for a good space to erect a
folding table and a couple of chairs when relaxing at an island
anchorage next summer will appreciate the roomy cockpit of the 260
Defiance. The cockpit is self-bailing, with 27" bulwarks. Fish rods
can be stowed in dedicated recesses to both port and starboard, with
flushable fish boxes under nonskid cockpit hatches. The bilge pump, the
batteries, the hydraulic steering, and many other systems are
serviceable through an access door in the transom of the cockpit. A
series of cockpit courtesy lights, just above deck level, are standard
equipment and will be extremely convenient during predawn or evening
hours.

Our test boat was equipped with an aft cabin bulkhead, creating a cabin
that can be truly described as fully enclosed. The cabin door and the
sliding cabin side windows are aluminum framed and fitted with tempered
glass.



Interior Amenities:

For a 26-foot boat with a large cockpit, the 260 Defiance does a
commendable job of providing a decent cabin area. Headroom in the main
cabin is several inches over six feet.
A dinette, (with lockers below the seats) is located to port, and can
be converted to a single berth by lowering the tabletop and inserting
an additional cushion. The helm is to starboard, with cup or beverage
holders alongside and a small 12-volt refrigerator immediately below
the seat. A galley sink with potable water pump is just aft of the helm
seat, and our test boat had a handy Wallas stove to perform both
cooking and cabin heating chores.

Three people could sit comfortably in the cabin underway, with
additional passengers siting on the V-berths under the foredeck. The
V-berth area on our test boat had a folding door to create privacy.
Three overhead lights with red-bulb option for enhanced night vision
should provide very satisfactory illumination after dark. Each of the
individual forward cabin windows has a wiper, as well as a separate fan
for defrosting and defogging.

While many similar boats would offer a portable marine toilet as an
option, our 260 Defiance test boat featured a fully plumbed marine
head, with a pushbutton macerating flush system and a holding tank. The
marine toilet is concealed under the removable center cushion in the
V-berth.

The cabin fixtures are teak, and the durable fabric headliner is
secured with a series of teak battens.

There would seem to be enough cabin comforts to provide a basic weekend
cruising platform for a couple, with certainly one adult guest or a
couple of kids as well.


Observations underway:

Orrin Nelson, General Manager of Kitsap Marina, was kind enough to
allow us to use the 260 Defiance and accompanied us during our trial
run. Conditions were calm, and our test area was the Port Orchard
waterway. Speed was determined with a handheld Magellan GPS, and fuel
consumption by the vessel's optional Flo-Scan meter.

Buyers can specify a variety of outboard motors for the 260 Defiance.
Our test boat was equipped with a 2005, 250 HP Suzuki four-stroke
outboard. Orrin turned the key, and the Suzuki started instantly.

We noted an impression, in the cabin, that the boat seems to sit in the
water ever so slightly down at the bow. This is most likely the result
of an optical illusion created by the forward slope of the trunk
cabintop over the V-berth, as the boat appears to sit well on its lines
when viewed from a distance. If there were any bow down tendency, it
would be eliminated once the boat gets underway, and we finally decided
on optical illusion as the most likely explanation.

One of the advantages of outboard power can be a quieter cabin
environment. The Suzuki four-stroke is a smooth and quiet engine, and
placing it well away from the cabin results in far less noise than we
would have experienced with most inboard or I/O applications.

We motored away from the marina dock, picked an unobstructed portion of
the waterway, and throttled up to 2500 rpm. Visibility over the bow
remained excellent at all speeds during out trial, even when
accelerating from dead slow or a standing start. At 2500, we were
making 8.4 kts and burning 4.5 gph.

At 3500 rpm, we noted that the exaggerated chine was functioning very
well, with spray emerging only in the last third of the hull length,
aft of the bulkhead door. We were burning 7.9 gph, to make 15.5 kts.

We improved fuel efficiency when we reached 4500 rpm, with 12.1 gph
producing a speed of 26.7 kts.

Bringing the engine up to wide-open throttle, (6000 rpm), we consumed
fuel at the rate of 21 gph and the GPS read 36.4 kts.

The 260 Defiance proved to be nimble as we maneuvered at speed. The
boat leans just slightly in a turn, but the Stable-Trak chine engages
the surface to define the outermost extreme of the tendency at a
moderate and reassuring angle. Conditions were almost dead calm, so the
only seas we encountered were our own wake, and the 260 Defiance
produces only a small wake at any sort of cruising speeds. Slowing down
to come off plane, we turned into the larger wake and negotiated it
with a solid "thump" under the hull that we heard far more clearly
than we felt. One can easily imagine trusting this hull in any
conditions under which a sane Pacific NW boater would get underway, or
even worse conditions that could arise midway through a passage.

We slowed to idle speed, and noted that even with the 250HP Suzuki the
260 Defiance could be reduced to salmon trolling speed. The GPS read
1.9 kts.

"It would make sense to mount a trolling motor if a boater wanted to
do a lot of fishing," said Orrin. "Even though we can slow down
enough, most people would be happier putting hours on a smaller and
less expensive motor, rather than a $16,000 outboard."


Conclusions:

Palmer Marine's 260 Defiance should prove an excellent choice for
anyone interested in a trailerable fishing boat that is realistically
capable of doubling as an overnight or short vacation cruiser. With a
long list of options, our test boat had a "boat show" price of
about $83,000, including the 250-horse Suzuki

I paid $14,900 (taxes, rigging included) for a 250 Suzuki. The trailer is
probably $3500. That means they're selling that boat for almost $65k.
That seems like a lot of money for a 26' boat.

http://www.shamrockboats.com/defianc...ucts&model=260

NOYB wrote:

I paid $14,900 (taxes, rigging included) for a 250 Suzuki. The trailer
is
probably $3500. That means they're selling that boat for almost $65k.
That seems like a lot of money for a 26' boat.

