Hull Type Economy
 

I hate buying fuel, and I hate using it. It's possible I may end with
a sail boat, but since I've only had a tiny bit of experience crewing
sail, and I'm a bit long in the tooth, motor is probably my future.
From reading and googling this group I've begun to open my mind to
other types of boats beside the Carolina Skiff I had originally set my
sights on.
From reading the C. Skiff group on msn it's apparent that the skiffs
get very good mileage, and are all-around good near-shore fishing
boats.
But the accounts there are anecdotal, and the mileage measurements
are always done with a lot of on-plane time included.
Planing at 30+ is fine, but frankly, I'm never in a hurry. I can get
speed kicks at Great America should the urge come. It doesn't.
So I'm starting to think I might be better suited to a slow boat with
some measure of livability that slower travel requires, especially
since that boat might also afford more big water capability than a
skiff provides.
I'm pretty flexible about the comfort factor, so there's no saying
a 24-26' skiff can't be rigged for a measure of livability.
By "livability" I mean 3-4 nights. I'm not a masochist.
I found a fishing cap'n running a 24' CS out of Ft Myers and plan
to charter him next month or late this month to get a feel for
that boat and the Charlotte Harbor waters.
In the meantime, I'm going to get a bit of education on other hull
types. Googling this group hasn't provided much I can use, maybe
because the answer can't be pat, or maybe I just missed the answer.
DSK seems to know a lot about this, and maybe Chuck, though he usually
deals with more boat than I can afford.
First, let me lay down the only essential requirements for the boat
1. the boat is seaworthy of typical Gulf of Mexico offshore excursions
- non-hurricane but otherwise expected seas.
2. two people can live aboard without tripping over each other.
3. cost is no more than $30k, shipshape.
That's it.
What hull/engine combos offer the best MPG?
Anybody?

Thanks,

--Vic

Hull Type Economy
 

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 23:46:00 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

I found a fishing cap'n running a 24' CS out of Ft Myers and plan
to charter him next month or late this month to get a feel for
that boat and the Charlotte Harbor waters.

That's always a good idea - gives you something to base an opinion on.
You might also want to do this with other types of boats.
..
First, let me lay down the only essential requirements for the boat

1. the boat is seaworthy of typical Gulf of Mexico offshore excursions
- non-hurricane but otherwise expected seas.

First of all, you need to understand some terminology.

Chine: The line of intersection of the bottom with the side of a vee
or flat bottomed boat. There are two types in normal recreational
boats - hard chine where the hull and bottom are at a sharp angle and
soft chine where the hull and bottom are rounded.

Deadrise: Degrees of the V-shape hull angle measured at the transom of
planing powerboats. Just as it states, the V-shape determines how the
boat moves through the water. A sharper V will mean that the boat
will cut waves easier than a flat bottom boat which will pound.

Freeboard: The vertical distance from the waterline to the top of the
deck at side. Pretty simple concept - it's the "floor" to the top of
the gunwale. The more you have, the better off you are in a small
boat.

Ride pad: Ride pads are used to ensure that you get a clean edge to
spill water off the ride areas to reduce drag and increase speed. This
is basically a semi-flat area starting about a 1/3 of the way down a
hull.

Displacement hull: The displacement hull will always displace (push
away) water equal to its total weight.

Planing hull:When not moving it is, in effect, a displacement hull. As
power and speed increase a planing hull lifts itself up on top of its
own bow wave. This causes the boat to displace less water. The result,
is much less wetted surface on the hull bottom, meaning much less
friction as well.

There are variations on these two concepts - the semi-displacement
hull which is also a compromise.

As you can probably envision, different hulls ride spectacularly
different. Flat bottomed (hard or soft chine) boats ride like trucks
in any kind of weather or sea state. V-hulls ride better because they
tend to move through the water when it's basic state changes (as in
waves, chop, etc.) instead of riding strictly on top and pounding.
Modified V-hulls are exactly that - partly V-hulls with moderate
deadrise pads they are a compromise.

Most planing hulls are hard chined with a deep vee. For offshore
work, it's best in a small boat to have a V with a deadrise of 20-24
degrees with at least 24 to 30"" of freeboard- the more the better.

