JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...
Call around to hardware stores and ask if they sell spiral screw
extractors.
Before you jump in the car, measure the diameter of the bolt shafts
you
need
to remove. And, if you know the socket size that fits the heads,
write
that
down too.

I tried that already. Either it didn't work or I went too easy on
the
hammer. Anyway, it could not grab the bolt and could not spin the
bolt
out. I attempted to drill one of the broken bolt away. But this
simply messed up the thread in one of the hole.

Hammer????????

Do you mean I am not supposed to use a hammer to work with the screw
extractor? I am under the impression that I am supposed to drill a
hole in the middle of the borken bolt, and hammer the screw extractor
down into the hole, and then use some kind of handle bar to lock on the
screw extractor and turn counter clockwise, and hopefully the screw
will back out. This was exactly what the owner of the hardware store
told me to do.

May be we are talking about two different types of screw extractors?
May be you are referring to the type that is like a drill bit, and we
are supposed to use it with a power drill (running in reverse) to dill
and back off the bolt? I could not use that type because the bolt was
sunken inside a small hole that the special drill bit was too large to
fit inside.

Jay Chan

This is the type I was talking about. No hammer is used. The flutes of
the
tool are deep enough that they grip without having to be forced into
place.
http://www.mytoolstore.com/hanson/extractr.html

Yes, the one that is being shown in your link is exactly the type that
I have. If I understand you correctly, I am not supposed to use a
hammer on it; instead, I should have used it with a power drill and use
the extractor like a drill bit and run it in reverse. In other words,
the hardware store owner fooled me. Oh well...

Thanks for the correction.

Jay Chan


NO! You DO NOT use a drill! You drill into the bolt to make a space for this
tool. Then, you give the drill to your wife and instruct her not to let you
have it again until you're ready to drill the next bolt. I don't care WHAT
the hardware guy told you. If this is the tool you bought, he gave you the
wrong instructions. And, if this tool came in its original package, AND you
opened it carefully, you still have the instructions.

Maybe your web browser options have been set to make simple instructions
invisible. Here's what I saw at that link:

How to use a Screw Extractor to remove a broken bolt or screw from a hole:
First, drill a hole in the broken bolt. The correct drill size to use is
shown below and is also stamped on each Screw Extractor. Insert Screw
Extractor in the hole and, with a Tap Wrench, turn counterclockwise. The
Screw Extractor acts like a corkscrew. It grips into the sides of the
drilled hole and removes the broken part on its own threads without damaging
the threaded hole.

OK, now I know that I am not supposed to use it like a drill bit, and I
am supposed to use the tap-wrench. In other words, the hardware store
owner gave me the correct instruction. There must be something missing
in the "execution".

Jay Chan

Gene Kearns wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:12:14 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:



NO! You DO NOT use a drill! You drill into the bolt to make a space for
this
tool. Then, you give the drill to your wife and instruct her not to let
you
have it again until you're ready to drill the next bolt. I don't care WHAT
the hardware guy told you. If this is the tool you bought, he gave you the
wrong instructions. And, if this tool came in its original package, AND
you
opened it carefully, you still have the instructions.


Ok, Jay..... stop. Take a deep breath and THINK about what you are
doing.

1) First and most important thing is to READ *all* of the
instructions. Next, don't do *ANYTHING* until you *UNDERSTAND* the
instructions.

2)Second thing is that you need to realize how important it is to
develop a *feel* for what you are doing. To even suggest putting a
screw extractor into a drill screams the fact that you have no
understanding of the tactile feedback involved in the job. An
experienced mechanic doesn't strip bolts because he knows how removing
one should *feel*. This is the next thing you need to explore... or
you are constantly going to be fixing things that you have broken....
and you are constantly going to be breaking things.....
--

And Jay....if and when you respond to this message, and mine (before
Gene's), please do not mention the motor, or who's fixing it now. That'll
just clutter this branch of the discussion. Let's deal with your approach to
this particular tool. It's important.

den wrote:
Finally, a copy of the Mercury Service Manual arrived last night.

AWWWW! had to go and spoil all the guessin' fun by goin to the book!
Well good for you! At least you got to where you wanted to be. As for
the hogged out hole, this looks like an opportunity for "JBWeld to step
up to the plate. Clean the daylights out of that hole, I mean REALLY
clean it! Mix up enough of the A part, and B part to fill up the entire
threaded hole. (from your description it goes entirely thru the
casting?) if so that is great. Working from the BACK side of the
casting will guide you. After the JB sets drill in the EXACT CENTER
with a small pilot drill, 1/8 or smaller, then when satisfied you have
a good center, drill with the tap drill taking all the time you need. A
drill press would be handy for the previous steps. Hand tap then,
backing out very often, and try to pick up the original threads.
Carefully run your tap thru. As an afterthought somewhere I have LO
temp ALUMINUM stick, that I tried to use to plug a tank hole
unsuccesfully. Did melt the stick, but I did not have enough heat to
have it fuse to the sheet. Was using a propane torch. With your
casating you might have a similar problem. If there are better ways to
recover from the situation, we will soon hear about them. maybe
another member has a better recommendation

Den 48tfYF

I have brought the lower unit to a marine mechanic, and he will use a
coil insert to repair the messed-up-threaded hole. Thanks anyway.

