Calif Bill wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

Calif Bill wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...


Gene Kearns wrote:
snip...


This is a *BIG* hot button for me, but this is endemic of no longer
teaching real Industrial Arts in our public schools. Higher education,

from mechanic programs, to engineering programs, to medical programs

all suffer from incoming students that have, in too many cases, never
even held a tool in their hands..... and in almost all cases, save
some rural areas, lack any real experience in using tools or in
dealing with the logic required of fixing everyday items that need
repair or adjustment.....
--

You got that right!
When my two sons were in jr high, they had to take homemaking courses
half the year and shop the other half. The pc crowd decided that the
girls whould have equal time hammering, cutting etc. while the boys
learned baking, etc.
I don't mind if the girls want to take shop, but don't force the boys
to be Suzy Homemaker unless they want to.


So you figure the women will be the kitchen slave. Not much more
pathetic than a guy who has to go to Burger King because he can not cook
anything!

No kitchen slave... just don't think our kids should be girliemen , like
that California crowd.


And how is he to be a manly man, when he can not man the BBQ?


I can teach him that..and already have.

Gene Kearns wrote in message
news
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 15:29:42 GMT, Don White
wrote:

Gene Kearns wrote:
snip...

This is a *BIG* hot button for me, but this is endemic of no longer
teaching real Industrial Arts in our public schools. Higher education,
from mechanic programs, to engineering programs, to medical programs
all suffer from incoming students that have, in too many cases, never
even held a tool in their hands..... and in almost all cases, save
some rural areas, lack any real experience in using tools or in
dealing with the logic required of fixing everyday items that need
repair or adjustment.....
--


You got that right!
When my two sons were in jr high, they had to take homemaking courses
half the year and shop the other half. The pc crowd decided that the
girls whould have equal time hammering, cutting etc. while the boys
learned baking, etc.
I don't mind if the girls want to take shop, but don't force the boys
to be Suzy Homemaker unless they want to.

Actually, about 2,000 years ago, before we were so PC, at my Jr. High
School we had co-ed Home Ec. and Industrial Arts Classes. All of them
were electives and nobody was coerced into either class.....

.... we have NOT moved forward.....

In my high school, the hoodlums took home economics. We thought they were
weird. They were geniuses. That's where the food and the women were.

wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
Ernest Scribbler wrote:
"Clams Canino" wrote
I wanna know how you broke *three*.
I mean - after you broke one... didn't a clue rake at least try to hit you
over the head about the rest of them?

Not to jump on the jump-on-Jay bandwagon (he's got enough trouble with his
broken bolts already), but wasn't he the guy who asked what the difference
is between foot pounds and inch pounds a while back?

Good Lord, give him credit for trying to do his own work. So he makes
expensive mistakes, I bet he learns from them. I have managed to break
5 drill bits in rapid succession.
Now, If I remember, there are special tools for removing broken bits or
taps. I suggest he look into a tool catalogue such as McMaster-Carr or
MSC.

I have several tiny hardened end mills from MSC. They are no wider
than a screwdriver blade and cost about $20 each and I have used them
for such tasks to get down into a bolt hole (using the dremel tool) to
make a screwdriver slot. You can also use the tiny diamond burr with
th dremel to make a "dent" atop the broken bolt for the drill bit to
start on when you drill it out.

Yes, I used the Dremel tool with a diamond grind bit to form a slot on
top of one of the broken bolt, and I used a screw driver to remove that
bolt -- successfully.

But this didn't work for another two bolts that were sunk inside the
holes. The pointy grinding bit simply could not have a good angle of
attack on the bolt surface. What ended up happening was that the two
ends of the slot were slightly lower than the center of the slot and
this weakened the slot. When I used the screw driver to turn the bolt,
I ended up stripping the slot.

But this is kind of behind me now. As mentioned in my another reply, I
found an easy way to remove the broken bolts by simply removing the
water pump base, and this allowed the broken bolts to show up in the
open, and I used a channellock piler to remove the broken bolts.

Nice to talk with you.

Jay Chan

Glad to hear you worked it out Jay.