Some modified V-hull boats have what are called "strakes" which looks
like strips or on my Ranger, are steps built into the hull which
provide turning "grip" in sharp turns.

2. two people can live aboard without tripping over each other.

You are looking in the 24/26' range at a minimum, 28/30' would be just
about right.

3. cost is no more than $30k, shipshape.

Well, you've set down some conditions that might not be achievable
when it comes to price. 30K is probably going to buy you something
older with minor/major problems. Which basically means you are
probably in the "fixer-upper" category which isn't a bad thing if you
are the least bit handy.

With this in mind, and assuming you aren't going to trailer the boat
there are older manufacturers you might want to look for - like
Uniflite.

http://tinyurl.com/2lytpq

Even older, these are sound boats and have a terrific reputation.
There is a rabid Uniflite group out there somewhere, but I can't find
the reference at the moment - it's still early in the morning.

But that's basically what you are looking for - older boat in decent
shape.

What hull/engine combos offer the best MPG?

Semi-V hull with outboards in particular ETECs, Yamaha HPDI or Merc.
Optimax direct injected two strokes. Of those three, the ETECs have
the best overall power to weight ratio with the best mileage.

I can prove that. :)

Hope that helps.

Hull Type Economy
 

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 23:46:00 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

I hate buying fuel, and I hate using it. It's possible I may end with
a sail boat, but since I've only had a tiny bit of experience crewing
sail, and I'm a bit long in the tooth, motor is probably my future.
From reading and googling this group I've begun to open my mind to
other types of boats beside the Carolina Skiff I had originally set my
sights on.
From reading the C. Skiff group on msn it's apparent that the skiffs
get very good mileage, and are all-around good near-shore fishing
boats.
But the accounts there are anecdotal, and the mileage measurements
are always done with a lot of on-plane time included.
Planing at 30+ is fine, but frankly, I'm never in a hurry. I can get
speed kicks at Great America should the urge come. It doesn't.
So I'm starting to think I might be better suited to a slow boat with
some measure of livability that slower travel requires, especially
since that boat might also afford more big water capability than a
skiff provides.
I'm pretty flexible about the comfort factor, so there's no saying
a 24-26' skiff can't be rigged for a measure of livability.
By "livability" I mean 3-4 nights. I'm not a masochist.
I found a fishing cap'n running a 24' CS out of Ft Myers and plan
to charter him next month or late this month to get a feel for
that boat and the Charlotte Harbor waters.
In the meantime, I'm going to get a bit of education on other hull
types. Googling this group hasn't provided much I can use, maybe
because the answer can't be pat, or maybe I just missed the answer.
DSK seems to know a lot about this, and maybe Chuck, though he usually
deals with more boat than I can afford.
First, let me lay down the only essential requirements for the boat
1. the boat is seaworthy of typical Gulf of Mexico offshore excursions
- non-hurricane but otherwise expected seas.
2. two people can live aboard without tripping over each other.
3. cost is no more than $30k, shipshape.
That's it.
What hull/engine combos offer the best MPG?
Anybody?

Thanks,

--Vic



It seems like you're asking a hell of a lot for $30K!
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Hull Type Economy
 

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 11:46:30 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 23:46:00 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

I found a fishing cap'n running a 24' CS out of Ft Myers and plan
to charter him next month or late this month to get a feel for
that boat and the Charlotte Harbor waters.

That's always a good idea - gives you something to base an opinion on.
You might also want to do this with other types of boats.
.
First, let me lay down the only essential requirements for the boat

1. the boat is seaworthy of typical Gulf of Mexico offshore excursions
- non-hurricane but otherwise expected seas.

First of all, you need to understand some terminology.

Chine: The line of intersection of the bottom with the side of a vee
or flat bottomed boat. There are two types in normal recreational
boats - hard chine where the hull and bottom are at a sharp angle and
soft chine where the hull and bottom are rounded.

Deadrise: Degrees of the V-shape hull angle measured at the transom of
planing powerboats. Just as it states, the V-shape determines how the
boat moves through the water. A sharper V will mean that the boat
will cut waves easier than a flat bottom boat which will pound.

Freeboard: The vertical distance from the waterline to the top of the
deck at side. Pretty simple concept - it's the "floor" to the top of
the gunwale. The more you have, the better off you are in a small
boat.