Hopefully, someone else has a similar problem will be able to take
advantage of your suggestion.

Jay Chan

wrote in message
ups.com...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...
Call around to hardware stores and ask if they sell spiral screw
extractors.
Before you jump in the car, measure the diameter of the bolt
shafts
you
need
to remove. And, if you know the socket size that fits the heads,
write
that
down too.

I tried that already. Either it didn't work or I went too easy
on
the
hammer. Anyway, it could not grab the bolt and could not spin
the
bolt
out. I attempted to drill one of the broken bolt away. But this
simply messed up the thread in one of the hole.

Hammer????????

Do you mean I am not supposed to use a hammer to work with the screw
extractor? I am under the impression that I am supposed to drill a
hole in the middle of the borken bolt, and hammer the screw
extractor
down into the hole, and then use some kind of handle bar to lock on
the
screw extractor and turn counter clockwise, and hopefully the screw
will back out. This was exactly what the owner of the hardware
store
told me to do.

May be we are talking about two different types of screw extractors?
May be you are referring to the type that is like a drill bit, and
we
are supposed to use it with a power drill (running in reverse) to
dill
and back off the bolt? I could not use that type because the bolt
was
sunken inside a small hole that the special drill bit was too large
to
fit inside.

Jay Chan

This is the type I was talking about. No hammer is used. The flutes of
the
tool are deep enough that they grip without having to be forced into
place.
http://www.mytoolstore.com/hanson/extractr.html

Yes, the one that is being shown in your link is exactly the type that
I have. If I understand you correctly, I am not supposed to use a
hammer on it; instead, I should have used it with a power drill and use
the extractor like a drill bit and run it in reverse. In other words,
the hardware store owner fooled me. Oh well...

Thanks for the correction.

Jay Chan


NO! You DO NOT use a drill! You drill into the bolt to make a space for
this
tool. Then, you give the drill to your wife and instruct her not to let
you
have it again until you're ready to drill the next bolt. I don't care
WHAT
the hardware guy told you. If this is the tool you bought, he gave you
the
wrong instructions. And, if this tool came in its original package, AND
you
opened it carefully, you still have the instructions.

Maybe your web browser options have been set to make simple instructions
invisible. Here's what I saw at that link:

How to use a Screw Extractor to remove a broken bolt or screw from a
hole:
First, drill a hole in the broken bolt. The correct drill size to use is
shown below and is also stamped on each Screw Extractor. Insert Screw
Extractor in the hole and, with a Tap Wrench, turn counterclockwise. The
Screw Extractor acts like a corkscrew. It grips into the sides of the
drilled hole and removes the broken part on its own threads without
damaging
the threaded hole.

OK, now I know that I am not supposed to use it like a drill bit, and I
am supposed to use the tap-wrench. In other words, the hardware store
owner gave me the correct instruction. There must be something missing
in the "execution".

Jay Chan


These tools come in various sizes. This is why I told you to measure the
size of the hole you drilled into the bolt, write that down, and take the
piece of paper to the store. On the back of the tool's package, there's a
chart which tells you what size tool to use with different hole sizes. With
the correct size, you put the tool in the hole and with no more force than
you can apply with your fingertips, you'll feel it grab tight when you turn
it counterclockwise. That's opposite from the direction traveled by the
hands of a clock. If the tool doesn't grab right away, you can put a little
pressure on it with your hand and turn it again. Then, you grab the square
top with a wrench and turn counterclockwise.

JimH wrote:
wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
Ernest Scribbler wrote:
"Clams Canino" wrote
I wanna know how you broke *three*.
I mean - after you broke one... didn't a clue rake at least try to hit you
over the head about the rest of them?

Not to jump on the jump-on-Jay bandwagon (he's got enough trouble with his
broken bolts already), but wasn't he the guy who asked what the difference
is between foot pounds and inch pounds a while back?

Good Lord, give him credit for trying to do his own work. So he makes
expensive mistakes, I bet he learns from them. I have managed to break
5 drill bits in rapid succession.
Now, If I remember, there are special tools for removing broken bits or
taps. I suggest he look into a tool catalogue such as McMaster-Carr or
MSC.

I have several tiny hardened end mills from MSC. They are no wider
than a screwdriver blade and cost about $20 each and I have used them
for such tasks to get down into a bolt hole (using the dremel tool) to
make a screwdriver slot. You can also use the tiny diamond burr with
th dremel to make a "dent" atop the broken bolt for the drill bit to
start on when you drill it out.

Yes, I used the Dremel tool with a diamond grind bit to form a slot on
top of one of the broken bolt, and I used a screw driver to remove that
bolt -- successfully.