Sorry a non boat owner member here decided to flame you. But that is
his only reason he posts here. I would suggest you ignore him and any
*advice* he offers.. ;-)

"JimH" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
Ernest Scribbler wrote:
"Clams Canino" wrote
I wanna know how you broke *three*.
I mean - after you broke one... didn't a clue rake at least try
to hit you
over the head about the rest of them?

Not to jump on the jump-on-Jay bandwagon (he's got enough trouble
with his
broken bolts already), but wasn't he the guy who asked what the
difference
is between foot pounds and inch pounds a while back?

Good Lord, give him credit for trying to do his own work. So he
makes
expensive mistakes, I bet he learns from them. I have managed to
break
5 drill bits in rapid succession.
Now, If I remember, there are special tools for removing broken bits
or
taps. I suggest he look into a tool catalogue such as McMaster-Carr
or
MSC.

I have several tiny hardened end mills from MSC. They are no wider
than a screwdriver blade and cost about $20 each and I have used them
for such tasks to get down into a bolt hole (using the dremel tool) to
make a screwdriver slot. You can also use the tiny diamond burr with
th dremel to make a "dent" atop the broken bolt for the drill bit to
start on when you drill it out.

Yes, I used the Dremel tool with a diamond grind bit to form a slot on
top of one of the broken bolt, and I used a screw driver to remove that
bolt -- successfully.

But this didn't work for another two bolts that were sunk inside the
holes. The pointy grinding bit simply could not have a good angle of
attack on the bolt surface. What ended up happening was that the two
ends of the slot were slightly lower than the center of the slot and
this weakened the slot. When I used the screw driver to turn the bolt,
I ended up stripping the slot.

But this is kind of behind me now. As mentioned in my another reply, I
found an easy way to remove the broken bolts by simply removing the
water pump base, and this allowed the broken bolts to show up in the
open, and I used a channellock piler to remove the broken bolts.

Nice to talk with you.

Jay Chan

Glad to hear you worked it out Jay.

Sorry a non boat owner member here decided to flame you. But that is
his only reason he posts here. I would suggest you ignore him and any
*advice* he offers.. ;-)


LOL. Let me rephrase that:

......But this is his the only reason he posts here...................

"JimH" wrote in message

Glad to hear you worked it out Jay.

Sorry a non boat owner member here decided to flame you. But that is
his only reason he posts here. I would suggest you ignore him and any
*advice* he offers.. ;-)

Just who were you refering to here??

-W

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
. net...

"JimH" wrote in message

Glad to hear you worked it out Jay.

Sorry a non boat owner member here decided to flame you. But that is
the only reason he posts here. I would suggest you ignore him and any
*advice* he offers.. ;-)

Just who were you refering to here??

-W



Reggie.

On the other hand, your contributions here are without question first class.

I was just trying to be diplomatic without mentioning a name.

-W unloads flamethrower... backs slowly out of the room

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
news:VM-dnfPTwP5Eo9zYnZ2dnUVZ_u-

I was just trying to be diplomatic without mentioning a name.

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
hlink.net...

-W unloads flamethrower... backs slowly out of the room

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
news:VM-dnfPTwP5Eo9zYnZ2dnUVZ_u-

I was just trying to be diplomatic without mentioning a name.



LMAO!

Clams Canino wrote:
-W unloads flamethrower... backs slowly out of the room

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
news:VM-dnfPTwP5Eo9zYnZ2dnUVZ_u-

I was just trying to be diplomatic without mentioning a name.


I know he can't be talking about me. My recommendation to find a good
shade tree mechanic to help learn the basics is a great one and did not
flame anyone. Marine engines are too expensive and too high tech. to do
on the job training.

wrote
each broken bolt went through a threaded hole in
the water pump base into another threaded hole in the lower unit. Seem
like the threaded holes in the water pump base had some chemical
reaction with the bolts, and the threads in the hole in the water pump
base had completely corroded away

Take a look at a new water pump base for reference. I'll bet there aren't
supposed to be threads in the holes. (Doesn't make sense mechanically to run
a bolt through one threaded hole and into another.)

I ended up messing up the thread in one of the
hole in the lower unit (the other three are fine). I don't know what
is the best way to deal with this. I will bring the lower unit to a
marine mechanic in this afternoon to see if he can help.

The standard way to fix something like that is with a heli-coil insert.
http://www.emhart.com/products/helicoil.asp