Ride pad: Ride pads are used to ensure that you get a clean edge to
spill water off the ride areas to reduce drag and increase speed. This
is basically a semi-flat area starting about a 1/3 of the way down a
hull.

Displacement hull: The displacement hull will always displace (push
away) water equal to its total weight.

Planing hull:When not moving it is, in effect, a displacement hull. As
power and speed increase a planing hull lifts itself up on top of its
own bow wave. This causes the boat to displace less water. The result,
is much less wetted surface on the hull bottom, meaning much less
friction as well.

There are variations on these two concepts - the semi-displacement
hull which is also a compromise.

As you can probably envision, different hulls ride spectacularly
different. Flat bottomed (hard or soft chine) boats ride like trucks
in any kind of weather or sea state. V-hulls ride better because they
tend to move through the water when it's basic state changes (as in
waves, chop, etc.) instead of riding strictly on top and pounding.
Modified V-hulls are exactly that - partly V-hulls with moderate
deadrise pads they are a compromise.

Most planing hulls are hard chined with a deep vee. For offshore
work, it's best in a small boat to have a V with a deadrise of 20-24
degrees with at least 24 to 30"" of freeboard- the more the better.

Some modified V-hull boats have what are called "strakes" which looks
like strips or on my Ranger, are steps built into the hull which
provide turning "grip" in sharp turns.

2. two people can live aboard without tripping over each other.

You are looking in the 24/26' range at a minimum, 28/30' would be just
about right.

3. cost is no more than $30k, shipshape.

Well, you've set down some conditions that might not be achievable
when it comes to price. 30K is probably going to buy you something
older with minor/major problems. Which basically means you are
probably in the "fixer-upper" category which isn't a bad thing if you
are the least bit handy.

With this in mind, and assuming you aren't going to trailer the boat
there are older manufacturers you might want to look for - like
Uniflite.

http://tinyurl.com/2lytpq

Even older, these are sound boats and have a terrific reputation.
There is a rabid Uniflite group out there somewhere, but I can't find
the reference at the moment - it's still early in the morning.

But that's basically what you are looking for - older boat in decent
shape.

What hull/engine combos offer the best MPG?

Semi-V hull with outboards in particular ETECs, Yamaha HPDI or Merc.
Optimax direct injected two strokes. Of those three, the ETECs have
the best overall power to weight ratio with the best mileage.

I can prove that. :)

Hope that helps.

Thanks, I'm sure it will. After I digest it (-:
Later,

--Vic

Hull Type Economy
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
I hate buying fuel, and I hate using it. It's possible I may end with
a sail boat, but since I've only had a tiny bit of experience crewing
sail, and I'm a bit long in the tooth, motor is probably my future.
From reading and googling this group I've begun to open my mind to
other types of boats beside the Carolina Skiff I had originally set my
sights on.
From reading the C. Skiff group on msn it's apparent that the skiffs
get very good mileage, and are all-around good near-shore fishing
boats.
But the accounts there are anecdotal, and the mileage measurements
are always done with a lot of on-plane time included.
Planing at 30+ is fine, but frankly, I'm never in a hurry. I can get
speed kicks at Great America should the urge come. It doesn't.
So I'm starting to think I might be better suited to a slow boat with
some measure of livability that slower travel requires, especially
since that boat might also afford more big water capability than a
skiff provides.
I'm pretty flexible about the comfort factor, so there's no saying
a 24-26' skiff can't be rigged for a measure of livability.
By "livability" I mean 3-4 nights. I'm not a masochist.
I found a fishing cap'n running a 24' CS out of Ft Myers and plan
to charter him next month or late this month to get a feel for
that boat and the Charlotte Harbor waters.
In the meantime, I'm going to get a bit of education on other hull
types. Googling this group hasn't provided much I can use, maybe
because the answer can't be pat, or maybe I just missed the answer.
DSK seems to know a lot about this, and maybe Chuck, though he usually
deals with more boat than I can afford.
First, let me lay down the only essential requirements for the boat
1. the boat is seaworthy of typical Gulf of Mexico offshore excursions
- non-hurricane but otherwise expected seas.
2. two people can live aboard without tripping over each other.
3. cost is no more than $30k, shipshape.
That's it.
What hull/engine combos offer the best MPG?
Anybody?