But this didn't work for another two bolts that were sunk inside the
holes. The pointy grinding bit simply could not have a good angle of
attack on the bolt surface. What ended up happening was that the two
ends of the slot were slightly lower than the center of the slot and
this weakened the slot. When I used the screw driver to turn the bolt,
I ended up stripping the slot.

But this is kind of behind me now. As mentioned in my another reply, I
found an easy way to remove the broken bolts by simply removing the
water pump base, and this allowed the broken bolts to show up in the
open, and I used a channellock piler to remove the broken bolts.

Nice to talk with you.

Jay Chan

Glad to hear you worked it out Jay.

Thanks for your kind words.

Jay Chan

On 27 Oct 2006 06:56:13 -0700, "
wrote:

Yes, this is exactly what the marine mechanic proposed to me when I
brought the lower unit to his store. One question that I would like to
ask you: Do we need to re-apply the heli-coil insert whenever we
replace the bolt (like when we need to replace the impeller)?

Quoting from he

http://www.emhart.com/products/helicoil/standard.asp

"Screw-Lock Inserts positively secure threaded members against
loosening caused by vibration and shock. They have a high reusable
factor due to the exclusive HELI-COIL Resilient Screw-Lock which
permits frequent removal and reassembly of bolt without appreciable,
loss of torque."

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
s.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...
Clams Canino wrote:
I wanna know how you broke *three*.
I mean - after you broke one... didn't a clue rake at least try to hit
you
over the head about the rest of them?

Actually, I could have broken all four -- instead of merely three. I
must have come to my sense when I was bearing down on the 4th bolt.

I have a tendency to over-doing anything (such as running my knee to
the point that I needed to have a surgery done on my knee). And
tightening up the bolts too much is one of my tendency. That was the
reason why I bought a torque wrench hoping that using the torque wrench
will prevent me from over-torquing the bolts. Unfortunately, I mistook
60-inch-pounds with 60-feet-pounds, and I ended up over-torquing the
bolts by 12 times. And the fact that the torque wrench that I use is
quite big (designed more for higher torque such as for torquing the
propeller); therefore, I didn't get a good feel of the tension. I have
ordered a 1/4" torque wrench that is designed for lower torque (such as
60-inch-pounds); hopefully, this will prevent me from making a similar
mistake.

Jay Chan


1/4" for 60 ft lbs.....hang on a minute. Who makes a 1/4" drive wrench
with
60 *FOOT* lbs in its range?

INCH-pounds.


OK. I mis-readulated it.

That's just not exceptablized.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...
Gene Kearns wrote:
snip...

This is a *BIG* hot button for me, but this is endemic of no longer
teaching real Industrial Arts in our public schools. Higher education,
from mechanic programs, to engineering programs, to medical programs
all suffer from incoming students that have, in too many cases, never
even held a tool in their hands..... and in almost all cases, save
some rural areas, lack any real experience in using tools or in
dealing with the logic required of fixing everyday items that need
repair or adjustment.....
--

You got that right!
When my two sons were in jr high, they had to take homemaking courses
half
the year and shop the other half. The pc crowd decided that the girls
whould have equal time hammering, cutting etc. while the boys learned
baking, etc.
I don't mind if the girls want to take shop, but don't force the boys
to be Suzy Homemaker unless they want to.

So you figure the women will be the kitchen slave. Not much more
pathetic
than a guy who has to go to Burger King because he can not cook anything!

He didn't say anything like that. You just can't read can you? Did you
know that Homemaking courses teach a lot more than cooking? Do you
realize that Don never said anything like "women will be the kitchen
slave"? Do you realize that Don never said a man shouldn't know how to
cook?


Don *did* say something about "girlie men", though. Quite a few male chefs
would've had him hoisted onto the chopping block within seconds of hearing
that nonsense.

I know one that is a friend of mine who certainly would. He's another
black belt! Oh, and he makes a mean grilled tuna, too!

He didn't say anything like that. You just can't read can you? Did you
know that Homemaking courses teach a lot more than cooking? Do you
realize that Don never said anything like "women will be the kitchen
slave"? Do you realize that Don never said a man shouldn't know how to
cook?



I learned a bunch of useful stuff in home-ec back in Jr. High. One of
which was learning to sew, which has come in handy for automotive and
marine upholstery. I'm a good cook too, though most of that I learned on
my own.

Sure I still found shop class and welding to be more interesting, but
both were useful.

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:Emt0h.26$B44.16@trndny07...


He didn't say anything like that. You just can't read can you? Did you
know that Homemaking courses teach a lot more than cooking? Do you
realize that Don never said anything like "women will be the kitchen
slave"? Do you realize that Don never said a man shouldn't know how to
cook?



I learned a bunch of useful stuff in home-ec back in Jr. High. One of
which was learning to sew, which has come in handy for automotive and
marine upholstery. I'm a good cook too, though most of that I learned on
my own.

Sure I still found shop class and welding to be more interesting, but both
were useful.

I learned to sew, type, cook, wash and iron clothes and a few other things
in Uncle Sam's Canoe Club.

Eisboch