**********

It's a lot of money, but it's not out of whack with comparable
offerings. In fact, just try to find
anything except an open runabout for less than $50k in a new boat. Hard
to do. I just happened across an ad for an eight year old Grady White,
26', with an asking price of $47,000.

Try thinking of it in automobile prices: A decent little boat costs
about the same as a Jaguar. :-)

On 4 Feb 2005 10:44:22 -0800, wrote:

NOYB wrote:

I paid $14,900 (taxes, rigging included) for a 250 Suzuki. The trailer
is
probably $3500. That means they're selling that boat for almost $65k.
That seems like a lot of money for a 26' boat.

**********

It's a lot of money, but it's not out of whack with comparable
offerings. In fact, just try to find
anything except an open runabout for less than $50k in a new boat. Hard
to do. I just happened across an ad for an eight year old Grady White,
26', with an asking price of $47,000.

Try thinking of it in automobile prices: A decent little boat costs
about the same as a Jaguar. :-)

I'm not going to tell you what I sold my Contender CC for, but it was
20% over what I paid for the entire package. Admittedly it had some
goodies that most don't like a custom trailer for yard storage and the
state-of-the-art electronics package. I also admit that I bought it
right to begin with. I was lucky.

But the sheer amount of money it took to buy the 31 Fisharound -
jumping jesus!! When all was said and done, it was about 2/3s of what
we paid for our house and property 25 years ago.

At the CMTA boat show in Hartford last weekend, without exaggeration,
I don't think there was a boat there over 17 feet that was under
$40,000. At least I don't remember one. Most were in the $60/75K
range.

Later,

Tom

wrote in message
oups.com...
NOYB wrote:

I paid $14,900 (taxes, rigging included) for a 250 Suzuki. The trailer
is
probably $3500. That means they're selling that boat for almost $65k.
That seems like a lot of money for a 26' boat.

**********

It's a lot of money, but it's not out of whack with comparable
offerings. In fact, just try to find
anything except an open runabout for less than $50k in a new boat. Hard
to do. I just happened across an ad for an eight year old Grady White,
26', with an asking price of $47,000.

I paid $18k for my boat. I got 150 hours out of the original motor before I
blew the powerhead. I repowered with the Suzuki, and now have a brand new
motor pushing a very solid, functional 25' (center console with forward
cuddy) for $33k. I just can't see shelling out another $40-50 for the same
boat new.

I'm glad there are people willing to buy new...'cause it sure makes it nice
when I can buy it cheap *after* all of the depreciation.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
news

But the sheer amount of money it took to buy the 31 Fisharound -


I *love* that boat, Tom. That one's on my wish list.

I bought a 25' center console with forward cuddy. I like it because helm
the helm is further aft than in the walkarounds, and I can fish a lot of
people over the sides without a windshield in the way. However, it's not as
versatile as the Fisharound.

On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:28:20 -0500, "NOYB" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
news

But the sheer amount of money it took to buy the 31 Fisharound -


I *love* that boat, Tom. That one's on my wish list.

I bought a 25' center console with forward cuddy. I like it because helm
the helm is further aft than in the walkarounds, and I can fish a lot of
people over the sides without a windshield in the way. However, it's not as
versatile as the Fisharound.

Thanks - I like it a lot. It's a compromise - my wife wanted
something like a Grand Banks or Silverton. EEWWWWWW!!!!

The cabin area is very nice too - surprising how much room it has.

I always thought the forward cuddy was a great idea. Mako built one
for a few years as did Boston Whaler, but Contender was about the only
one who actually kept one in the line.

Later,

Tom

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:28:20 -0500, "NOYB" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
news

But the sheer amount of money it took to buy the 31 Fisharound -


I *love* that boat, Tom. That one's on my wish list.

I bought a 25' center console with forward cuddy. I like it because helm
the helm is further aft than in the walkarounds, and I can fish a lot of
people over the sides without a windshield in the way. However, it's not
as
versatile as the Fisharound.

Thanks - I like it a lot. It's a compromise - my wife wanted
something like a Grand Banks or Silverton. EEWWWWWW!!!!

The cabin area is very nice too - surprising how much room it has.

I always thought the forward cuddy was a great idea. Mako built one
for a few years as did Boston Whaler, but Contender was about the only
one who actually kept one in the line.


Pursuit had one too. Yellowfin has a 34' and Marlago has a 35'. I think
Scarab has one also.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:

I paid $14,900 (taxes, rigging included) for a 250 Suzuki. The trailer
is
probably $3500. That means they're selling that boat for almost $65k.
That seems like a lot of money for a 26' boat.

**********

It's a lot of money, but it's not out of whack with comparable
offerings. In fact, just try to find
anything except an open runabout for less than $50k in a new boat. Hard
to do. I just happened across an ad for an eight year old Grady White,
26', with an asking price of $47,000.


I paid $18k for my boat. I got 150 hours out of the original motor
before I blew the powerhead. I repowered with the Suzuki, and now have a
brand new motor pushing a very solid, functional 25' (center console with
forward cuddy) for $33k. I just can't see shelling out another $40-50
for the same boat new.

I'm glad there are people willing to buy new...'cause it sure makes it
nice when I can buy it cheap *after* all of the depreciation.





Darn, and I was going to offer you my Parker for $60,000.

That's not a bad price, but I'm waiting for Shortwave Sportfishing to offer
to sell me his Contender 31' Fisharound for $60k. ;-)