Thanks,

--Vic

You might check out the following URL for ideas:

http://www.allweatherboats.com/

No affiliation, just looks neat if speed is not needed

Hull Type Economy
 

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 23:46:00 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

First, let me lay down the only essential requirements for the boat
1. the boat is seaworthy of typical Gulf of Mexico offshore excursions
- non-hurricane but otherwise expected seas.
2. two people can live aboard without tripping over each other.
3. cost is no more than $30k, shipshape.
That's it.
What hull/engine combos offer the best MPG?
Anybody?

I'd recommend an older, used sailboat in the 28 to 30 ft range because
I think it's the only thing that will meet all of your listed
requirements. It would be very fuel efficient and easily handled by
two people after a bit of experience in fair weather. Get an
autopilot, best money you'll ever spend.

Hull Type Economy
 

On Mar 5, 8:03�am, Wayne.B wrote:

I'd recommend an older, used sailboat in the 28 to 30 ft range because
I think it's the only thing that will meet all of your listed
requirements. *It would be very fuel efficient and easily handled by
two people after a bit of experience in fair weather. *Get an
autopilot, best money you'll ever spend.

I would concur. $30,000 is a very low budget for a boat with the
requirements stated. Motoring around in an old sailboat might be a
solution, I'd have to think the sail inventory would be pretty tired
on a boat in that price range- but maybe could still sail a bit.

Depending on how rough conditions might be- a new 26' MacGregor is
around $30,000. Pretty light weight and not much draft for serious
offshore use. Not the world's finest sailboat, sort of weird as a
powerbot, but very economical to
purchase and operate. Can't say how one would work in the Gulf, but
they are very popular in Puget Sound.

Hull Type Economy
 

On Mar 5, 12:25 pm, "Chuck Gould" wrote:
On Mar 5, 8:03?am, Wayne.B wrote:

I'd recommend an older, used sailboat in the 28 to 30 ft range because
I think it's the only thing that will meet all of your listed
requirements. ?It would be very fuel efficient and easily handled by
two people after a bit of experience in fair weather. ?Get an
autopilot, best money you'll ever spend.

I would concur. $30,000 is a very low budget for a boat with the
requirements stated. Motoring around in an old sailboat might be a
solution, I'd have to think the sail inventory would be pretty tired
on a boat in that price range- but maybe could still sail a bit.

Depending on how rough conditions might be- a new 26' MacGregor is
around $30,000. Pretty light weight and not much draft for serious
offshore use. Not the world's finest sailboat, sort of weird as a
powerbot, but very economical to
purchase and operate. Can't say how one would work in the Gulf, but
they are very popular in Puget Sound.

$30k is unrealistic.

If gas consumption is the deciding factor then a displacement hull or
a sail boat. You can't be in a hurry but you will get there at the
least cost.

Hull Type Economy
 

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 15:58:59 GMT, "tak"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .
I hate buying fuel, and I hate using it. It's possible I may end with
a sail boat, but since I've only had a tiny bit of experience crewing
sail, and I'm a bit long in the tooth, motor is probably my future.


You might check out the following URL for ideas:

http://www.allweatherboats.com/

No affiliation, just looks neat if speed is not needed

5 knots 1 qt./hr Wowie!
Thanks, that's real close to what I was thinking about,
and gives me a terrific reference.

--Vic

Hull Type Economy
 

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 11:03:11 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 23:46:00 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

First, let me lay down the only essential requirements for the boat
1. the boat is seaworthy of typical Gulf of Mexico offshore excursions
- non-hurricane but otherwise expected seas.
2. two people can live aboard without tripping over each other.
3. cost is no more than $30k, shipshape.
That's it.
What hull/engine combos offer the best MPG?
Anybody?

I'd recommend an older, used sailboat in the 28 to 30 ft range because
I think it's the only thing that will meet all of your listed
requirements. It would be very fuel efficient and easily handled by
two people after a bit of experience in fair weather. Get an
autopilot, best money you'll ever spend.

I'm leaning a bit that way as I flip-flop. Sailboats are now on my
list to check out when I get to Florida.
Oddly enough, when I looked at the Cap'n Neal link, he got me a bit
interested. No golf carts though, and I'm a little leery of
sailboards too, but who knows.

--Vic